RE: Driven: Westfield Sport Turbo

[RobCrezz]

darth_pies said:

article said:

Out on the road the Sport Turbo is perhaps not as pant-wettingly rapid as a near-200bhp turbocharged lump ought to be in a Lotus Seven-style car, but then it does weigh a comparatively portly 650kg.

Caterham R300 = 515kg = 339bhp/tonne

Westfield 1600 Turbo = 650kg = 295bhp/tonne

Good job its such a good looking car. Oh wait...

On the road I would be it would be similar turn of speed, due to the turbocharged lump producing much more power in the low and mid range, and a bit more at the top.

[jcas]

Scotty996T said:

650kg - what on earth are they thinking about. OK so I run Caterhams but that's nearly 30% more than our cars.

I guess a lot of the weight comes from getting the Type Approval - I think the old Sport 2000 with a Duratec weighed about 550kg. Its probably all the padding and stuff to stop pedestrians hurting themselves

[300bhp/ton]

Aren't a lot of people being rather hard
on the Westy here, including the review?

Surley if you don't want one, don't buy one??

[Great Pretender]

300bhp/ton said:

Aren't a lot of people being rather hard
on the Westy here, including the review?

Surley if you don't want one, don't buy one??

Yes but that's never stopped you from having a ridiculously obtuse opinion has it?

[Garlick]

300bhp/ton said:

Surley if you don't want one, don't buy one??

True enough, but the same is true of most cars no?

[Furyblade_Lee]

I think 600kgs for a fully trimmed car engined Caterfield should be a good target, but sayingthat I once weighed a crossflow caterham 7 which weighed more than that. With a remap, some lighter seats, trim, wheels ect then watch that puppy fly. 230-250 bhp, huge torque and 550-570 kgs should be achievable on a hot version. Westfield VXR anyone????

[hbwold]

That exhaust silencer looks hideous. I'm not sure about this car, too heavy and I'm not sure a turbocharged Westfield/Caterham is a good idea with the turbo lag, think it would be a bit unpredictable on/off the boost being such a relatively small light car, just a thought really as I've never driven a turbocharged one.

[Marf]

hbwold said:

That exhaust silencer looks hideous. I'm not sure about this car, too heavy and I'm not sure a turbocharged Westfield/Caterham is a good idea with the turbo lag, think it would be a bit unpredictable on/off the boost being such a relatively small light car, just a thought really as I've never driven a turbocharged one.

Look at the specs, full torque at 1950rpm, anything above that RPM and the boost provided by the turbo will be nothing more than a function of the throttle pedal, hardly laggy or on/off.

[hbwold]

Marf said:

Look at the specs, full torque at 1950rpm, anything above that RPM and the boost provided by the turbo will be nothing more than a function of the throttle pedal, hardly laggy or on/off.

Didn't see the specs in the review? I guess modern turbocharged engines have quite linear power delivery anyway.

Edited by hbwold on Thursday 22 October 14:24

[300bhp/ton]

Garlick said:

300bhp/ton said:

Surley if you don't want one, don't buy one??

True enough, but the same is true of most cars no?

yeah I suppose. Just thought it all seemed rather negative. Maybe it's just me though

[300bhp/ton]

Marf said:

hbwold said:

That exhaust silencer looks hideous. I'm not sure about this car, too heavy and I'm not sure a turbocharged Westfield/Caterham is a good idea with the turbo lag, think it would be a bit unpredictable on/off the boost being such a relatively small light car, just a thought really as I've never driven a turbocharged one.

Look at the specs, full torque at 1950rpm, anything above that RPM and the boost provided by the turbo will be nothing more than a function of the throttle pedal, hardly laggy or on/off.

That's boost threshold. Lag can happen at any rpm when you induce a turbo stall period. Most often by lifting off the throttle and then back on it again, there's a lag before the exhaust gas flow is sufficient to spin the blower to make boost and a lag while the turbo re-pressurises the intake system. This could happen at any rpm 5000rpm, 6000rpm.

The 1950rpm is just the point when then engine produces enough exhaust gas flow to power the turbo, below this point the turbo doesn't make boost and can't suffer lag, but this area of rpms aren't lag.

Hope this helps

[bales]

300bhp/ton said:

Marf said:

hbwold said:

That exhaust silencer looks hideous. I'm not sure about this car, too heavy and I'm not sure a turbocharged Westfield/Caterham is a good idea with the turbo lag, think it would be a bit unpredictable on/off the boost being such a relatively small light car, just a thought really as I've never driven a turbocharged one.

Look at the specs, full torque at 1950rpm, anything above that RPM and the boost provided by the turbo will be nothing more than a function of the throttle pedal, hardly laggy or on/off.

That's boost threshold. Lag can happen at any rpm when you induce a turbo stall period. Most often by lifting off the throttle and then back on it again, there's a lag before the exhaust gas flow is sufficient to spin the blower to make boost and a lag while the turbo re-pressurises the intake system. This could happen at any rpm 5000rpm, 6000rpm.

The 1950rpm is just the point when then engine produces enough exhaust gas flow to power the turbo, below this point the turbo doesn't make boost and can't suffer lag, but this area of rpms aren't lag.

Hope this helps

Semantics? I'm am pretty sure Marf knows what he is talking about.

If your going to be really pedantic what he said is correct as 'lag' purely means a time delay before an expected response occurs, therefore if you put your foot down at 1500rpm there will be a delay between pressing the pedal and getting any meaningful acceleration....i.e lag....

Hope this helps

Edited by bales on Thursday 22 October 14:49

[reg_slr]

300bhp/ton said:

Aren't a lot of people being rather hard
on the Westy here, including the review?

650Kg for a Se7en type car is shocking. Sorry but the only point I can see to building one with a smaller turbocharged lump as against a Duratec is a lighter overall package hoping that the engine could be mounted further back/lower in the chassis.

It is good having competition for Caterham though, keeps them honest

[New Scot]

300bhp/ton said:

Garlick said:

300bhp/ton said:

Surley if you don't want one, don't buy one??

True enough, but the same is true of most cars no?

yeah I suppose. Just thought it all seemed rather negative. Maybe it's just me though

Don't call me Shirley (you know what I mean!)

[Marf]

300bhp/ton said:

Marf said:

hbwold said:

That exhaust silencer looks hideous. I'm not sure about this car, too heavy and I'm not sure a turbocharged Westfield/Caterham is a good idea with the turbo lag, think it would be a bit unpredictable on/off the boost being such a relatively small light car, just a thought really as I've never driven a turbocharged one.

Look at the specs, full torque at 1950rpm, anything above that RPM and the boost provided by the turbo will be nothing more than a function of the throttle pedal, hardly laggy or on/off.

That's boost threshold. Lag can happen at any rpm when you induce a turbo stall period. Most often by lifting off the throttle and then back on it again, there's a lag before the exhaust gas flow is sufficient to spin the blower to make boost and a lag while the turbo re-pressurises the intake system. This could happen at any rpm 5000rpm, 6000rpm.

The 1950rpm is just the point when then engine produces enough exhaust gas flow to power the turbo, below this point the turbo doesn't make boost and can't suffer lag, but this area of rpms aren't lag.

Hope this helps

No its not the boost threshold, if the engine is making its peak torque from 1950rpm onwards, the turbo will be on full song, ergo the boost threshold will be markedly lower.

Hope this helps

bales said:

Semantics? I'm am pretty sure Marf knows what he is talking about.

Thank you bales.

hbwold said:

Marf said:

Look at the specs, full torque at 1950rpm, anything above that RPM and the boost provided by the turbo will be nothing more than a function of the throttle pedal, hardly laggy or on/off.

Didn't see the specs in the review? I guess modern turbocharged engines have quite linear power delivery anyway.

Yes, many modern turbo cars do, at least in OE specification.

Edited by Marf on Thursday 22 October 15:09

[Nickellarse]

£25K. Same as the R300.

I suppose it depends on whether you like turbo power or not. Seems a lot to me.

[whythem]

Nickellarse said:

£25K. Same as the R300.

I suppose it depends on whether you like turbo power or not. Seems a lot to me.

The article says that the Westfield is £3k less than the R300. In either case, the Caterham is the better buy regarding deprciation.

[Furyblade_Lee]

bear in mind too the car in question has a full windscreen and weather gear, that adds to the weight and the screen becomes a real drag issue above 90 mph. Caterham Superlight R's are quite heavy too with all that gear on and not an aeroscreen. I think it is genius getting it Euro compliant, if you knew how many Robin Hood / quite poor 7 clones go out to Europe then I think the Europeans may lap this car up, particularly with the current exchange rate. GTM, who are owned by same company as Westfield, have been experimenting with GM engines in Libras so I think it is obvious now what they are aiming for, big exports. Good luck to them, Caterham are into it now as well.

[Marf]

whythem said:

Nickellarse said:

£25K. Same as the R300.

I suppose it depends on whether you like turbo power or not. Seems a lot to me.

The article says that the Westfield is £3k less than the R300. In either case, the Caterham is the better buy regarding deprciation.

The westie would be more tunable though, as I said earlier the corsa VXR lump is very easy to get to around 230hp, which would take the hp/tonne up considerably.

[CrisW]

Furyblade_Lee said:

bear in mind too the car in question has a full windscreen and weather gear, that adds to the weight and the screen becomes a real drag issue above 90 mph. Caterham Superlight R's are quite heavy too with all that gear on and not an aeroscreen. I think it is genius getting it Euro compliant, if you knew how many Robin Hood / quite poor 7 clones go out to Europe then I think the Europeans may lap this car up, particularly with the current exchange rate. GTM, who are owned by same company as Westfield, have been experimenting with GM engines in Libras so I think it is obvious now what they are aiming for, big exports. Good luck to them, Caterham are into it now as well.

A Libra with one of these engines sounds like a nice idea to me...