RE: Ariel Atom 500 Will Cost £120,000
Discussion
I find it particulary amusing how people massively over simplify the costs and effort involved in designing and manufacturing this car... It's hardly a case of bunging a few off the shelf parts at the less mental version. Development, prototype parts et al cost a hell of a lot of money.
peterattheboro said:
£25,000 - http://pistonheads.com/sales/1062916.htm
No idea how much an engine is, £5000-£10000?
Should come in way below £120,000.
And while you are fiddling, you have enough money left over to strap on some forced induction
Now THAT would be fun!
Engine will start at about £25k. Bespoke high-revving V8s aren't cheap and you need to make all the bits yourself.No idea how much an engine is, £5000-£10000?
Should come in way below £120,000.
And while you are fiddling, you have enough money left over to strap on some forced induction
Now THAT would be fun!
Transmission will also be very specialised and in this sort of installation, it'll be several grand. Now you need a clutch to take the torque, repeatedly and without burning out. Now go and redevelop the car so that the engine mounts are robust and the suspension is retuned for a new weight distribution and chassis behaviour under wide open throttle.
Lastly you appear to be trying to walk up to the price of a new car by starting from a secondhand car's price, and have forgotten to factor in significant suspension and brake upgrades, development time and expense, tooling investment, profit, model rarity and associated exclusivity, and the risk inherent in the whole venture.
Companies don't develop cars like these to sell them on for a £1k profit - they do them to improve the brand and trouser enough wedge to make it worth their while.
19 people already think it's worth the money! I wouldn't buy one even with £45.5m in my back pocket but I understand the price and don't begrudge them it.
To the comment about a load of scaffold - yes it's a tongue-in-cheek comment, but it massively underplays the amount of design, development, investment, risk and talent that's gone into the Atom (and many many other low volume cars).
Who here can do better for cheaper? Any volunteers?
johnag007 said:
How sad, Noble at £200k, Atom at £120k. What I do not understand is that even yesterday Evo described the Atom 300 as fun and so forth but with a surplus of power over chassis. You really risk making this completely undrivable, or at least without any springs for the road.
Of course commercially if he has already sold 19 out of 26, no one can accuse him of lacking business sense. Noble I fear might not be so lucky.
Good points. If I bought one of these I would certainly be "apprehensive" about to start my first drive in it. Probably never do it justice, I am just not skilled enough and as I get older a lot more of a scaredy cat when it comes to corners.Of course commercially if he has already sold 19 out of 26, no one can accuse him of lacking business sense. Noble I fear might not be so lucky.
Andu
Hi, i've been reading ph, pritty much everyday for the past 2 years, and today, i've finaly desided it time,to sign up and contribute. I would say the price is justified as the engine in that spec, costs around the $35,000 mark.
its this engine http://www.h1v8.com/page/page/1562068.htm
its this engine http://www.h1v8.com/page/page/1562068.htm
Edited by Or888t on Wednesday 11th November 13:38
Or888t said:
Hi, i've been reading ph, pritty much everyday for the past 2 years, and today, i've finaly desided it time,to sign up and contribute. I would say the price is justified as the engine in that spec, costs around the $35,000 mark.
its this engine http://www.h1v8.com/page/page/1562068.htm
I believe the Ariel is using the RS performance v8 not the Hartley unit. But yeah, seriously pricey pieces of kit regardless!its this engine http://www.h1v8.com/page/page/1562068.htm
Edited by Or888t on Wednesday 11th November 13:38
PhillipM said:
peterattheboro said:
£25,000 - http://pistonheads.com/sales/1062916.htm
No idea how much an engine is, £5000-£10000?
Should come in way below £120,000.
And while you are fiddling, you have enough money left over to strap on some forced induction
Now THAT would be fun!
Try more like £25k for the engine, plus new suspension, bodywork bits, labour, mountings, gearbox, ancillaries, wiring loom, new ECU, reworked intake design, new exhaust system, catalysts, plus a fair but of mapping...No idea how much an engine is, £5000-£10000?
Should come in way below £120,000.
And while you are fiddling, you have enough money left over to strap on some forced induction
Now THAT would be fun!
I wouldn’t buy one as I think it’s a niche product and not a niche I want to go down, I would sooner have a high class road sports car that I could run on the road 99% of the time and take on the odd track day rather than something that is essentially a trackday weapon that you could drive on the road.
Still as a piece of engineering it looks promising.
Still as a piece of engineering it looks promising.
MSTRBKR said:
peterattheboro said:
PhillipM said:
peterattheboro said:
£25,000 - http://pistonheads.com/sales/1062916.htm
No idea how much an engine is, £5000-£10000?
Should come in way below £120,000.
And while you are fiddling, you have enough money left over to strap on some forced induction
Now THAT would be fun!
Try more like £25k for the engine, plus new suspension, bodywork bits, labour, mountings, gearbox, ancillaries, wiring loom, new ECU, reworked intake design, new exhaust system, catalysts, plus a fair but of mapping...No idea how much an engine is, £5000-£10000?
Should come in way below £120,000.
And while you are fiddling, you have enough money left over to strap on some forced induction
Now THAT would be fun!
You're forgetting a huge chunk of the cost is exclusivety. Look at the McLaren SLR, Veyron and Reventon.
I still can't believe you suggested taking a boggo Atom and bolting a massive engine to it as an alternative.
Edited by MSTRBKR on Wednesday 11th November 13:49
£120k still sounds like A LOT of money even when you add up all the bits and bobs so people will be looking at alternatives
However there are people that will pay for exclusivity. Personally, if it was my money i'd put it towards a comfortable GT that has a hell of a lot of performance
Edited by peterattheboro on Wednesday 11th November 13:55
FNG said:
peterattheboro said:
19 people already think it's worth the money! I wouldn't buy one even with £45.5m in my back pocket but I understand the price and don't begrudge them it.
Really? With £45.5million in the bank you wouldn't drop £120K on a 500bhp Go-Kart for popping out to pick up curries on Saturday night? :-)Think I'd buy 6 and rent a track to race them on with my mates, like MarioKart for real :-)
I agree though, its niche, bespoke and a typical halo project, price isn't really of any importance, you can either afford £120K or your a normal person!
Bl**dy bonkers- good luck to 'em I say!
peterattheboro said:
I understand the amount of work which has gone into this but still, £120,000 is a hell of a lot of money for some scaffolding and a V8 engine.
I'm sure some clever geeky car type could build a similar car for a quarter of the price?
Ah no this is true engineering evry bit is there because it has to be and if it wasn't it wouldn't work as such everybit has earnt its place. Add to that that 90% of what goes into making the vehicle is visable it is worth as much as they choose to charge for it.I'm sure some clever geeky car type could build a similar car for a quarter of the price?
peterattheboro said:
My post was actually said in jest but i'm sure it's entirely doable for the right enthusiast to work on and recreate a car of similar performance.
Yes, but then they don't have to pay labour costs, business rates, workshop costs, tooling for production, R&D, saftey analysis, development, prototype costs.....peterattheboro said:
My post was actually said in jest but i'm sure it's entirely doable for the right enthusiast to work on and recreate a car of similar performance.
I'm sure it is, but not profitably.If the guys at Atom weren't engaged in this project they'd be busy making money on other aspects.
They have to pay their way and the car has to wash its face economically or they wouldn't invest in it.
Give me £120k and I'm fairly sure I could build something similar to that car, but not in all honesty something better. There's too much development already gone into the Atom that takes time and money to achieve for me to be able to build a car and get it to that level of performance for the same cash, whilst supporting myself too.
peterattheboro said:
£120k still sounds like A LOT of money even when you add up all the bits and bobs so people will be looking at alternatives
What sub-£120k alternatives with 1000bhp/ton are there?They've sold most of their limited run before production starts. I don't think they're going to be very concerned about selling the last 6 examples to be produced. They'll sell.
peterattheboro said:
However there are people that will pay for exclusivity. Personally, if it was my money i'd put it towards a comfortable GT that has a hell of a lot of performance
So would I. But that's horses for courses and we'd both have spent the same money, but have half the bhp/ton scubadude said:
FNG said:
19 people already think it's worth the money! I wouldn't buy one even with £45.5m in my back pocket but I understand the price and don't begrudge them it.
Really? With £45.5million in the bank you wouldn't drop £120K on a 500bhp Go-Kart for popping out to pick up curries on Saturday night? :-)Think I'd buy 6 and rent a track to race them on with my mates, like MarioKart for real :-)
Put my mates in 6 of these and you'd have 6 piles of steaming scrap within 5 minutes, and they'd need new kecks.
Guttered said:
Or888t said:
Hi, i've been reading ph, pritty much everyday for the past 2 years, and today, i've finaly desided it time,to sign up and contribute. I would say the price is justified as the engine in that spec, costs around the $35,000 mark.
its this engine http://www.h1v8.com/page/page/1562068.htm
I believe the Ariel is using the RS performance v8 not the Hartley unit. But yeah, seriously pricey pieces of kit regardless!its this engine http://www.h1v8.com/page/page/1562068.htm
Edited by Or888t on Wednesday 11th November 13:38
O cmon, it must be, there identical!, just look at them.
What a car! I'm glad it exists purely so I can see Clarkson's face when he floors it! Oh, and watch the Stig wrestle it round a lap. To answer the other points made on this post, once you factor in the cost of the engine (the RST V8s were over £20k weren't they?), gearbox and development, £120k seems perfectly reasonable to me. How it'll cope on road tyres amazes me, and I can't wait to find out what it looks like on a quick lap; if they've cracked that one then £120k really is very reasonable!!
Someone else mentioned buying an old F1 or F3000 car. I'm no expert on this, but I would have thought the running costs of such a car would be fairly extreme. People spend £30k to £50k a year racing Caterhams, and £100k a year racing Formula Ford, so even if you just did a few tests a year, I'm sure an ex F1 car or F3000 would be a considerably more expensive prospect than this Atom.
The other points about what else you could get for the money (i.e. a Caterham R500 and a 911) don't really stand true, because this car will be bought be people who've got all of those things already. The maths for luxury items doesn't work like that - it's like saying for the cost of a £30 bottle of wine you could have a fairly decent £10 bottle plus dinner; the man who buys a £30 bottle of wine will already be able to afford dinner seperately!
Or888t said:
Guttered said:
Or888t said:
Hi, i've been reading ph, pritty much everyday for the past 2 years, and today, i've finaly desided it time,to sign up and contribute. I would say the price is justified as the engine in that spec, costs around the $35,000 mark.
its this engine http://www.h1v8.com/page/page/1562068.htm
I believe the Ariel is using the RS performance v8 not the Hartley unit. But yeah, seriously pricey pieces of kit regardless!its this engine http://www.h1v8.com/page/page/1562068.htm
Edited by Or888t on Wednesday 11th November 13:38
O cmon, it must be, there identical!, just look at them.
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