RE: McLaren MP4-12C Set For Take-Off

[correct]

The engine is NOT Mercedes! Its an LS7 (7.0 V8)

[Niffty951]

Gizmo! said:

Niffty951 said:

If they substituted the rare materials and no doubt ridiculously complex engineering designs for materials with 90% of the abilities/properties but which cost 10% of the price. If they used just a few more simple and traditional methods which work and don't need changing and stuck to a limited number of their favourite innovations then they could really seriously pull this off and produce a £75,000 entry level supercar that would sell like hot cakes! I’m certain of it!

Put a business case together than and start your own company. I'd be happy to see such a product, although I can't afford it myself.
McLaren have access to the market knowledge of one of the biggest groups in the world, certainly in the premium sector: Mercedes owns 40% of McLaren. I suspect that they know a few things about what people who have £150k to spend on a car might be looking for, and are looking for that niche.

As the man says... "Ah'm oot."

I'm sure they've researched it at length but it’s easy to persuade yourself that something will work if its what you want to believe. Big budget company or one man band historically they’ve all fallen in to the trap at some point. My point is that there are lots of would be car designs that could work but will never challenge the big boys like Porsche because.. well who's going to buy a car from someone they've never heard of with no pedigree when they could spend their hard earned on a Porsche?! Not me for one. Only a select few risk takers I would imagine.

Lotus have a great thing going with the Evora. Superb product, not far from perfectly placed but produced by a company who's long since been pigeonholed into a particular market by the masses and with an unexciting engine it'll never be a big competitor in the market that the Germans dominate.

..Now McLaren with no history of cars at this level, a name that makes the ears of any car nut prick up, a true racing pedigree and backed by established German engineering parts in a car honed by the best of British engineers... that really could work. £150,000 just puts it in the wrong bracket and reduces there market from (say) 30% of car enthusiasts to (say) 2%. Who in a normal well paid 9 to 5 job could afford a £150,000k car? £60-80k?? Takes dedication but some will and many more will dream at the possibility and want to.. this then makes it talked about, desirable and keeps it in the eyes of the public.

[dandarez]

150 grand?

Not what I'd say all Brit sports car fans are waiting for (possibly playboys and oil rich Saudis might be waiting for it but I'm not).

'I'm out' as they say.

Better to stick to saving nearly 130 grand and buy this new Brit instead from the Brit road/race car maker that's on a roll (and you ain't gotta wait 'til 2011 as it will be out early next year and you'll be able to race it as well.)

[Niffty951]

dandarez said:

150 grand?

Not what I'd say all Brit sports car fans are waiting for (possibly playboys and oil rich Saudis might be waiting for it but I'm not).

'I'm out' as they say.

Better to stick to saving nearly 130 grand and buy this new Brit instead from the Brit road/race car maker that's on a roll (and you ain't gotta wait 'til 2011 as it will be out early next year and you'll be able to race it as well.)

Is that the new Lotus concept? Looks a bit Marcos but that's never a bad thing.

[dandarez]

No.

Lotus's old adversary (if you know your sports car history).

Edited by dandarez on Monday 7th September 14:53

[cathalm]

I'm really quite excited about this. Just read the Times article as well. I don't knwo why some of you are moaning, except maybe to follow the PH flow as it has been for awhile. If you read the detail of reports you will see that they are planning 2 more cars, a new F1 and yes, a direct 911 rival. this car is intended to build the brand by offering true supercar performance whilst not landing in the Zonda, Koenigsegg space. Yes, 150k is expensive, but it compares favourably to a DBS, a 599 or a Murcielago, even a well specced Gallardo.

Take a chill pill folks thsi is really great news for British car fans and all performance car enthusiasts, the more financially accessible car is coming later.

[Established 1984]

dandarez said:

No.

Lotus's old adversary (if you know your sports car history).

Edited by dandarez on Monday 7th September 14:53

Looks very Ginetta like to me. And a little like a Bristol Fighter

Edited by Established 1984 on Monday 7th September 15:00

[correct]

Abe Froman said:

Can't help thinking that after seeing that Beemer concept last week that the design of this 'needs' be something special, but looking at the spy shots and artists impression (taken with a huge salt lick) it doesn't appear to be. Hope I'm wrong come Wednesday.

looks a little better here



if you remember before the F1 was released no one knew what that was going to look like, mclaren like to keep things under wraps and fool everyone into thinking their cars will look crap, they seem to be doing a good job so far so i wouldnt say anything until real pics, official pics are released!!!
ive heard of ultima being used again for testing, but dont know if thats gonna be anything to do with its final look, as they are pretty tacky, although still awesome because usually they have a big enough power plant to compensate!

[whyman]

the pic in the Sunday Times looked like as Lotus, I only realised it wasn't when i read the article in detail. I had had a few beers though, but still


i think it looks similar to the farbrio

[GW65]

AUDIHenry said:

Terrible time to launch a car, though.

Reminds me of the fate that met the Cizeta-Moroder.

I can't help thinking the Cizeta would have died no matter how good the market was.... It looked awful and was too wide to be usable on the road (outside of Miami Vice) just for starters.

[Fittster]

GW65 said:

AUDIHenry said:

Terrible time to launch a car, though.

Reminds me of the fate that met the Cizeta-Moroder.

I can't help thinking the Cizeta would have died no matter how good the market was.... It looked awful and was too wide to be usable on the road (outside of Miami Vice) just for starters.

A Cizeta is the same width as a Murciélago

[tgx4776]

correct said:

Abe Froman said:

Can't help thinking that after seeing that Beemer concept last week that the design of this 'needs' be something special, but looking at the spy shots and artists impression (taken with a huge salt lick) it doesn't appear to be. Hope I'm wrong come Wednesday.

looks a little better here



if you remember before the F1 was released no one knew what that was going to look like, mclaren like to keep things under wraps and fool everyone into thinking their cars will look crap, they seem to be doing a good job so far so i wouldnt say anything until real pics, official pics are released!!!
ive heard of ultima being used again for testing, but dont know if thats gonna be anything to do with its final look, as they are pretty tacky, although still awesome because usually they have a big enough power plant to compensate!

that shot looks a little like a mid engined Corvette

[Airbag]

tgx4776 said:

correct said:

Abe Froman said:

Can't help thinking that after seeing that Beemer concept last week that the design of this 'needs' be something special, but looking at the spy shots and artists impression (taken with a huge salt lick) it doesn't appear to be. Hope I'm wrong come Wednesday.

looks a little better here



if you remember before the F1 was released no one knew what that was going to look like, mclaren like to keep things under wraps and fool everyone into thinking their cars will look crap, they seem to be doing a good job so far so i wouldnt say anything until real pics, official pics are released!!!
ive heard of ultima being used again for testing, but dont know if thats gonna be anything to do with its final look, as they are pretty tacky, although still awesome because usually they have a big enough power plant to compensate!

that shot looks a little like a mid engined Corvette

correct said:

The engine is NOT Mercedes! Its an LS7 (7.0 V8)

I just had a horrible thought.

[bobthemonkey]

I was under the impression that the engine was going to be the 'old' 5.5 3v AMG V8, thoroughly reworked by Mahle/Cosworth (new heads, optimised for NA, not FI) and badged only as Mclaren.

[Daisy Duke]

dandarez said:

Not what I'd say all Brit sports car fans are waiting for (possibly playboys and oil rich Saudis might be waiting for it but I'm not).

Can't say I've ever thought of myself as a playboy.

cathalm said:

I'm really quite excited about this. Just read the Times article as well. I don't knwo why some of you are moaning, except maybe to follow the PH flow as it has been for awhile. If you read the detail of reports you will see that they are planning 2 more cars, a new F1 and yes, a direct 911 rival. this car is intended to build the brand by offering true supercar performance whilst not landing in the Zonda, Koenigsegg space. Yes, 150k is expensive, but it compares favourably to a DBS, a 599 or a Murcielago, even a well specced Gallardo.

Take a chill pill folks thsi is really great news for British car fans and all performance car enthusiasts, the more financially accessible car is coming later.

Quite agree. I can't say I'm surprised though at the amount of speculation that goes on by people who have never seen the car, let alone driven it. Still if it really is £150k, it's likely to be less expensive than the 458 and £50k cheaper than the M600, so very interesting indeed.

[Niffty951]

cathalm said:

I'm really quite excited about this. Just read the Times article as well. I don't knwo why some of you are moaning, except maybe to follow the PH flow as it has been for awhile. If you read the detail of reports you will see that they are planning 2 more cars, a new F1 and yes, a direct 911 rival. this car is intended to build the brand by offering true supercar performance whilst not landing in the Zonda, Koenigsegg space. Yes, 150k is expensive, but it compares favourably to a DBS, a 599 or a Murcielago, even a well specced Gallardo.

Take a chill pill folks thsi is really great news for British car fans and all performance car enthusiasts, the more financially accessible car is coming later.

Hmmm. I can't see it or they'd have released the lowest rung first to boost sales and avoid it becoming a 'poor mans McLaren'

[viciousjello]

They sound like a range of cars for a rich aston martin market... the sub 100k mclaren compares to the vantage... but the 150k is top end aston and the top end one is competing with the worlds hyper cars... as much as i would love mclaren to be successful, i think the market is pretty saturated.

[Gizmo!]

Niffty951 said:

Gizmo! said:

Niffty951 said:

If they substituted the rare materials and no doubt ridiculously complex engineering designs for materials with 90% of the abilities/properties but which cost 10% of the price. If they used just a few more simple and traditional methods which work and don't need changing and stuck to a limited number of their favourite innovations then they could really seriously pull this off and produce a £75,000 entry level supercar that would sell like hot cakes! I’m certain of it!

Put a business case together than and start your own company. I'd be happy to see such a product, although I can't afford it myself.
McLaren have access to the market knowledge of one of the biggest groups in the world, certainly in the premium sector: Mercedes owns 40% of McLaren. I suspect that they know a few things about what people who have £150k to spend on a car might be looking for, and are looking for that niche.

As the man says... "Ah'm oot."

I'm sure they've researched it at length but it’s easy to persuade yourself that something will work if its what you want to believe. Big budget company or one man band historically they’ve all fallen in to the trap at some point. My point is that there are lots of would be car designs that could work but will never challenge the big boys like Porsche because.. well who's going to buy a car from someone they've never heard of with no pedigree when they could spend their hard earned on a Porsche?! Not me for one. Only a select few risk takers I would imagine.

Lotus have a great thing going with the Evora. Superb product, not far from perfectly placed but produced by a company who's long since been pigeonholed into a particular market by the masses and with an unexciting engine it'll never be a big competitor in the market that the Germans dominate.

..Now McLaren with no history of cars at this level, a name that makes the ears of any car nut prick up, a true racing pedigree and backed by established German engineering parts in a car honed by the best of British engineers... that really could work. £150,000 just puts it in the wrong bracket and reduces there market from (say) 30% of car enthusiasts to (say) 2%. Who in a normal well paid 9 to 5 job could afford a £150,000k car? £60-80k?? Takes dedication but some will and many more will dream at the possibility and want to.. this then makes it talked about, desirable and keeps it in the eyes of the public.

I wish you'd make up your mind whether you think it's a good thing or not.
> "McLaren with no history of cars at this level" - bad, probably. Certainly makes it harder.
> "a name that makes the ears of any car nut prick up" - I can think of nothing better to ease the worries of buying from a 'new' company.

As for the size of the market - I remember reading something quite recently that said there were as many people around with £200k to spend these days as there are with £50k - because many of those who would have been looking at £50k cars are getting squeezed by the cost of living and tax, while the truly wealthy are comfortable above that sort of trouble. I'd say they're aiming at the niche the Merc SLR used to occupy: the supercar you can use every day (but a bit cheaper).

On another note... SURELY it won't be an off-the-shelf V8? Mercedes have loads of V8 know-how and the next Pagani is rumoured to be going V8 iirc, which will help the economies of scale...

[ivanj]

correct said:

The engine is NOT Mercedes! Its an LS7 (7.0 V8)

Any proof of this?

[911 Turbo LE]

looks a little better here



if you remember before the F1 was released no one knew what that was going to look like, mclaren like to keep things under wraps and fool everyone into thinking their cars will look crap, they seem to be doing a good job so far so i wouldnt say anything until real pics, official pics are released!!!
ive heard of ultima being used again for testing, but dont know if thats gonna be anything to do with its final look, as they are pretty tacky, although still awesome because usually they have a big enough power plant to compensate!
[/quote]

Saw this Mclaren SLR today ,It was a black car and had a silver wrap it looked terrible close up. it was a finance company repo. bid £180k reserve not met.