RE: Ariel Atom 500 Will Cost £120,000

[alsem]

RobM77 said:

alsem said:

RobM77 said:

The Radical SR8 is 550kg and 360bhp, giving 654bhp/tonne, and I believe they can be made road legal. Incidentally, that's the same as a Dauer 962

But the SR8 needs a complete engine rebuild every ... miles, I think the Ariel will be road legal from production too.

That's actually a lot longer than I'd expect! The k series R500 was just a few thousand (depending on how you drove it - 3,000 was the average I think). Do you know what the rebuild cycle is on the Ariel's V8 to compare?...

My fault, I thought 30k was little, but it's actually an engine rebuild every 30 driving hours.
Haven't found any numbers about the Ariel V8 yet, but it won't be 30k either I guess :P

[Official Radical]

Just for reference, our SR8 engine warranty/rebuild interval is for 30 racing hours; in real terms that's an entire season's racing. Of course, with a road-legal car, the engine is far less stressed, and although not warranted, would last far longer.

[the atomic punk]

Depneds how you drive ont he road of course

[FNG]

It's impossible to continuously drive on the road in the same manner as in a race.

It's the times when you simply cannot be WOT and redlining that make the difference.

Shortshifting a few hundred rpm every change helps engine life massively, and you don't do that in a race but you rarely hit the limiter on the road, over the mileage you put in.

[Snoggledog]

Truly astonishing figures but how on earth will you be able to lay all of that power down? I really like the Atom but somehow I just can't see how they'll be able to deliver enough grip. As for driving it in the wet...

[RobM77]

alsem said:

RobM77 said:

alsem said:

RobM77 said:

The Radical SR8 is 550kg and 360bhp, giving 654bhp/tonne, and I believe they can be made road legal. Incidentally, that's the same as a Dauer 962

But the SR8 needs a complete engine rebuild every ... miles, I think the Ariel will be road legal from production too.

That's actually a lot longer than I'd expect! The k series R500 was just a few thousand (depending on how you drove it - 3,000 was the average I think). Do you know what the rebuild cycle is on the Ariel's V8 to compare?...

My fault, I thought 30k was little, but it's actually an engine rebuild every 30 driving hours.
Haven't found any numbers about the Ariel V8 yet, but it won't be 30k either I guess :P

I would expect a similar rebuild time on the Ariel to the Radical, given the engine similarities, but maybe "Ariel Official" could give us a figure?

PS - thanks to Radical for answering that query. For comparison, when I raced a Caterham it had an unstressed standard 1.6 K series, and most people up the top were getting refreshes at least annually. Mine hadn't been done for three years and it was pretty noticeable on the straights. It's the same story in the single seater series that I'm in now.

This all makes the Radical look good value by the way

There was a multiplying factor commonly used for wear race vs road for Caterham engines; and I know this sounds like a lot, but I'm sure it was 10! Can anyone confirm?

[Cynic]

Anyone remember the article where Simon Saunders stated that any sports car costing over £10k is a rip-off???

[RobM77]

Cynic said:

Anyone remember the article where Simon Saunders stated that any sports car costing over £10k is a rip-off???

That's less than the engine costs in any of these cars we're discussing! Even if you built the engine yourself, the parts probably come to more than that!

[davedlr]

I actually think this would be a good investment.

Yes the headline purchase price is high, but as there will be so few of them they are bound to hold their value; compared to the eye-watering depreciation hit you would take on a similarly priced "comfortable GT".

[k-ink]

It might be an idea to look into all wheel drive next. There's no way you'll get any more than half that power down in this country.

[Tinohead]

k-ink said:

When you get to this level of performance and total impracticality you may as well get a super bike for £8k. Same result

Unless of course you can't ride a bike. Or don't want to. Or would like a passenger to sit next to you not hang onto your waist. Or many other reasons that make comparing a bike to a car pointless...

[hairykrishna]

Tinohead said:

k-ink said:

When you get to this level of performance and total impracticality you may as well get a super bike for £8k. Same result

Unless of course you can't ride a bike. Or don't want to. Or would like a passenger to sit next to you not hang onto your waist. Or many other reasons that make comparing a bike to a car pointless...

Plus the fact that this thing will likely monster a superbike in any performance test you like to name. It has the normal superior grip and braking performance that cars have over bikes and I would imagine the 1000bhp/ton takes care of the acceleration that's the bikes normal party piece.

[toppstuff]

tuffer said:

Totally agree !

THAT ENGINE DESERVES ITS OWN THREAD !!!


Sorry to shout, but look at that engine. That is fantastic.

Imagine that in a Evora, or a Farbio, maybe an Exige. Would be my perfect car.

Website www.h1v8.com has some really interesting stuff on the development of the engine, the different prototypes and the first version that was tested in a Caterham 7. It revs to over 10,000 rpm !

Essentially, in spirit, the design is that of two Suzuki Hyabusa engines to form a V8. Its patented too.

Edited by toppstuff on Thursday 12th November 14:47

[RobM77]

Tinohead said:

k-ink said:

When you get to this level of performance and total impracticality you may as well get a super bike for £8k. Same result

Unless of course you can't ride a bike. Or don't want to. Or would like a passenger to sit next to you not hang onto your waist. Or many other reasons that make comparing a bike to a car pointless...

The main things being that a bike is just a different sort of thing.

Firstly, when I picture this Atom I imagine myself drifting it on the throttle at 100mph round a bend. Somehow that image doesn't come to mind when I imagine a Yamaha R1! And even if I didn't choose sideways as my chosen cornering method, the car's going to brake and corner quicker cause it's got four wheels.

Secondly, I'd be surprised if there's a bike out there that can match the Atom's real world power to weight ratio; and by real world I mean with a driver/rider onboard. The Atom with me (70kg) driving it would have a power to weight ratio of 877bhp/tonne, whereas an R1 (200kg and 190bhp?) would be only 700bhp/tonne once I climb onto it. Factor in the fact that these are dry weights not wet weights and the gap widens even more.

[k-ink]

Re: bikes... The only place you could take advantage of 877 over 700 bhp/tonne would be on a drag strip in ideal blistering heat.

[RobM77]

k-ink said:

Re: bikes... The only place you could take advantage of 877 over 700 bhp/tonne would be on a drag strip in ideal blistering heat.

True, but my first point remains. Bikes are just different from cars. Your argument holds up against any car costing more than £10k really! The reason people buy £20-30k Caterhams and Exiges etc instead of bikes is that cars offer a totally different experience to bikes. All the physics is just completely different.

[FOURRONE]

RobM77 said:

Tinohead said:

k-ink said:

When you get to this level of performance and total impracticality you may as well get a super bike for £8k. Same result

Unless of course you can't ride a bike. Or don't want to. Or would like a passenger to sit next to you not hang onto your waist. Or many other reasons that make comparing a bike to a car pointless...

The main things being that a bike is just a different sort of thing.

Firstly, when I picture this Atom I imagine myself drifting it on the throttle at 100mph round a bend. Somehow that image doesn't come to mind when I imagine a Yamaha R1! And even if I didn't choose sideways as my chosen cornering method, the car's going to brake and corner quicker cause it's got four wheels.

Secondly, I'd be surprised if there's a bike out there that can match the Atom's real world power to weight ratio; and by real world I mean with a driver/rider onboard. The Atom with me (70kg) driving it would have a power to weight ratio of 877bhp/tonne, whereas an R1 (200kg and 190bhp?) would be only 700bhp/tonne once I climb onto it. Factor in the fact that these are dry weights not wet weights and the gap widens even more.

Your right the bloke in the atom will have a bhp per ton advantage his wallet will be at least £100,000 lighter for a start, bang for buck bikes will always have the advantage and if you fully exploit the performance of a atom or superbike on the road you will end up in prison or dead

[RobM77]

FOURRONE said:

RobM77 said:

Tinohead said:

k-ink said:

When you get to this level of performance and total impracticality you may as well get a super bike for £8k. Same result

Unless of course you can't ride a bike. Or don't want to. Or would like a passenger to sit next to you not hang onto your waist. Or many other reasons that make comparing a bike to a car pointless...

The main things being that a bike is just a different sort of thing.

Firstly, when I picture this Atom I imagine myself drifting it on the throttle at 100mph round a bend. Somehow that image doesn't come to mind when I imagine a Yamaha R1! And even if I didn't choose sideways as my chosen cornering method, the car's going to brake and corner quicker cause it's got four wheels.

Secondly, I'd be surprised if there's a bike out there that can match the Atom's real world power to weight ratio; and by real world I mean with a driver/rider onboard. The Atom with me (70kg) driving it would have a power to weight ratio of 877bhp/tonne, whereas an R1 (200kg and 190bhp?) would be only 700bhp/tonne once I climb onto it. Factor in the fact that these are dry weights not wet weights and the gap widens even more.

Your right the bloke in the atom will have a bhp per ton advantage his wallet will be at least £100,000 lighter for a start, bang for buck bikes will always have the advantage and if you fully exploit the performance of a atom or superbike on the road you will end up in prison or dead

The same goes for anything with more than 400bhp/tonne to be honest though. These sorts of machines are designed for the track really.

[P4ROT]

I know everyone else has said it before but how can they justify 70k+ over the 300 for a v8 version??

[ewenm]

P4ROT said:

I know everyone else has said it before but how can they justify 70k+ over the 300 for a v8 version??

2 different responses to this:

Either "look at all the R&D needed to handle the extra power and split that cost over a mere 25 cars" or "why do they need to justify it? They are a business and obviously can sell the car at that price (19 of 25 sold)."

I'd lean towards the second one anyway regardless of the amount of R&D, why should a company have to justify a price to anyone? If you think it's overpriced, don't buy it.