RE: A Caterham For All Seasons: R300 Vs Roadsport 175
Discussion
wakster said:
Are westfield's offerings noticeably inferior? Or is the caterham pricing just ambitious?
Bit of both, really. Caterhams are nicely built and detailed and the kit is developed to the point where the car will work well even when bolted together by relative idiots, but they are not that much better than Westfield and, undeniably, are pretty over-priced.
Part of this is simply down to Caterham wanting to fleece every little bit of value from customers buying into the 'brand image' and spurious 'originality'. But - to be fair - they're not helped by the fact that just about every single component is outsourced, so you're paying (at least) two lots of profit margin on everything. Basically, Caterham Cars is just a big Parts counter, whereas Westfield does at least make some major elements of their cars themselves, in-house.
I'm largely inclined to agree with Sam on that one, but whatever the reason the status quo doesn't seem like changing - the outlay for a Caterham should still see a reasonable return in a few years.
I get the impression the resale value for a nearly new, high-spec Westie isn't quite as good. That's the only real reason I went in the Caterham direction - for the same performance I'd have been looking at a Westfield somewhat earlier in its depreciation curve. Plus parts supply is rumoured to be better, albeit at a cost, and if all else fails there are companies approximating to dealers who'll sort it out for you.
That's my personal take on it. Arguably the initial price difference is excessive for the actual difference in what you're purchasing, but that margin will still be the same (if not wider) when you come to sell it.
I get the impression the resale value for a nearly new, high-spec Westie isn't quite as good. That's the only real reason I went in the Caterham direction - for the same performance I'd have been looking at a Westfield somewhat earlier in its depreciation curve. Plus parts supply is rumoured to be better, albeit at a cost, and if all else fails there are companies approximating to dealers who'll sort it out for you.
That's my personal take on it. Arguably the initial price difference is excessive for the actual difference in what you're purchasing, but that margin will still be the same (if not wider) when you come to sell it.
Re your concise but spot on Caterham review. I've had 6 911's, 3 TVR's, 4 XK's, and 5 Caterhams (including 2 Lotus 7 S2)I presently drive a 348 cab Ferrari and a Ducati Multistrada. Nothing, but nothing, compares to the pure joy of driving achieved in the Caterham. Practical? no not really, comfortable? sort of, economical? if you drive like grandma, should you buy one? absolutely!! I'm just in process of ordering my 6th (a Roadsport 175 SV) ........... and I'm 63!! Great overal website - perfect for pistonheads of all ages.
Question for those of you that have driven them........
Is the 1.4 105bhp Caterham fast enough to have fun in?
I drive a AMG CLK a a daily driver but fancy a weekend and track toy and with the samller engine can get away with putting it through as a company car without getting hammered on the tax.
But will it feel slow after the Merc?
Cheers
Is the 1.4 105bhp Caterham fast enough to have fun in?
I drive a AMG CLK a a daily driver but fancy a weekend and track toy and with the samller engine can get away with putting it through as a company car without getting hammered on the tax.
But will it feel slow after the Merc?
Cheers
I've driven a 1.6 133bhp Superlight on-track, and because of the gearbox it's got more than enough acceleration to keep up with the "normal" driver's cars (hot hatches, Elises etc.) up to ~100mph - even with 2 people in the car you're talking ~200bhp/ton or more, which is ballpark same as an S2000 or a 986-model Boxster-S.
I also test-drove a 150bhp Roadsport on-road and found I didn't need/want to use all the revs for half of the test-drive.
...so depends what you're after. 105bhp in a car which is ~600kg with driver and fuel will probably be enough, but you'd need to use it all. Something with ~120-150bhp will be very nice on-road and have plenty of power.
I also test-drove a 150bhp Roadsport on-road and found I didn't need/want to use all the revs for half of the test-drive.
...so depends what you're after. 105bhp in a car which is ~600kg with driver and fuel will probably be enough, but you'd need to use it all. Something with ~120-150bhp will be very nice on-road and have plenty of power.
"Feel slow" ? No. Particularly if you get rid of the windscreen and fit aeroscreens.
100mph in a windscreenless seven feels like warp factor 9. Whereas 155mph in large german metal can feel tame. Which is the point, if you have 500 miles to do !
It is still 200bhp/tonne, which is not to be sniffed at.
You will notice the lack of bhp on track however, "just" 110mph (plus a cheeky bit if you ditch the screens) can be frustrating on some circuits. No less fun, perhaps more so, as you really need to maintain speed in corners.
I once had a lunchtime "I'll show you mine if you show me yours" with a work colleague. He had a very quick Imprezza. We hacked around the Kent countryside for a while in the Scooby, very impressive. Then I took him out in my 7 with just 135bhp and no windscreen. He screamed like a girl that he couldn't breathe, and that I was going too fast and should slow down. In fact I never even got close to the speeds he was doing (all within the speed limit, clearly). All down to perception.
100mph in a windscreenless seven feels like warp factor 9. Whereas 155mph in large german metal can feel tame. Which is the point, if you have 500 miles to do !
It is still 200bhp/tonne, which is not to be sniffed at.
You will notice the lack of bhp on track however, "just" 110mph (plus a cheeky bit if you ditch the screens) can be frustrating on some circuits. No less fun, perhaps more so, as you really need to maintain speed in corners.
I once had a lunchtime "I'll show you mine if you show me yours" with a work colleague. He had a very quick Imprezza. We hacked around the Kent countryside for a while in the Scooby, very impressive. Then I took him out in my 7 with just 135bhp and no windscreen. He screamed like a girl that he couldn't breathe, and that I was going too fast and should slow down. In fact I never even got close to the speeds he was doing (all within the speed limit, clearly). All down to perception.
noclue said:
Question for those of you that have driven them........
Is the 1.4 105bhp Caterham fast enough to have fun in?
I drive a AMG CLK a a daily driver but fancy a weekend and track toy and with the samller engine can get away with putting it through as a company car without getting hammered on the tax.
But will it feel slow after the Merc?
Cheers
Although big power and big speeds aren't really the point of Seven ownership, the 1.4 K is a bit feeble and you'll get roasted by hot hatches off the lights (if that matters to you.) If you're going to go to the expense of buying a Seven, which lets face it is a pure luxury and something you buy purely for driving plesaure, you're probably going to limit your enjoyment of it by going for the slowest Seven available.Is the 1.4 105bhp Caterham fast enough to have fun in?
I drive a AMG CLK a a daily driver but fancy a weekend and track toy and with the samller engine can get away with putting it through as a company car without getting hammered on the tax.
But will it feel slow after the Merc?
Cheers
You'll still have sweet handling of course but pedalling it fast will be all about conserving momentum and you aren't going to be inducing power oversteer anywhere except on ice.....
I've picked up the impression that Caterham have sold hardly any 1.4 K-Series cars over the years and its only on the price list to give them a lower entry price point "Sevens start from just £12k" or whatever it is now.
The lions share of road car sales are 140bhp K-series i believe (or 150bhp Sigma now they've changed to Ford?) but the Academy,Roadsport A and Roadsport B race series all use 120bhp cars so that might be 'enough' shove for you.
To some extent it is also down to the driver, I have been on track days, in Sevens which just had the 100hp vauxhall engine, with someone who knew what they were doing behind the wheel (Not me!) we were going round with two Lamborghinis, which would blow past like we were stopped on the straights, but through the bends we caught them up hand over fist, and went by them (Although half the people in the seven just did not believe we were going to get round at those speeds!) at the end of 5 laps the Lambos were the same distance apart from us that they had been at the start.
I've only just read this. I'm currently on my 3rd 7 and could not be without one now. You simply cannot explain the sensory overload that you get each time you drive one of these, especially on a clear A / B road.
There's nothing that will touch it on twisty roads with a nice mixture of straights. I've had pals with tvrs, porsches, and ferraris following and trying to keep up and I end up pulling over and having to wait for them after 10 - 15 minutes. They simply can't get their immense power down whereas I can use my full rev range and all my power and watch as they drift further and further into the distance behind me with each bend.
Every petrolhead should own one in their lifetime. Oh and depreciation, what depreciation? I don't think there is a better way to protect any savings that you maybe lucky enough to have in the bank, after all you're not getting any interest on it. So invest it in a 7, minimum of 135 bhp for some proper fun.
You're only here once after all!!
There's nothing that will touch it on twisty roads with a nice mixture of straights. I've had pals with tvrs, porsches, and ferraris following and trying to keep up and I end up pulling over and having to wait for them after 10 - 15 minutes. They simply can't get their immense power down whereas I can use my full rev range and all my power and watch as they drift further and further into the distance behind me with each bend.
Every petrolhead should own one in their lifetime. Oh and depreciation, what depreciation? I don't think there is a better way to protect any savings that you maybe lucky enough to have in the bank, after all you're not getting any interest on it. So invest it in a 7, minimum of 135 bhp for some proper fun.
You're only here once after all!!
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