RE: Lotus Unveils 'Range Extender'
Discussion
Insight said:
is this not the same technology as my car, the Honda Insight (that is over 10 years old?)
"The gasoline engine is a 70 hp (52 kW; 71 PS), 1-liter, ECA series 3-cylinder unit providing lean burn operation with an air fuel ratio that can reach 25.8 to 1.[10] The electrical motor assist adds in another 10 kW (13 hp) when called on, and similarly provides significant deceleration when used in regenerative mode for braking. (This both improves fuel efficiency and also dramatically extends the lifetime of brakes). When the car is not moving, for example, at a stop light, the engine shuts off. The digital displays on the dashboard display fuel consumption instantaneously. On the manual transmission up and down arrows suggest when to shift gears."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_Insight
Nope, the idea with the Lotus engine is that it is not connected to the wheels and never directly powers the car at all. It is basically a glorified generator which recharges the batteries whenever they get low."The gasoline engine is a 70 hp (52 kW; 71 PS), 1-liter, ECA series 3-cylinder unit providing lean burn operation with an air fuel ratio that can reach 25.8 to 1.[10] The electrical motor assist adds in another 10 kW (13 hp) when called on, and similarly provides significant deceleration when used in regenerative mode for braking. (This both improves fuel efficiency and also dramatically extends the lifetime of brakes). When the car is not moving, for example, at a stop light, the engine shuts off. The digital displays on the dashboard display fuel consumption instantaneously. On the manual transmission up and down arrows suggest when to shift gears."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_Insight
This has the potential to be far more efficient than any current hybrid, especially at motorway speeds, as the engine can always be operating at peak efficiency rather than having to vary it's RPM to match the road speed.
stifler said:
Off Topic but back in the sixties there was a concept going around the car mags of a 6 wheeled car to be called the British Lion. It was to have an engine driving a hydraulic pump with a hydraulic motor in each upright driving all 6 wheels. It never got any budget iirc.
Sounds like some JCB models! 
bosscerbera said:
The Lotus motor's 35kW isn't much power whatever way it's used to 'extend-a-range' though. And if several were to be used, even two creates a 'weight budget' that would enable a much more powerful engine to be used. kW/BHP-per-kg (noted, motor/generator included) doesn't look very impressive - maybe it's exceptionally cheap?
I think 45bhp would be quite sufficient. after all when my tvr's trundling along at 70 mph it only needs about 25bhp to keep it at that speed. If you decellerate you get 80 % of the energy you need to accelerate back up to speed from regenerative braking and the rest can come from the battery (which if you're driving fairly smothly should have had 20bhp worth of energy pumped into it of a couple of minutes and the batteries will be able to release that energy in a couple of seconds to make you shoot up to speed. It would a fairly average car to driving at a constant 80 - 85 mph. Due to the power delivery this probably wouldn't feel sluggish / strained because there would be extra power it just wouldn't last too long.Insight said:
is this not the same technology as my car, the Honda Insight (that is over 10 years old?)
"The gasoline engine is a 70 hp (52 kW; 71 PS), 1-liter, ECA series 3-cylinder unit providing lean burn operation with an air fuel ratio that can reach 25.8 to 1.[10] The electrical motor assist adds in another 10 kW (13 hp) when called on, and similarly provides significant deceleration when used in regenerative mode for braking. (This both improves fuel efficiency and also dramatically extends the lifetime of brakes). When the car is not moving, for example, at a stop light, the engine shuts off. The digital displays on the dashboard display fuel consumption instantaneously. On the manual transmission up and down arrows suggest when to shift gears."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_Insight
If your car could run at 70 mph for 2 hours entirely from the batteries it would be. Lotus's concept marries with the concept of the plug in hybrid - essentially an electric car for daily use but for those few times a year when you want to go on a family holiday to cornwall you can drive there without needing to spend a couple of hours charging along the way."The gasoline engine is a 70 hp (52 kW; 71 PS), 1-liter, ECA series 3-cylinder unit providing lean burn operation with an air fuel ratio that can reach 25.8 to 1.[10] The electrical motor assist adds in another 10 kW (13 hp) when called on, and similarly provides significant deceleration when used in regenerative mode for braking. (This both improves fuel efficiency and also dramatically extends the lifetime of brakes). When the car is not moving, for example, at a stop light, the engine shuts off. The digital displays on the dashboard display fuel consumption instantaneously. On the manual transmission up and down arrows suggest when to shift gears."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_Insight
Essentially your car is no different from other petrol cars once it exceeds the capabilities of the electric drivetrain but it is nowhere near as efficient as a serial hybrid over the first 100 miles or so (99% of trips for most people)
Insight said:
is this not the same technology as my car, the Honda Insight (that is over 10 years old?)
"The gasoline engine is a 70 hp (52 kW; 71 PS), 1-liter, ECA series 3-cylinder unit providing lean burn operation with an air fuel ratio that can reach 25.8 to 1.[10] The electrical motor assist adds in another 10 kW (13 hp) when called on, and similarly provides significant deceleration when used in regenerative mode for braking. (This both improves fuel efficiency and also dramatically extends the lifetime of brakes). When the car is not moving, for example, at a stop light, the engine shuts off. The digital displays on the dashboard display fuel consumption instantaneously. On the manual transmission up and down arrows suggest when to shift gears."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_Insight
No."The gasoline engine is a 70 hp (52 kW; 71 PS), 1-liter, ECA series 3-cylinder unit providing lean burn operation with an air fuel ratio that can reach 25.8 to 1.[10] The electrical motor assist adds in another 10 kW (13 hp) when called on, and similarly provides significant deceleration when used in regenerative mode for braking. (This both improves fuel efficiency and also dramatically extends the lifetime of brakes). When the car is not moving, for example, at a stop light, the engine shuts off. The digital displays on the dashboard display fuel consumption instantaneously. On the manual transmission up and down arrows suggest when to shift gears."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_Insight
stuart-b said:
The idea seems good, but power and RPM seem rather limited? How come it only revs to 3,500 rpm?? Surely this will make it pretty tiring to drive? As max power is max RPM.
Not sure what car over 500kg, could make use of this?
Its a glorified battery recharger. Never directly drives the wheels.Not sure what car over 500kg, could make use of this?
bosscerbera said:
Monoblocks are not a Lotus innovation.
Looks interesting though.
The 1084cc ALFA produced in 1911 shows that the monoblock engine isn't a Lotus innovation.Looks interesting though.
http://www.4-seater.com/
Anyone know of an earlier example?
Mike
Mr Whippy said:
How pointless.
Isn't it shown, in the 'real world', that a small diesel will blow these silly hybrid things into the weeds on efficiency?
Dave
Parallel hybrids yesIsn't it shown, in the 'real world', that a small diesel will blow these silly hybrid things into the weeds on efficiency?
Dave
Serial hybrids absolutely not no way ever
http://karma.fiskerautomotive.com/
400 bhp hybrid with some insane economy figures
jaik said:
How about a diesel serial hybrid then?
diesils are more efficient because they run at a higher compression so it's theoreticaly better. However in a serial hybrid the engine is only used a small portion of the time (for example when the car has allready travelled 60 miles that day) With my driving this would probably average about 5 -10 miles a week (or a litre of fuel or so)Because of this the extra cost of manufacturing a diesel engine will probably never be paid for by a slight gain in efficiency. Also as the torque no longer matters the benifits of the diesil falls further away from the petrol.
Diesels could be practical for parallel hybrids for say taxis / busses or other vehicles where they will exceed this range on a daily basis.
Indeed, I'm rather confused why they have not made a diesel jenny instead as they have higher thermodynamic efficiency than petrol engines?
I would have said that to measure whether or not this is actually a good engine, you would need to measure it by the following metrics:
KwH (electric) per Unit of Fuel used
overall cost (manufacture and maintanence) per kilowat of power or indeed kwh over its lifetime.
weight per killowatt.
Needless to say, single speed engines can be vasly more efficient..
I would have said that to measure whether or not this is actually a good engine, you would need to measure it by the following metrics:
KwH (electric) per Unit of Fuel used
overall cost (manufacture and maintanence) per kilowat of power or indeed kwh over its lifetime.
weight per killowatt.
Needless to say, single speed engines can be vasly more efficient..
Monoblocks have one very nice feature; Theres no head gasket.
They were fairly popular in the 30's on supercharged Bentleys etc, then again in the turbo F1 days, and all because you can run higher boost pressure when theres no gasket to worry about. So pop a variable boost turbo on this unit and you have the potential to get decent power if required.
They were fairly popular in the 30's on supercharged Bentleys etc, then again in the turbo F1 days, and all because you can run higher boost pressure when theres no gasket to worry about. So pop a variable boost turbo on this unit and you have the potential to get decent power if required.
ctallchris said:
Mr Whippy said:
How pointless.
Isn't it shown, in the 'real world', that a small diesel will blow these silly hybrid things into the weeds on efficiency?
Dave
Parallel hybrids yesIsn't it shown, in the 'real world', that a small diesel will blow these silly hybrid things into the weeds on efficiency?
Dave
Serial hybrids absolutely not no way ever
http://karma.fiskerautomotive.com/
400 bhp hybrid with some insane economy figures
From what I have seen, a great deal of the apparent 'benefit' of a hybrid on paper is that it starts the relatively short CO2 cycle run on a full battery. That makes them appear great, and since manufacturers have targets around CO2, they make them.
In reality, are they actually much better, or are the 'economy figures' misleading due to benefits put on hybrids?
Dave
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