RE: Skoda Octavia vRS: The Antidote To The MPV
Discussion
patmahe said:
From what I've read in this thread, there are a surprising amount of badge snobs on PH, I've long been an admirer of the Octavia Vrs and believe as far as practical, useable, everyday performance cars go one of these would be all you'd ever need. It may not be perfect but pound per pound its better than most of the alternatives.
I'm sorry if I'm a badge snob, but I would never set my ass in a car built by a manufacturer that weighs up the cost of your funeral against the cost of changing a design fault THEY created!A wheel falls of a Skoda in 1986 on the M4 and the owner lives to complain and the U.K never lets it down. If a exploding fuel tank or dodgey tyres are fitted to a Ford and people die as a result it is quickly shunned or the blame is passed to someone else.
In the real world where I decide what I drive and what I spend my money on Ford does not even enter the equation. Honda-Toyota-Skoda are the only 3 I would choose.
But then an Grande Scenic does sound like a tempting alternative to a vRS Octy (hint of sarcasim)
Belfast Boy said:
...I would never set my ass in a car built by a manufacturer that weighs up the cost of your funeral against the cost of changing a design fault THEY created!
A wheel falls of a Skoda in 1986 on the M4 and the owner lives to complain and the U.K never lets it down.
Fair comment, but then you can rule out Maserati as well, I'm afraid. I've personally seen two Biturbos at the side of dual carriageways with sheared wheel hubs, which given the number of them that actually made it to our shores is a scarily high proportion, even if there were no other instances. A wheel falls of a Skoda in 1986 on the M4 and the owner lives to complain and the U.K never lets it down.
Since the suspension components (and, indeed, much of the rest of the mechanical platform) on the Skoda are shared with the rest of the VAG range, you've better rule out Audi, Volkswagen and Seat on technical grounds and Bugatti, Bentley and Lamborghini out of moral stance, while you're at it (the Lamborghini Countach is known for shearing stub axles, as well, as it happens, so you need to doubly rule out anything with a bull on its badge).
Edited by Sam_68 on Thursday 17th September 12:32
Belfast Boy said:
I'm sorry if I'm a badge snob, but I would never set my ass in a car built by a manufacturer that weighs up the cost of your funeral against the cost of changing a design fault THEY created!
That's going to make using any form of transport whatsoever a little tricky.zakelwe said:
FamilyGuy said:
Silly thread title. Since when would an estate do the job of an MPV? If you can find a quick estate that'll take 2 adults, 4 children (all in ISOFIX seats) a double off-road buggy and two children's bikes then regardless of badge or price, you'll sell zilloins of them.
I've seen 5 kids in a Volvo, 2 facing backwards and it still has more room than a Mainly Purposeless Vehicle. People just buy them because they think they have to if they have kids. My sister in law has a Zafira because she has 2 sons. They do football sometimes and so have to take other people so it becomes "a requirement". It would be far cheaper to buy a Corsa and hire a taxi for the other 8 or 9 times a year she actually needs 7 seats.All MPV's do is allow manufacturers to charge sheep for an incredible amount of wasted space above the dashboard.
Regards
Andy
The space above the dashboard is not wasted, the seat height allows for upright higher seating meaning that you can optimize space in length, my grand scenic is a smaller car than most large estates (in length and width) meaning its easier to park etc, but has more space internal due to its clever arrangement, so its a smaller car on the road but manages to fit all occupants with comfort and also has a bigger boot than nearly all large estates at 605 litres, how is that a waste? they are designed for a purpose and they fulfil it well.
Edited by sandys on Thursday 17th September 13:19
J111 said:
Belfast Boy said:
I'm sorry if I'm a badge snob, but I would never set my ass in a car built by a manufacturer that weighs up the cost of your funeral against the cost of changing a design fault THEY created!
That's going to make using any form of transport whatsoever a little tricky.In the 1980s to pick up any car franchise was very easy, especially Skoda/Hyundai/Mitsubishi and Proton. PDI's on new cars was pretty much non existant, as fluidss where not checked head gaskets popped within hundreds of miles. I Know, I've been in a 120Lse towing a caravan at the side of the road with steam pissing out the back of it.
But as for bad design, no earth strap on the fuel filler for a MINI no rear spoiler Audi TT and so on.
The Octavia may be dull but it tends to be reliable.
But for something a little bit more fun!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GeZhllaG5Mo
Belfast Boy said:
The Octavia may be dull but it tends to be reliable.
But for something a little bit more fun!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GeZhllaG5Mo
Answer there, make it rwd! But for something a little bit more fun!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GeZhllaG5Mo
I'm all for making one more interesting, but even a remap and exhaust leave it dull somehow, effective, but dull.
Maybe it needs some sound proofing removing, some more sharpness to it. It just feels so well made/setup to just be 'good' that it fails to have any need to draw attention to characteristics to get the best from it.
Great business model for people who just want effective 'cars' because it's clearly up there with the best of them, but less good for someone who wants some thrills and time to learn the car and it's character etc.
I will agree that as cars get more modern they have become duller, to the point you need a sports car these days to get the kinda sillyness that almost felt normal in many aspects on a 'sporty' late 80's early 90's saloon car.
Ie, my brother has an old Sierra XR4x4, and in many ways it is completely s
te, BUT, the drivetrain. The subtle vibration through the body of the car, the engine noise intrusion, that nice warming sensation through the bulkhead on a cold winters day as it soaks up with heat. I love those aspects of it. Others I think are complete turd though BUT, it seems we have lost those fun characteristics in search of an anodyne car. Even my 'sports car' Z4 is overly refined and too smooth for it's own good, imho. It's not refined in a good way either, it's just been muted so retards who don't like a fun idle exhaust note can get on with it better and so BMW sell more to poseurs etc....
Gah. I just wish when manufacturers make these kinda "RS" models, they DO make a proper sporty saloon. Keep the vRS by all means, there is market for a brisk boring model, but also make one that is a bit harder. Cripes, it might not sell many, but at least you have integrity when you try sell it as sporty! And it's not like using sportier alignment settings, removing some weight and toys, sound proofing, more agressive engine mapping etc, really cost that much. Your just taking stuff away to make it better. Less is more! Adding character!
Hmmm
Dave
>>>>>>>>>>sandys said:
zakelwe said:
FamilyGuy said:
Silly thread title. Since when would an estate do the job of an MPV? If you can find a quick estate that'll take 2 adults, 4 children (all in ISOFIX seats) a double off-road buggy and two children's bikes then regardless of badge or price, you'll sell zilloins of them.
I've seen 5 kids in a Volvo, 2 facing backwards and it still has more room than a Mainly Purposeless Vehicle. People just buy them because they think they have to if they have kids. My sister in law has a Zafira because she has 2 sons. They do football sometimes and so have to take other people so it becomes "a requirement". It would be far cheaper to buy a Corsa and hire a taxi for the other 8 or 9 times a year she actually needs 7 seats.All MPV's do is allow manufacturers to charge sheep for an incredible amount of wasted space above the dashboard.
Regards
Andy
The space above the dashboard is not wasted, the seat height allows for upright higher seating meaning that you can optimize space in length, my grand scenic is a smaller car than most large estates (in length and width) meaning its easier to park etc, but has more space internal due to its clever arrangement, so its a smaller car on the road but manages to fit all occupants with comfort and also has a bigger boot than nearly all large estates at 605 litres, how is that a waste? they are designed for a purpose and they fulfil it well.
Edited by sandys on Thursday 17th September 13:19
Regards
Andy
Edited by zakelwe on Thursday 17th September 19:25
Its in the post, a Grand Scenic, obviously not the current model as I bought it for the missus 18 months ago, she didn't actually want one, preferring a more traditional estate but when shes paying she can have what she wants, until then..... 
she wouldn't change it now though.
Don't understand the obsession with space on the dash thats where its speedo etc is, do you put stuff on your dash, perhaps you fill yours with pink fluffy teddies, i'll abstain
If you can't understand how high upright chairs free up space compared to low raking chairs its going to be tough to explain it to you, in simple terms rather than your upper body and legs resting in this sort of position \, they are in more like dining room chair I suppose like this |
Hard to show in text but that should give you an idea, with seats upright you take less room.
she wouldn't change it now though.Don't understand the obsession with space on the dash thats where its speedo etc is, do you put stuff on your dash, perhaps you fill yours with pink fluffy teddies, i'll abstain
If you can't understand how high upright chairs free up space compared to low raking chairs its going to be tough to explain it to you, in simple terms rather than your upper body and legs resting in this sort of position \, they are in more like dining room chair I suppose like this |
\__ vs |_
\ |
Hard to show in text but that should give you an idea, with seats upright you take less room.
Extra storage, upright seats, none of my cars have, 300zx,Octavia 1.8, BMW 320D COMBI, Delorean. I keep my cars clean and clutter free, I dont carry unnessary crap around with me, and yes I do have a Kid before anyone asks and the buggy and childseat fit in the 300zx with baby on board sticker!(my daily run a round) no problem.
On my Uni car design course the simplicity of say, Vauxhall Corsa and stretch all the pillars upwards 3 inches to create a Mpv, Astra estate, Zafira, Megane, Scenic, Focus, C-max AND Fabia ,Roomster although designed correctly to do the job in hand IMHO etc etc. Its a Marketing Niche that alot of people fall for and to be honest can't see lasting another decade.
On my Uni car design course the simplicity of say, Vauxhall Corsa and stretch all the pillars upwards 3 inches to create a Mpv, Astra estate, Zafira, Megane, Scenic, Focus, C-max AND Fabia ,Roomster although designed correctly to do the job in hand IMHO etc etc. Its a Marketing Niche that alot of people fall for and to be honest can't see lasting another decade.
zakelwe said:
FamilyGuy said:
Silly thread title. Since when would an estate do the job of an MPV? If you can find a quick estate that'll take 2 adults, 4 children (all in ISOFIX seats) a double off-road buggy and two children's bikes then regardless of badge or price, you'll sell zilloins of them.
I've seen 5 kids in a Volvo, 2 facing backwards and it still has more room than a Mainly Purposeless Vehicle. People just buy them because they think they have to if they have kids. My sister in law has a Zafira because she has 2 sons. They do football sometimes and so have to take other people so it becomes "a requirement". It would be far cheaper to buy a Corsa and hire a taxi for the other 8 or 9 times a year she actually needs 7 seats.All MPV's do is allow manufacturers to charge sheep for an incredible amount of wasted space above the dashboard.
Regards
Andy
Is it just me, or are those rear-facing seats in Volvo estates just designed to encourage late braking?
FamilyGuy said:
zakelwe said:
FamilyGuy said:
Silly thread title. Since when would an estate do the job of an MPV? If you can find a quick estate that'll take 2 adults, 4 children (all in ISOFIX seats) a double off-road buggy and two children's bikes then regardless of badge or price, you'll sell zilloins of them.
I've seen 5 kids in a Volvo, 2 facing backwards and it still has more room than a Mainly Purposeless Vehicle. People just buy them because they think they have to if they have kids. My sister in law has a Zafira because she has 2 sons. They do football sometimes and so have to take other people so it becomes "a requirement". It would be far cheaper to buy a Corsa and hire a taxi for the other 8 or 9 times a year she actually needs 7 seats.All MPV's do is allow manufacturers to charge sheep for an incredible amount of wasted space above the dashboard.
Regards
Andy
When I wrote the headline/thread title I have to admit I wasn't thinking of full-sized Sharalaxy-style MPVs as the smaller C-segment based ones outsell the big 'uns by vast amounts. And although admittedly most of those smaller ones do at least have seven-seat options, the 5-seat Scenic, C-max, C4 Picasso etc is stil la big part of that market.
This thread has made me laugh in a few places, in a good way! I have a vRS and enjoy it maybe I should consider trading to a non-boring Ford, BMW, maybe even a Peugeot. Sadly I think very few manafacturers create anything that isn't dull when looking at estates and saloons at under 20K new.
A used RS4 or BMW M3 would, I suspect be miles better but is a totally different class of car.
A used RS4 or BMW M3 would, I suspect be miles better but is a totally different class of car.
marcosgt said:
Belfast Boy said:
... yes I do have a Kid before anyone asks and the buggy and childseat fit in the 300zx with baby on board sticker...
Was that a joke or do you REALLY have a 'Baby on Board' sticker? If so, why?M.
Shes been out in my old Delorean too, but a bit silly to put baby on board sticker on that!
Edited by Belfast Boy on Tuesday 22 September 20:15
Skoda creates heated debate, who'da thunk....
Anyhow I've been clearing my loft today in preparation for putting in more insulation.
Lots of rubbish bags, boxes etc and multiple trips to the dump, topped off with visits to b&q for insulation.
This has made it clear that as I can only afford to run one car, it must have flap down seats and a lot of potential storage on offer.
Which leads me to two cars, golf gti (mk 5) and the mk2 Vrs.
Now for the same sort of price I can get a much newer vrs, combined with impressive boot space, leads me to think that head over heart, the vrs is the better long term prospect.
Am I wrong?
Anyhow I've been clearing my loft today in preparation for putting in more insulation.
Lots of rubbish bags, boxes etc and multiple trips to the dump, topped off with visits to b&q for insulation.
This has made it clear that as I can only afford to run one car, it must have flap down seats and a lot of potential storage on offer.
Which leads me to two cars, golf gti (mk 5) and the mk2 Vrs.
Now for the same sort of price I can get a much newer vrs, combined with impressive boot space, leads me to think that head over heart, the vrs is the better long term prospect.
Am I wrong?
weLex said:
eLex said: Am I wrong?
Nope.I did much the same calculation, except that instead of a much newer car, I was comparing new (company) cars and thinking about the amount of tax I'd have to pay. The VRS gives almost identical performance but much better practicality (especially the estate) at a chunk less cost.
The springs/dampers are noticably more compliant on the Octavia than the Golf, though. I prefer this - it makes the handling a lot more progressive and the comfort better for long-haul journeys - but if you're looking for a sharp, focused GTi, you may prefer the one with the Volkswagen badge on it. Mind you, the VRs handles and grips well enough that I've found the limit on many of my favourite roundabouts is set by the little red light that flashes to warn you you've just lost all oil pressure due to sump surge!
Also, be aware that the horrible interior pictured above in this thread does wear quite badly; the pale grey alcantara gets grubby and the mesh seat inserts wear and fray. Mine has now done 70K miles and is beginning to look distinctly down-at-heel. I'll probably be replacing it with another Octavia VRs, but next time I'll tick the box for the full leather option.
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