RE: Driven: Corvette ZR-1
Discussion
forzaminardi said:
Hmmn, I take your point on the 300SL but it doesn't qualify in my opinion. As you say, it's a subjective thing. An AC Cobra definitely isn't a supercar, a GT40 ticks many boxes but is basically a racing car so i'd say no in the end.
We'll never agree.Edited by Dagnut on Tuesday 1st September 10:03
300bhp/ton said:
forzaminardi said:
The point is that I don't really think the Corvette, or any of the cars pictured above, are supercars. They may well be super cars, but not supercars. There's no hard and fast rule, but I tend to think a 'supercar' should have a mid-engine. Doesn't really matter in my opinion, its still one of my favourite cars whatever you want to call it.
The only thing with this view, is what before the Miura would you consider a supercar? And what exacly are are all these other cars with the engines in different places; Ferrari 599, Aston Vanquish, McLaren SLR and so on.LongLiveTazio said:
LuS1fer said:
I had a 2005 Civic Type R and the quality of the plastics was equally dire. My sister has a BM 316 and the interior is cheap. But they don't cost £100k.
But they cost more than other cars in their class. The Corvette doesn't...Er, Civics are pricier than Vauxhalls, Fords, etc. and hold their value way better. If you look at the Jazz it is the priciest supermini yet the plastic quality is pretty terrible and they now build them in China rather than Japan.
Comparing the ZR-1 with a 599 is fine: the Corvette is quicker. Just keep in mind that it costs half as much, so if you wanted it retrimmed then it really wouldn't make much of a dent. As before, Pratt & Miller supply excellent seats made by Lear IIRC. Or just buy a P&M C6RS, which is still cheaper...
Comparing the ZR-1 with a 599 is fine: the Corvette is quicker. Just keep in mind that it costs half as much, so if you wanted it retrimmed then it really wouldn't make much of a dent. As before, Pratt & Miller supply excellent seats made by Lear IIRC. Or just buy a P&M C6RS, which is still cheaper...
Both the ZR1 and the Viper have functional, low rent interiors. However, the focus of each car is driving performance, not creature comforts. That's especially the case with the Viper because the Vette can be driven everyday.
However, GM has stepped up to the bar and offers an interior upgrade package. This option covers most of the interior surfaces in leather. Also, there are aftermarket offerings that rival any interior from Ferrari or Lamborghini. Unfortunately, you still have the hard plastics.
In the case of the Viper you can order a custom interior from the factory too. This option isn't well known and isn't advertised. If you tick the right box Chrysler partner, Prefix, can design a custom interior via their 1 of 1 Viper Program.
Originally, Prefix was tapped to paint the stripes on the Vipers. They have expanded their efforts to designing custom Vipers including special striping, exterior paint and interiors. In fact, they'll paint your Viper whatever color you want. http://www.prefix.com/1of1/
I believe you'll see improved interiors coming from the Americans in the future. Both Buick and Cadillac are turning out new cars with great interiors. The new CTS-V has a nice interior.
I believe the next generation Vette's interior will be a marked improvement over the C6 if GM survives these trying times. If FIAT is truly going to continue the Viper I'm sure we'll see its interior improve too. Soon journos and critics won't be distracted by the Corvette's interior and they can focus on performance.
However, GM has stepped up to the bar and offers an interior upgrade package. This option covers most of the interior surfaces in leather. Also, there are aftermarket offerings that rival any interior from Ferrari or Lamborghini. Unfortunately, you still have the hard plastics.
In the case of the Viper you can order a custom interior from the factory too. This option isn't well known and isn't advertised. If you tick the right box Chrysler partner, Prefix, can design a custom interior via their 1 of 1 Viper Program.
Originally, Prefix was tapped to paint the stripes on the Vipers. They have expanded their efforts to designing custom Vipers including special striping, exterior paint and interiors. In fact, they'll paint your Viper whatever color you want. http://www.prefix.com/1of1/
I believe you'll see improved interiors coming from the Americans in the future. Both Buick and Cadillac are turning out new cars with great interiors. The new CTS-V has a nice interior.
I believe the next generation Vette's interior will be a marked improvement over the C6 if GM survives these trying times. If FIAT is truly going to continue the Viper I'm sure we'll see its interior improve too. Soon journos and critics won't be distracted by the Corvette's interior and they can focus on performance.
It depends on your approach. Do you do an Audi and get the interior right first and then work on the dynamics or do you get the power and dynamics as a first priority and then worry about the interior at a later date.
It's been 11 years since the C5 appeared and changed the face of the Corvette's dnamic abilities for the better. These things take time. The new CTS-V is a quantum leap over the 2004 Cadillac CTS-V and it's already challenging the M5 which has been around forever.
I think what galls most Euro manufacturers and buyers is the speed at which this turaround is being effected so picking on the interior is about the best they can manage.
It's been 11 years since the C5 appeared and changed the face of the Corvette's dnamic abilities for the better. These things take time. The new CTS-V is a quantum leap over the 2004 Cadillac CTS-V and it's already challenging the M5 which has been around forever.
I think what galls most Euro manufacturers and buyers is the speed at which this turaround is being effected so picking on the interior is about the best they can manage.
LuS1fer said:
I think what galls most Euro manufacturers and buyers is the speed at which this turaround is being effected so picking on the interior is about the best they can manage.
Definition of supercar according to me:
Looks: radical, marmite, some love it, some hate it. Whichever way you look at it, it should be identified easily and be able to twist the lookers neck as the car passes by!
powerplant: crazy power, crazy fuel consumption, crazy noise. onlookers must feel the power!
Price: should be a life long ambition for some, dream for others and plain jealousy creation for the masses.
respect: The car must be treated with respect or else it will spit you out to die. Not everyone with a drivers license should be able to drive it...only the most daring should be able to drive it, let alone tame it.
examples from 80's onwards
MC 12
F40
Diablo SV
Mclaren F1
Murcielago SV
Enzo
Zonda
CGT
I hope my interpretation of a supercar is sensible..in that light, I dont see a vette in the same league..let alone many of the current products being described as supercars. They have all been diluted to appeal to the masses.
Looks: radical, marmite, some love it, some hate it. Whichever way you look at it, it should be identified easily and be able to twist the lookers neck as the car passes by!
powerplant: crazy power, crazy fuel consumption, crazy noise. onlookers must feel the power!
Price: should be a life long ambition for some, dream for others and plain jealousy creation for the masses.
respect: The car must be treated with respect or else it will spit you out to die. Not everyone with a drivers license should be able to drive it...only the most daring should be able to drive it, let alone tame it.
examples from 80's onwards
MC 12
F40
Diablo SV
Mclaren F1
Murcielago SV
Enzo
Zonda
CGT
I hope my interpretation of a supercar is sensible..in that light, I dont see a vette in the same league..let alone many of the current products being described as supercars. They have all been diluted to appeal to the masses.
Wake Up !!! No contest, for £100k ish extreamly good, user friendly super car performance for a quarter of the dosh of the competition ???
Whittling on about the traction control button and the air vent grills ??
You will be too busy looking through the Head Up display on the screen, which, incidently Vettes have had since 1999... All cars should have that one..
Ps: the performance of the ZO6 Corvette is only a little under the ZR1 and you can pick one up for under 50K. Go over on the le-shuttle, spank it to southern Spain with 2 sets of golf clubs and all the trimmings. More to the gallon than a Range Rover.
Whittling on about the traction control button and the air vent grills ??
You will be too busy looking through the Head Up display on the screen, which, incidently Vettes have had since 1999... All cars should have that one..
Ps: the performance of the ZO6 Corvette is only a little under the ZR1 and you can pick one up for under 50K. Go over on the le-shuttle, spank it to southern Spain with 2 sets of golf clubs and all the trimmings. More to the gallon than a Range Rover.
Being simple they kept it light, which is already a good starting point. What I would do to it to make it a cult UK phenomenon is :-
1) Right hand drive
2) £80k
3) Get rid of the silly engine through the bonnet and do a matt black wrap.
4) 700bhp conversion as standard.
With the £ being 1.62 against the dollar the current price in the UK is about $170k which is silly compared to what it costs in the USA ($105k)
Regards
Andy
1) Right hand drive
2) £80k
3) Get rid of the silly engine through the bonnet and do a matt black wrap.
4) 700bhp conversion as standard.
With the £ being 1.62 against the dollar the current price in the UK is about $170k which is silly compared to what it costs in the USA ($105k)
Regards
Andy
From a former Yank owner of a Z06.
Fabulous, scary performance coupled with an equally nasty interior. I had a Scion xB which had better materials and feel than the Z06. The dash and door panels had what best can be described as a rubber basketball finish. Terrible to the touch and became milky white as time passes (but it could be cleaned off).
The typical rebuttal is "What do you expect for $80K?" Here's the rub, the $30K Chevy Malibu has a better interior than the Z06, and the $60K Cadillac CTS-V has a fabulous interior (design and materials).
As someone said, you do drive from the inside, and you're not always putting the hammer down so then you're left with that crappy interior. No matter the power, I finally couldn't stand it any more and had to buy something that made me happier. So I went with a used DB9. Now the power doesn't compare, but Oh Lordy the car makes you feel special. Every time you sit in that car the design and materials (and the smell) make the entire driving experience a special event. The Z06 wasn't.
Fabulous, scary performance coupled with an equally nasty interior. I had a Scion xB which had better materials and feel than the Z06. The dash and door panels had what best can be described as a rubber basketball finish. Terrible to the touch and became milky white as time passes (but it could be cleaned off).
The typical rebuttal is "What do you expect for $80K?" Here's the rub, the $30K Chevy Malibu has a better interior than the Z06, and the $60K Cadillac CTS-V has a fabulous interior (design and materials).
As someone said, you do drive from the inside, and you're not always putting the hammer down so then you're left with that crappy interior. No matter the power, I finally couldn't stand it any more and had to buy something that made me happier. So I went with a used DB9. Now the power doesn't compare, but Oh Lordy the car makes you feel special. Every time you sit in that car the design and materials (and the smell) make the entire driving experience a special event. The Z06 wasn't.
DB9VolanteDriver said:
From a former Yank owner of a Z06.
Fabulous, scary performance coupled with an equally nasty interior. I had a Scion xB which had better materials and feel than the Z06. The dash and door panels had what best can be described as a rubber basketball finish. Terrible to the touch and became milky white as time passes (but it could be cleaned off).
The typical rebuttal is "What do you expect for $80K?" Here's the rub, the $30K Chevy Malibu has a better interior than the Z06, and the $60K Cadillac CTS-V has a fabulous interior (design and materials).
As someone said, you do drive from the inside, and you're not always putting the hammer down so then you're left with that crappy interior. No matter the power, I finally couldn't stand it any more and had to buy something that made me happier. So I went with a used DB9. Now the power doesn't compare, but Oh Lordy the car makes you feel special. Every time you sit in that car the design and materials (and the smell) make the entire driving experience a special event. The Z06 wasn't.
The z06 was made long before GM got the "idea" of actually putting effort into the normal cars. They probably figured lets wait to redo the interior for the new model then for the zr-1 and drive up costs. From what I heard from reading the American magazines was a lot more has gone into this car mechanical wise then strapping on a supercharger and putting on a silly plastic engine cover. it has an new engine the LS9 which was developed for this car and is now in the CS-V as well. I am not sure on all the specifics but considering the economic crisis that was starting and GM was loosing money all this time it's pretty amazing. So if i was a possible customer and they asked me whether I wanted to have more money devoted to performance and handling or on a nicer interior i'd have the performance and handling.Fabulous, scary performance coupled with an equally nasty interior. I had a Scion xB which had better materials and feel than the Z06. The dash and door panels had what best can be described as a rubber basketball finish. Terrible to the touch and became milky white as time passes (but it could be cleaned off).
The typical rebuttal is "What do you expect for $80K?" Here's the rub, the $30K Chevy Malibu has a better interior than the Z06, and the $60K Cadillac CTS-V has a fabulous interior (design and materials).
As someone said, you do drive from the inside, and you're not always putting the hammer down so then you're left with that crappy interior. No matter the power, I finally couldn't stand it any more and had to buy something that made me happier. So I went with a used DB9. Now the power doesn't compare, but Oh Lordy the car makes you feel special. Every time you sit in that car the design and materials (and the smell) make the entire driving experience a special event. The Z06 wasn't.
Let's hope the next Z07/C7 addresses the choice of materials used within the current versions and they employ the same stylists that had a hand in the current Caddy CTS. Not only is the quality every bit as good as BMW but it looks and feels superb. Maybe then NO ONE with have anything to whinge about.
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