RE: TVR Speed Six Design Spec Upgrade

[CTE]

Why not fit an LS1 or a later variation, with or without a few simple mods? 100,000 miles between services!! Why did`nt TVR do this in the first place??! Were they on an ego trip?? whats the matter with people?

[JR]

900T-R said:

CiderwithCerbie said:

Ummm, even if this is all true (for which we don't have objective evidence one way or the other) - does anyone really fancy driving a 500bhp Tuscan?!?

No, not a Mk1 at least... but then the Saggy has often been reported about as something that could use an extra bit of oomph...

Isn't Speed Eight driving with a Tuscan with 650bhp?

[900T-R]

CTE said:

100,000 miles between services!!

Excluding oil changes - in reality this means that the scheduled replacement interval for spark plugs and air filter is 100,000 miles (it has a chain driven cam and hydraulic tappets as well, so no worries there). Nice piece of marketing, but not much else. You wouldn't want to drive any kind of sports car 100,000 miles between services even if the engine were sealed for life.

[Zippee]

CTE said:

Why not fit an LS1 or a later variation, with or without a few simple mods? 100,000 miles between services!! Why did`nt TVR do this in the first place??! Were they on an ego trip?? whats the matter with people?

Thats the route I'm going to seriously consider if/when mine gives up the ghost (hopefully no time soon). Steve Heath already has one in a Cerb and I believe he can do this in the T350.

[muncie]

900T-R said:

tegwin said:

Amazing stuff... but why would you spend that much money to still have an engine that is not ever going to be 100% reliable when you could just pop a BMW straight 6 straight in, spend some money tuning it and pocket the change!

Uhm, any idea what a 500+ bhp N/A BMW straight six would cost - and how many miles it would go between rebuilds? IIRC they had a bit of a mission getting it to 365 for the CSL...

i was interested to see if anyone had dropped the e46 engine in a tvr - didnt find anything on pistonheads...

Anyone heard of it?
Hard job?

Cheers

[dvs_dave]

VerySideways said:

Mr Whippy said:

Why can't they just do a 4.0 one that doesn't break, with about 400bhp?

+1

Beacuse there's already a well established supply of these from TVR Power and the like. I know as I've got a Power's rebuild Tuscan S that does 340 rwhp which is near as damn it 400 bhp at the fly.

One thing that none of these engine builders have in common with MCD is that they're not actual proper engine design and development houses.

As for a BMW engine, why bother? They're huge heavy expensive lumps for a start and you've got Weissman if you're that bothered.

[300bhp/ton]

I'm impressed, was expecting to see £20-25,000 for the engine

Have to say, if its true and works then it's not such a bad deal.

Of course you could look at a LS1 and have more HP for less work, but its not quite the same thing.

[Tvr Power]

Lucozade said:

For comparison, feel free to update as necessary:

Melling:

2 year warranty
4.5 : £9775
4.7 : £10925

TVR Power:

2 year unlimited warranty
rebuild: £6462.50
4.3 : £9200.03

Racing Green: FFF design



STR8:

All std rebuilds have:

1 yr unlimited mileage warranty top end rebuilds £3000 + vat
2 yrs unlimited mileage warranty £4500 + vat cheapest option for full engine rebuilds
3 yrs unlimited mileage warranty £4500 + vat
5 yrs unlimited mileage warranty £7999 + vat

includes engine out/in drive away

Dom

[johnbear]

PhantomPH said:

Podie said:

PhantomPH said:

Whilst that sounds great, nearly £11k for the full business is a LOT of money.

Agreed. Makes me wonder if TVR would have been better adding circa £8-10k per vehicle to give better reliability...

In reality, wouldn't it really only be about £3k to the cost of the vehicle?? Remove/lower the profit percentage that melling will be taken, plus the engine removal/labour costs (the engine has to be built still) and you are only talking about machining and material differences.

ETA - I was under the impression that TVR changed the design in order to avoid paying Melling rights money...or something like that.

Edited by PhantomPH on Tuesday 12th May 11:48

After speaking to many involved with TVR and former Melling staff , I was lead to understand that the design changed because the original 5 engines supplied seized after 15 mins on idle whilst on the dyno at TVR. The engine required considerable work by John Ravenscroft make the design work. Melling disputed reliability etc and this lead to court action. If you talk to many of the key figures involved with TVR engine rebuilds and who were involved at the time of the SP6 development, the story seems the same.

[900T-R]

dvs_dave said:

As for a BMW engine, why bother? They're huge heavy expensive lumps for a start and you've got Weissman if you're that bothered.

Wiesmann to be precise

[Tvr Power]

johnbear said:

PhantomPH said:

Podie said:

PhantomPH said:

Whilst that sounds great, nearly £11k for the full business is a LOT of money.

Agreed. Makes me wonder if TVR would have been better adding circa £8-10k per vehicle to give better reliability...

In reality, wouldn't it really only be about £3k to the cost of the vehicle?? Remove/lower the profit percentage that melling will be taken, plus the engine removal/labour costs (the engine has to be built still) and you are only talking about machining and material differences.

ETA - I was under the impression that TVR changed the design in order to avoid paying Melling rights money...or something like that.

Edited by PhantomPH on Tuesday 12th May 11:48

After speaking to many involved with TVR and former Melling staff , I was lead to understand that the design changed because the original 5 engines supplied seized after 15 mins on idle whilst on the dyno at TVR. The engine required considerable work by John Ravenscroft make the design work. Melling disputed reliability etc and this lead to court action. If you talk to many of the key figures involved with TVR engine rebuilds and who were involved at the time of the SP6 development, the story seems the same.

When i decide to retire i will write the true story and history of Tvr, any orders

Dom

[muncie]

dvs_dave said:

VerySideways said:

Mr Whippy said:

Why can't they just do a 4.0 one that doesn't break, with about 400bhp?

+1

Beacuse there's already a well established supply of these from TVR Power and the like. I know as I've got a Power's rebuild Tuscan S that does 340 rwhp which is near as damn it 400 bhp at the fly.

One thing that none of these engine builders have in common with MCD is that they're not actual proper engine design and development houses.

As for a BMW engine, why bother? They're huge heavy expensive lumps for a start and you've got Weissman if you're that bothered.

re BMW engines though - the e46 m3 engine is an absolute screamer though isn't it? 8k rev limit - reliable and if you pull one out of a salvaged beemer then it would make financal sense wouldn't it?

Wouldnt sound as good as a speed six on full chat though!

[RichardD]

300bhp/ton said:

I'm impressed, was expecting to see £20-25,000 for the engine

Have to say, if its true and works then it's not such a bad deal.

Of course you could look at a LS1 and have more HP for less work, but its not quite the same thing.

I don't believe "less work" certainly in the context of a SP6 engined TVR (forgetting the Cerb)...

Have a read here:-

http://www.pistonheads.com/Gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

[BlueEyedBoy]

muncie said:

dvs_dave said:

VerySideways said:

Mr Whippy said:

Why can't they just do a 4.0 one that doesn't break, with about 400bhp?

+1

Beacuse there's already a well established supply of these from TVR Power and the like. I know as I've got a Power's rebuild Tuscan S that does 340 rwhp which is near as damn it 400 bhp at the fly.

One thing that none of these engine builders have in common with MCD is that they're not actual proper engine design and development houses.

As for a BMW engine, why bother? They're huge heavy expensive lumps for a start and you've got Weissman if you're that bothered.

re BMW engines though - the e46 m3 engine is an absolute screamer though isn't it? 8k rev limit - reliable and if you pull one out of a salvaged beemer then it would make financal sense wouldn't it?

Wouldnt sound as good as a speed six on full chat though!

And as discussed many times before, it would no longer be a true TVR but more a kit car

If they managed to get the costs of these down, I would consider picking up an Cerbera Speed 6 and getting this work done.

[Mr Whippy]

dvs_dave said:

VerySideways said:

Mr Whippy said:

Why can't they just do a 4.0 one that doesn't break, with about 400bhp?

+1

Beacuse there's already a well established supply of these from TVR Power and the like. I know as I've got a Power's rebuild Tuscan S that does 340 rwhp which is near as damn it 400 bhp at the fly.

One thing that none of these engine builders have in common with MCD is that they're not actual proper engine design and development houses.

Shirley Melling would be worth doing something in the oem power range though, just so they have a complete range of engines from oe power to big power, all that won't break.

Either way, as long as you can get a good rebuild for the originals then fairy muff, just seems odd that Melling hasn't aimed a re-specced "what it should have been from new" engine in for owners who might be on their first rebuild and want the best one going, but no more power. Afterall, Melling seem to be the ones in the know for getting this engine good (seem being the operative word for now I suppose)

Red Rose Tammy is still on my list of want to owns, and if I could get one with a fine engine in it, then all the more likely it is to happen

[JR]

muncie said:

I was interested to see if anyone had dropped the e46 engine in a tvr - didnt find anything on pistonheads...

Look harder. RT did that quite a few years ago.

[s5tvr]

Mellings engine options sound attractive, but until one is in a car with some miles under its belt I remain sceptical. Also, I suspect 500+ bhp is too much power for any of the SP6 cars to handle without spending more on drivetrain and suspension upgrades. Whoever thought Mellings quoted prices were expensive I think is off the mark if the quoted power figures are correct. As an example RG's FFF option would seem to give little extra power for similar money i.e. c£9+k. Powers option at c£9.5k with a 5 year warranty to me looks much better value than RG's solution.

As for engine transplants, they're ok if you don't mind losing originality and replacing the heart and soul of the car.

[300bhp/ton]

RichardD said:

300bhp/ton said:

I'm impressed, was expecting to see £20-25,000 for the engine

Have to say, if its true and works then it's not such a bad deal.

Of course you could look at a LS1 and have more HP for less work, but its not quite the same thing.

I don't believe "less work" certainly in the context of a SP6 engined TVR (forgetting the Cerb)...

Have a read here:-

http://www.pistonheads.com/Gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

Ta. Although was meaning less 'engine' work or at least cheaper.

[Phatbenito]

I always wonder how one would stand with respect to insurance after getting bespoke work such as this done?

[300bhp/ton]

Phatbenito said:

I always wonder how one would stand with respect to insurance after getting bespoke work such as this done?

Depends on the insurance company at hand, but I can't see it being a problem. Plenty of other modified cars on the roads and a TVR is no different.