RE: Ariel Atom 500 Will Cost £120,000
Discussion
peterattheboro said:
FNG said:
What sub-£120k alternatives with 1000bhp/ton are there?
Pass! Next question 
My first thought was Caterham R500 which is 500bhp/ton.
I'm struggling to find anything over 550bhp/ton
This Atom is bloody quick!!!
Edited by ewenm on Wednesday 11th November 14:30
ewenm said:
peterattheboro said:
FNG said:
What sub-£120k alternatives with 1000bhp/ton are there?
Pass! Next question My first thought was Caterham R500 which is 500bhp/ton.
I'm struggling to find anything over 550bhp/ton
This Atom is bloody quick!!!
Edited by ewenm on Wednesday 11th November 14:30
Does anyone know if a warranty would be included on such a specialised car? Are they legally obliged to offer one?
I personally disagree with the general consensus on here; to offer a bespoke car at this price with all that it entails they must only have about 3 people working for them!
I personally disagree with the general consensus on here; to offer a bespoke car at this price with all that it entails they must only have about 3 people working for them!
daveco said:
Does anyone know if a warranty would be included on such a specialised car? Are they legally obliged to offer one?
I personally disagree with the general consensus on here; to offer a bespoke car at this price with all that it entails they must only have about 3 people working for them!
I think they do actually - at least last time I saw their factory featured on TV they did! :-)I personally disagree with the general consensus on here; to offer a bespoke car at this price with all that it entails they must only have about 3 people working for them!
I don't know if it has already been said but I am sure the price hike would be due to the amount of units that are making.
All the extra engineering development and testing, the different aero package etc etc and divide that by 25 makes that an expensive exercise if you were to sell it at something like £50k.
Take the Bugatti for example. That car (according to Clarkson) makes a loss of about £3m per car iirc but the VAG group can afford to swallow the costs as it can be recycled as future developments and publicity. Ariel are not the huge company that the VAG group are and I am sure that they need to recoup their costs a bit more quickly.
I think the car is amazing but wouldn't pay the £120,000. I think I would just buy the Caterham R500 for £35,000 and it be nearly as crazy and kill me just as quick.
All the extra engineering development and testing, the different aero package etc etc and divide that by 25 makes that an expensive exercise if you were to sell it at something like £50k.
Take the Bugatti for example. That car (according to Clarkson) makes a loss of about £3m per car iirc but the VAG group can afford to swallow the costs as it can be recycled as future developments and publicity. Ariel are not the huge company that the VAG group are and I am sure that they need to recoup their costs a bit more quickly.
I think the car is amazing but wouldn't pay the £120,000. I think I would just buy the Caterham R500 for £35,000 and it be nearly as crazy and kill me just as quick.
Loving the looks and concept, completely bonkers and so totally anti nanny state 
starting to wonder if sticking with the open sided frame is wise, surely it must play havoc with the aero at the kind of silly speeds this will be capable of, a lightweight cover down those sidebars just seems sensible to me (i'm no engineer but air ingress into the passenger comapertment must cause a fair bit of drag)
starting to wonder if sticking with the open sided frame is wise, surely it must play havoc with the aero at the kind of silly speeds this will be capable of, a lightweight cover down those sidebars just seems sensible to me (i'm no engineer but air ingress into the passenger comapertment must cause a fair bit of drag)
FNG said:
Engine will start at about £25k. Bespoke high-revving V8s aren't cheap and you need to make all the bits yourself.
Transmission will also be very specialised and in this sort of installation, it'll be several grand. Now you need a clutch to take the torque, repeatedly and without burning out. Now go and redevelop the car so that the engine mounts are robust and the suspension is retuned for a new weight distribution and chassis behaviour under wide open throttle.
Lastly you appear to be trying to walk up to the price of a new car by starting from a secondhand car's price, and have forgotten to factor in significant suspension and brake upgrades, development time and expense, tooling investment, profit, model rarity and associated exclusivity, and the risk inherent in the whole venture.
Companies don't develop cars like these to sell them on for a £1k profit - they do them to improve the brand and trouser enough wedge to make it worth their while.
Transmission will also be very specialised and in this sort of installation, it'll be several grand. Now you need a clutch to take the torque, repeatedly and without burning out. Now go and redevelop the car so that the engine mounts are robust and the suspension is retuned for a new weight distribution and chassis behaviour under wide open throttle.
Lastly you appear to be trying to walk up to the price of a new car by starting from a secondhand car's price, and have forgotten to factor in significant suspension and brake upgrades, development time and expense, tooling investment, profit, model rarity and associated exclusivity, and the risk inherent in the whole venture.
Companies don't develop cars like these to sell them on for a £1k profit - they do them to improve the brand and trouser enough wedge to make it worth their while.
MSTRBKR said:
Every (and I mean every) topic on this forum is full of computer chair engineers that think they can make a car cheaper than the manufacturer.
...
I cannot fathom the set up time and R&D that has gone into making sure a 1000bhp/ton car sticks to the road. Only 25 to be made and all those new parts and set up - totally worth the money in my opinion.
Examples of the few posts of sense in this thread....
I cannot fathom the set up time and R&D that has gone into making sure a 1000bhp/ton car sticks to the road. Only 25 to be made and all those new parts and set up - totally worth the money in my opinion.
I get more amazed every day by some of the posts that Pistonheads members put up. Does no one realise this website is for 'petrol heads'/'car nuts'/'speed freaks' (whatever you want to call us!) The sort of people who love things with 4 wheels that go stupidly quick and make no sense in today's 'be safe, be green' world. Not those that moan about price or what else you could get for the money.
This car is nuts, 1000bhp/ton!? And that's not just a lot of power thrown in the engine bay, it's a car that, going on past Atom's, will be able to use that power!
I hugely applaud Ariel for this creation, and for having the big ones to do it in these doom and gloom times. If I was in the market for some crazy track weapon that could compete with pretty much anything road legal out there - I'd love to buy this.
'I'd buy a comfortable GT for that money' - If you wanted a comfortable GT, of course you would. But (as the point was made above), if you already have a comfortable GT in the garage, as well as a super saloon/estate for shifting the family about, and you wanted something crazy you could take to the track, and you had a spare £125k in down the sofa, then this car would be a likely choice.
Come on people, this is Pistonheads, and this is a story about a stupidly quick, impractical, crazy car - who cares how much it costs?!?!
Seems every time the Atom is mentioned anywhere experts comment on how it is only a bit of scaffolding and they could make the equivalent in their garage easily.
If the car had a roof, panels and windscreen, even crappy fibreglass ones these comments would not get made this suggests that to most folks the roof, windscreen and panels are perceived as the most expensive and important bits of the car!
The reason the 500 has taken so long is the factory wanted to make sure the end result was usable on the road and not just a mental stripped out racing car, this has taken considerable time, expertise and effort all of which does not come cheap.
Ben
If the car had a roof, panels and windscreen, even crappy fibreglass ones these comments would not get made this suggests that to most folks the roof, windscreen and panels are perceived as the most expensive and important bits of the car!
The reason the 500 has taken so long is the factory wanted to make sure the end result was usable on the road and not just a mental stripped out racing car, this has taken considerable time, expertise and effort all of which does not come cheap.
Ben
Aside from the point that calling it a 'car' is debatable, on the point of 'power', 'cost' and as 'track' machine, and the fact I keep reading car mag reports where you can be mislead into thinking this actual company had been going since 1896 (in truth, less than 10 years) and that Atoms are 'RACE BRED'.
Where was it race bred?
Journos and hacks like those at EVO love to regularly give one a thrash up a hill or take it round a circuit 'to see what it can do?', and of course Clarkson's deformed g-force face in one is memorable for a laugh, but when has 'any' Atom ever beaten any other 'car' competitively - ie: in a 'real' race?
If it's labelled as 'race bred' then someone tell me when it was last out competing on the real 'track'? I go to race meetings and never seen one 'out there'... X-Bows and other oddities yes. Atoms? No.
So it has a ton of power, but what's it beaten, what will it beat... competitively?
I've seen the odd one entered in what I call 'non' races, for a bit o fun and even one at a hill climb, but that's all.
Or have I missed them in a proper competitive race up against real opposition? Perhaps even if there were a 'Atom Race Series' up against each other I could understand the 'race bred'.
Isn't that how you determine if something is 'race bred'?
Or is the truth all it can do is be bought, driven by those who like something different (read 'way out!' in this case, although there is nothing wrong with that) love paying over the odds for an expensive toy (it's not practical in any sense of the term), don't mind that when it p*sses down it has to stay in the garage or alternatively get drowned, doesn't object to having a crash helmet as an essential (a 'car' in the truest sense does not require this even as an 'option') or just use it as an expensive track day plaything that cannot be used competitively.
For the latest 120grand offering, as already pointed out in this thread, from a business point it makes ultra sound sense because a fool and his money... but please, it is not 'race bred'.
Where was it race bred?
Journos and hacks like those at EVO love to regularly give one a thrash up a hill or take it round a circuit 'to see what it can do?', and of course Clarkson's deformed g-force face in one is memorable for a laugh, but when has 'any' Atom ever beaten any other 'car' competitively - ie: in a 'real' race?
If it's labelled as 'race bred' then someone tell me when it was last out competing on the real 'track'? I go to race meetings and never seen one 'out there'... X-Bows and other oddities yes. Atoms? No.
So it has a ton of power, but what's it beaten, what will it beat... competitively?
I've seen the odd one entered in what I call 'non' races, for a bit o fun and even one at a hill climb, but that's all.
Or have I missed them in a proper competitive race up against real opposition? Perhaps even if there were a 'Atom Race Series' up against each other I could understand the 'race bred'.
Isn't that how you determine if something is 'race bred'?
Or is the truth all it can do is be bought, driven by those who like something different (read 'way out!' in this case, although there is nothing wrong with that) love paying over the odds for an expensive toy (it's not practical in any sense of the term), don't mind that when it p*sses down it has to stay in the garage or alternatively get drowned, doesn't object to having a crash helmet as an essential (a 'car' in the truest sense does not require this even as an 'option') or just use it as an expensive track day plaything that cannot be used competitively.
For the latest 120grand offering, as already pointed out in this thread, from a business point it makes ultra sound sense because a fool and his money... but please, it is not 'race bred'.
BigBen said:
The reason the 500 has taken so long is the factory wanted to make sure the end result was usable on the road and not just a mental stripped out racing car, this has taken considerable time, expertise and effort all of which does not come cheap.
Ben
This is the key. It's not just the components that you have to pay a markup on, it's the development time and costs also. All that time testing has to be recouped in the retail cost of the car. If only 25 cars are being built, then there are fewer people to share that with.Ben
I still think it's over priced and I imagine that 80% of the owners would benefit no more from the 500 than they would from a 220 for a fraction of the cost. No doubt many of them will be doomed to a life sat in a garage/hanger/warehouse amongst other collectables. I hope I'm wrong. Something this mental needs to be put to good use!
curtisl said:
I don't know if it has already been said but I am sure the price hike would be due to the amount of units that are making.
All the extra engineering development and testing, the different aero package etc etc and divide that by 25 makes that an expensive exercise if you were to sell it at something like £50k.
Take the Bugatti for example. That car (according to Clarkson) makes a loss of about £3m per car iirc but the VAG group can afford to swallow the costs as it can be recycled as future developments and publicity. Ariel are not the huge company that the VAG group are and I am sure that they need to recoup their costs a bit more quickly.
I think the car is amazing but wouldn't pay the £120,000. I think I would just buy the Caterham R500 for £35,000 and it be nearly as crazy and kill me just as quick.
All very good points and I agree with all but one,All the extra engineering development and testing, the different aero package etc etc and divide that by 25 makes that an expensive exercise if you were to sell it at something like £50k.
Take the Bugatti for example. That car (according to Clarkson) makes a loss of about £3m per car iirc but the VAG group can afford to swallow the costs as it can be recycled as future developments and publicity. Ariel are not the huge company that the VAG group are and I am sure that they need to recoup their costs a bit more quickly.
I think the car is amazing but wouldn't pay the £120,000. I think I would just buy the Caterham R500 for £35,000 and it be nearly as crazy and kill me just as quick.
The R500 can't be compared to this, as it's got 50% of the power which makes it 50% as crazy as the Ariel.
The R500 is a fantastic car and is not to be sniffed at, but this car has double the horsepower per tonne, thats gonna kill you in half the time. That makes it double as crazy.
BigBen said:
The reason the 500 has taken so long is the factory wanted to make sure the end result was usable on the road and not just a mental stripped out racing car, this has taken considerable time, expertise and effort all of which does not come cheap.
It certainly looks quite a lot like a mental stripped out race car. I'm not entirely sure anything that light with that much power will be 'usable' on the road in any meaningful sense either. If it is that'll be a real achievement.RobM77 said:
daveco said:
Does anyone know if a warranty would be included on such a specialised car? Are they legally obliged to offer one?
I personally disagree with the general consensus on here; to offer a bespoke car at this price with all that it entails they must only have about 3 people working for them!
I think they do actually - at least last time I saw their factory featured on TV they did! :-)I personally disagree with the general consensus on here; to offer a bespoke car at this price with all that it entails they must only have about 3 people working for them!
Edited by joz8968 on Wednesday 11th November 16:49
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