Ford Puma. Talk to me

[BarnatosGhost]

TheEnd said:

BarnatosGhost said:

The new e30 m3.

right...

in the sense that they've doubled in value in 5 years despite sharing a lot with a car that most wouldn't look twice at, and that even enthusiasts allow to depreciate all the way to zero. (yes, i'd rather have the m3 too, but you catch my drift)!

[raf_gti]

I've now had the car for two weeks and covered just under 2000 miles and I've not regretted a moment of it.

As you can see from the picture I took it on a little Highland adventure and apart from being slighty lacking in power I couldn't really imagine having more fun in any other car. With a set of decent tyres on it really was incredible how much speed I could carry into corners, very impressive how a 'little gay car' could be thrown around the tight and twisty roads.

The interior is a bit basic but solid enough and the seats although hard have already proven themselves more supportive than the ones in my previous Passat.

If anyone who comes across this thread and is still undecided then take it from me, it really is a fantastic car and fully deserving of the EVO 5* rating.

[BarnatosGhost]

Very well done that man.

I love it when a plan comes together.

[/hannibal]

[vendetta]

raf_gti said:

If anyone who comes across this thread and is still undecided then take it from me, it really is a fantastic car and fully deserving of the EVO 5* rating.

+1. I have a bit of a dilema with mine. I have owned it since last December, bought for £1400 at around 100,000miles, its now starting to feel a bit tired.

The previous owner had lowered the car on springs. Now, the ride is quite crashy and my instincts tell me that standard springs would be an improvement as it was already a well set up car. what do you think? Is it possible for 'lowered on springs' to actually give worse handling than standard?

I have no idea what size the springs are so I either put new suspension (dampers and springs) on it, put the factory springs on it (most likely, will cost 150quid ish for parts) or put new crashy type springs on it.

Thanks and sorry for semi hijack!

[BarnatosGhost]

vendetta said:

raf_gti said:

If anyone who comes across this thread and is still undecided then take it from me, it really is a fantastic car and fully deserving of the EVO 5* rating.

+1. I have a bit of a dilema with mine. I have owned it since last December, bought for £1400 at around 100,000miles, its now starting to feel a bit tired.

The previous owner had lowered the car on springs. Now, the ride is quite crashy and my instincts tell me that standard springs would be an improvement as it was already a well set up car. what do you think? Is it possible for 'lowered on springs' to actually give worse handling than standard?

I have no idea what size the springs are so I either put new suspension (dampers and springs) on it, put the factory springs on it (most likely, will cost 150quid ish for parts) or put new crashy type springs on it.

Thanks and sorry for semi hijack!

Short answer: Yes.

The Puma was brilliantly done when new. Just replace everything back to standard, including regulation tyres.

And enjoy one of the last genuinely, properly fun shopping cars. Super stuff.

[RDE]

It seemed a fairly popular recommendation on pumapeople.com and I heard the OEM ones wore out very quickly. The handling to me still seems spot on, it's just that on a choppy road you seem to get thrown around in your seat a little bit. If I drive over a recessed drain in my girlfriend's Fiesta (Mk6), it feels like the wheels are moving into the void and the body stays pretty level. In the same situation in my car it feels more violent and the body seems to react more.
ETA: It felt 'crashy' on the standard bushes as well, but they were knackered so that made sense. The difference now is that the suspension feels like it's moving in the right direction rather than all over the place.

I can't make my mind up about the bushes. I never drove it with fresh, standard bushes so can't really compare like with like. Most reports were that the poly bushes made little difference but lasted a lot better than the Ford parts. I like the firmness and controlled-ness of them most of the time, but drive over a pothole/recessed manhole cover and the resultant shudder makes me wince.

Edited by RDE on Thursday 12th November 23:57

[vendetta]

BarnatosGhost said:

Short answer: Yes.

The Puma was brilliantly done when new. Just replace everything back to standard, including regulation tyres.

And enjoy one of the last genuinely, properly fun shopping cars. Super stuff.

Thank you.

I had considered fast road set up suspension, but I am not sure what dampers I would go with so I am going to go buy the factory springs. I hear the out of the box tyres aren't that good? So im sticking with toyos/avons.

RDE said:

Mine feels a bit 'crashy' since I had the bushes replaced with polyurethane ones. However, it is still on the original springs and dampers at 105,000 miles, so I don't know if it's time they were replaced. It doesn't 'bob' when you press the wing down though.

RDE; I have only ever heard people advising against this, supposedly it ruins handling on Puma, contary to what the sellers say, of course.

Oh, did the cars computer need to be re-set when you replaced the ABS sensor? I have that problem too, found one for 40 quid on ebay. http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/PUMA-1-4-1-7-FRONT-ABS-SENSO...

Is this what you did?

Many thanks

Edited by vendetta on Thursday 12th November 22:39

[RDE]

It seemed a fairly popular recommendation on pumapeople.com and I heard the OEM ones wore out very quickly. Maybe i've done the wrong thing, but I was just trying to stop the job from having to be repeated in a couple of years time. It still handles the same, just more harshness on a rough road.


As for the ABS sensor, I couldn't undo the bolt holding the sensor onto the hub so asked the guy who did all my other work to replace the sensor as well. I think it was a case of replacing it and then disconnecting the battery to reset things, but I could be wrong. I assume you've discovered which one failed already? I used a multimeter with an ohmmeter to see which registered as having infinite resistance.

Edited by RDE on Thursday 12th November 23:56

[BarnatosGhost]

vendetta said:

BarnatosGhost said:

Short answer: Yes.

The Puma was brilliantly done when new. Just replace everything back to standard, including regulation tyres.

And enjoy one of the last genuinely, properly fun shopping cars. Super stuff.

Thank you.

I had considered fast road set up suspension, but I am not sure what dampers I would go with so I am going to go buy the factory springs. I hear the out of the box tyres aren't that good? So im sticking with toyos/avons.

RDE said:

Mine feels a bit 'crashy' since I had the bushes replaced with polyurethane ones. However, it is still on the original springs and dampers at 105,000 miles, so I don't know if it's time they were replaced. It doesn't 'bob' when you press the wing down though.

RDE; I have only ever heard people advising against this, supposedly it ruins handling on Puma, contary to what the sellers say, of course.

Oh, did the cars computer need to be re-set when you replaced the ABS sensor? I have that problem too, found one for 40 quid on ebay. http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/PUMA-1-4-1-7-FRONT-ABS-SENSO...

Is this what you did?

Many thanks

Edited by vendetta on Thursday 12th November 22:39

I'd hazard a guess that with an aftermarket kit you might enlarge the overall envelope a little bit, but at the cost of the superb balance, adjustability and deftness of touch that the puma is all about.

On another, more run-of-the-mill shopping trolley then fair enough, but messing with the Puma's standard settings is like bunging ketchup on a good steak.

All IMHO, not looking for a spat with the Fast Ford boys!

[rallycross]

Its good to see one of these threads where in the end you went ahead and bought the car, well done!

Standard suspension on the 1.7 puma should be fine, rear bushes go with age which gives a nasty knocking noise over potholes/speed bumps. Cant see how lowering a Puma would improve it...

Having owned a few Pumas including 1.6, 1.7 and racing puma 1.7's I found the standard suspension set up to be the best. Mess about with it and you will lose the compliance which is almost as good as a french gti on a bumpy road (very rare on a fast ford).

[snotrag]

What makes cars like these (Pumas, 306 GTi's, that sort of thing) is 'suppleness'.

Generally, the best setup will be standard, but in good condition


Many people will say that putting new G-max or whatever shocks on improved the ride - thats because they replace a set of shagged out dampers and springs.


Put Standard, but new stuff on, and the car will shine. And I bet a set of stock dampers for one of these are pretty cheap to boot too.

[vendetta]

RDE said:

It seemed a fairly popular recommendation on pumapeople.com and I heard the OEM ones wore out very quickly. The handling to me still seems spot on, it's just that on a choppy road you seem to get thrown around in your seat a little bit. If I drive over a recessed drain in my girlfriend's Fiesta (Mk6), it feels like the wheels are moving into the void and the body stays pretty level. In the same situation in my car it feels more violent and the body seems to react more.
ETA: It felt 'crashy' on the standard bushes as well, but they were knackered so that made sense. The difference now is that the suspension feels like it's moving in the right direction rather than all over the place.


As for the ABS sensor, I couldn't undo the bolt holding the sensor onto the hub so asked the guy who did all my other work to replace the sensor as well. I think it was a case of replacing it and then disconnecting the battery to reset things, but I could be wrong. I assume you've discovered which one failed already? I used a multimeter with an ohmmeter to see which registered as having infinite resistance.

Edited by RDE on Thursday 12th November 22:59

Well, at least you guys are happy with the modest improvements. Things like bushes, pads, good suspension and tyres don't seem to be the sort of things neglected by owners of these cars. Although very cheap, entry type cars, the buyers usually have paid cash and my logic is they know they are fun little cars and are happy upgrade them and enjoy them.

RE: ABS Sensor, I am sure it isn't required but luckily someone I know used some 7-8k snap on kit and it pointed it at drivers side sensor.

I am sure it's a quite job to get the light out.

Enjoy in health sir, keep these things on the road!

Bartnatos: I know what you're saying, no point polishing a turd, it will never be that fast without serious money so might as well enjoy what it is. Personally I am positive I've spent way more on tyres, brakes and regular servicing. And stuff for general maintenance new battery, alternator, front bushes, air filter etc

Rallycross, fair info regarding suspension. I would be interested to see two standard ones with decent brakes, with only one has a uprated suspension. I am sure uprated damper would be quicker, having watched ST challenge at Knockhill with guys running standard versus AMS suspension I think it is.

[vendetta]

snotrag said:

Put Standard, but new stuff on, and the car will shine. And I bet a set of stock dampers for one of these are pretty cheap to boot too.

I am trying to find this! I will have no need to get rid of this shopping trolley until it goes bang or my circumstances changes considerably.

[Lucie W]

Very nice. Interested to hear about these bushes, I was going to get them done next month for the MOT as they need replacing and I thought I'd put the placcy ones on (they're called powerflex or something like that). Mine are shot and I thought that these more expensive placcy ones would be better. Not so?

[BarnatosGhost]

vendetta said:

RDE said:

It seemed a fairly popular recommendation on pumapeople.com and I heard the OEM ones wore out very quickly. The handling to me still seems spot on, it's just that on a choppy road you seem to get thrown around in your seat a little bit. If I drive over a recessed drain in my girlfriend's Fiesta (Mk6), it feels like the wheels are moving into the void and the body stays pretty level. In the same situation in my car it feels more violent and the body seems to react more.
ETA: It felt 'crashy' on the standard bushes as well, but they were knackered so that made sense. The difference now is that the suspension feels like it's moving in the right direction rather than all over the place.


As for the ABS sensor, I couldn't undo the bolt holding the sensor onto the hub so asked the guy who did all my other work to replace the sensor as well. I think it was a case of replacing it and then disconnecting the battery to reset things, but I could be wrong. I assume you've discovered which one failed already? I used a multimeter with an ohmmeter to see which registered as having infinite resistance.

Edited by RDE on Thursday 12th November 22:59

Well, at least you guys are happy with the modest improvements. Things like bushes, pads, good suspension and tyres don't seem to be the sort of things neglected by owners of these cars. Although very cheap, entry type cars, the buyers usually have paid cash and my logic is they know they are fun little cars and are happy upgrade them and enjoy them.

RE: ABS Sensor, I am sure it isn't required but luckily someone I know used some 7-8k snap on kit and it pointed it at drivers side sensor.

I am sure it's a quite job to get the light out.

Enjoy in health sir, keep these things on the road!

Bartnatos: I know what you're saying, no point polishing a turd, it will never be that fast without serious money so might as well enjoy what it is. Personally I am positive I've spent way more on tyres, brakes and regular servicing. And stuff for general maintenance new battery, alternator, front bushes, air filter etc

Rallycross, fair info regarding suspension. I would be interested to see two standard ones with decent brakes, with only one has a uprated suspension. I am sure uprated damper would be quicker, having watched ST challenge at Knockhill with guys running standard versus AMS suspension I think it is.

Hmm, I didn't mean 'no point polishing a turd'. I meant more like 'please don't rub st on that diamond'.

And does it really matter which is quicker? Both will be slow.

Surely what is more important is which is more fun. I'd go with the dozens of OEM experts with big budgets who were responsible for it in the first place, than with a 'one-size-fits-all' kit from an unit in an industrial estate in northern germany!

Anyway, great cars, Cheers all!

[vendetta]

Lucie W said:

Very nice. Interested to hear about these bushes, I was going to get them done next month for the MOT as they need replacing and I thought I'd put the placcy ones on (they're called powerflex or something like that). Mine are shot and I thought that these more expensive placcy ones would be better. Not so?

Overall, RDE felt like it's an improvement. Others thing it is a complete waste of money and you should keep it standard. Personally, if it isn't going to cost much more, then give the polys a shot. I put slightly more expensive parks on brakes for example (got EBC's, greenstuffs, now), however, they are nothing to really rave about.

[Mr Gearchange]

Well done mate - welcome to the fold.
Really glad to know you are enjoying it, - it never diminishes.

[vendetta]

Oh, I am sure everyone here has seen this, but just in case someone has not:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTgXI1RlseE 1k fun!

EDIT: I'm pleased about the Puma following on PH!

Edited by vendetta on Thursday 12th November 23:36

[RDE]

vendetta said:

Lucie W said:

Very nice. Interested to hear about these bushes, I was going to get them done next month for the MOT as they need replacing and I thought I'd put the placcy ones on (they're called powerflex or something like that). Mine are shot and I thought that these more expensive placcy ones would be better. Not so?

Overall, RDE felt like it's an improvement. Others thing it is a complete waste of money and you should keep it standard. Personally, if it isn't going to cost much more, then give the polys a shot. I put slightly more expensive parks on brakes for example (got EBC's, greenstuffs, now), however, they are nothing to really rave about.

The problem I have is that I can't remember what my car felt like when I got it at ~50k miles, so it's difficult to know whether i've got something fairly similar but hopefully longer lasting in these Powerflex jobbies, or whether i've introduced some harshness and impaired the ride somewhat.

I'd be tempted to say go for the standard ones. At least then you know you're getting the car how Ford intended it. I'm very much of the opinion that the big manufacturers will know what they're doing, so the only modification I have other than those bushes is a bespoke exhaust, purely because Ford don't make the replacement anymore (or so I understand).

[thetapeworm]

Mine failed it's MOT on the rear bushes last month, I decided to go with Powerflex all round as my OH has them on hers in conjunction with Ford Racing shocks and Bilstein lower springs - it's still comfortable and compliant but sits nicer and feels slightly more direct in comparison.

However this is comparing new with my tired and disintegrated ones.

I asked on the Puma forum and the general feeback was that Powerflex are good at the front end but don't do the car any favours at the back, a lot of people reverted back to OEM bushes after fitting Powerflex on the rear.

With this in mind, and the reduced cost, I went with OEM and it's tightened the back end up a lot and made it feel much nicer to drive. I still think the car sits too high but it handles great so I'll live with that.

I'm wittering on now but what I guess I'm saying is that having new OEM bushes will probably make a world of difference compared with old worn ones, the jump to Powerflex might be a step too far for some and the money saved can be spent on other things like better brakes