RE: Interview: Lee Noble / Fenix Automotive
Discussion
It does read like the article in Autocar. So there will be two Noble's out on the market one called a Noble that Lee Noble is not involved with and as yet a nameless car that Lee Noble is involved with. It seems a shame that it has happened this way and although I understand that he (Lee Noble) wants to be in contact with the customer and doesn't want things to become to big wouldn't the economies of scale which would have include development costs and tooling have enabled two cars to have been developed at a lower cost and hence be sold at lower price to the customer? if the manufacturer so desired? Just a thought. Although the new Noble has had great revues I have a feeling that when Mr. Noble's car is tested its performance will be such that one will question Noble Automotive's pricing policy. My money is with Lee Noble producing a blinder of a car. Trouble is I don't have any money left. Anyone want to purchase an M400 and a brand new GTR?
5 USA said:
LS engine - tick
Where's he going to get himself a cheap and reliable manual transaxle? Needs to be good or the torque of an LS will rip it to bits.
A £70k road car with no anti-lock (and presumably no traction control or chassis control) is unlikely to appeal to many customers. Lack of ABS will also rule out sale in North America which kills a big market for him. Putting an American compliant engine in a car which can't be sold in America sounds questionable.
Even if it all works out he's going to be competing head-to-head with another LS powered South African sports car, the Perana z-one
http://www.perana.com/Z-one.aspx
With the production numbers he's talking about I do not think he needs worry about the US.Where's he going to get himself a cheap and reliable manual transaxle? Needs to be good or the torque of an LS will rip it to bits.
A £70k road car with no anti-lock (and presumably no traction control or chassis control) is unlikely to appeal to many customers. Lack of ABS will also rule out sale in North America which kills a big market for him. Putting an American compliant engine in a car which can't be sold in America sounds questionable.
Even if it all works out he's going to be competing head-to-head with another LS powered South African sports car, the Perana z-one
http://www.perana.com/Z-one.aspx
They don't do a V8 but they do make a W8 that you could get in the Passat and I believe the Phaeton/Toureg. I doubt it'll be either of them though as neither is particularly powerful.
I'm with the others that suspect the LS engine from the Corvette will be the powerplant of choice for this.
I'm with the others that suspect the LS engine from the Corvette will be the powerplant of choice for this.
Mars said:
I might be wrong, but there was a big hint about the power source... the word "reliable" was used with emphasis and I can't help wonder if this alluded to the "If only everything in life was as reliable as a VW". Does VW have a V8?
If not, then I think the LS makes a lot of sense.
VW as a badge doesn't, however VAG does - in Audi guise.If not, then I think the LS makes a lot of sense.
marcosgt said:
My guess was German of some sort - kind of hope it's not the ubiquitious LS1, but I'm sure it's a fine engine.
I totally agree. The LS-1 is fabulous but a European engine would sort of "feel" better to my European sensibilities. Over here, you don't need 6-litres to make 400bhp. I don't even know why that's important to me but it sort of is.I would think that the reliability quote could well relate to the LS engine, unless it is a Toyota/Lexus unit. US engines have to be capable of 100k miles with almost zero maintenance, meaning that reliability is pretty much built in. Also, if aiming for a £75k price tag I doubt that there is anything available from sources other than the US which would enable this to happen - BMW/VAG/Toyota would probably be 2 or 3 times the price of a GM or Ford unit.
If the lack of ABS limits the potential customers I doubt Lee will be worried judging from the comments made - there are surely 100 people each year who might like what he is aiming to offer. If he wanted to shift 10000 cars it might be different, but he isn't really competing in that arena.
Finally, how much might Smolenski want for the TVR name? He paid a lot to the receiver to buy it back.
If the lack of ABS limits the potential customers I doubt Lee will be worried judging from the comments made - there are surely 100 people each year who might like what he is aiming to offer. If he wanted to shift 10000 cars it might be different, but he isn't really competing in that arena.
Finally, how much might Smolenski want for the TVR name? He paid a lot to the receiver to buy it back.
I really doubt Lee Noble would want the TVR name. It is associated with shoddy build quality in many people's minds (check my garage before slagging me off for that comment). Nobles and TVRs are often compared but they are more often contrasted. Besides the question of build quality, they are poles apart in terms of their design.
Also, if Morgan can produce the Aero-8 with a BMW V8, surely they can't be that expensive. How many a year does Morgan produce? I bet it's no greater than the 100 units Lee Noble is hoping to produce, so a European engine shouldn't be prohibitively expensive.
Either way, I won't be a customer. I wish I could afford one.
Also, if Morgan can produce the Aero-8 with a BMW V8, surely they can't be that expensive. How many a year does Morgan produce? I bet it's no greater than the 100 units Lee Noble is hoping to produce, so a European engine shouldn't be prohibitively expensive.
Either way, I won't be a customer. I wish I could afford one.
Mars said:
I really doubt Lee Noble would want the TVR name. It is associated with shoddy build quality in many people's minds (check my garage before slagging me off for that comment). Nobles and TVRs are often compared but they are more often contrasted. Besides the question of build quality, they are poles apart in terms of their design.
Also, if Morgan can produce the Aero-8 with a BMW V8, surely they can't be that expensive. How many a year does Morgan produce? I bet it's no greater than the 100 units Lee Noble is hoping to produce, so a European engine shouldn't be prohibitively expensive.
Either way, I won't be a customer. I wish I could afford one.
Good point about the BMW/Morgan tie up, I had forgotten that. There is a close relationship between the two companies regarding this, however, and that may be reflected in the price and Noble may not enjoy the same relationship, but what do I know?Also, if Morgan can produce the Aero-8 with a BMW V8, surely they can't be that expensive. How many a year does Morgan produce? I bet it's no greater than the 100 units Lee Noble is hoping to produce, so a European engine shouldn't be prohibitively expensive.
Either way, I won't be a customer. I wish I could afford one.
Hardly fitting talk for PistonHeaders, but this is roughly what happened to Bentley, pre-war (that's WW2, not a Gulf War, Falklands War etc etc)
Bently went t*ts up in the Great Depression around 1930 and the right to use the Bentley name went with the company. Rolls Royce acquired it. Eventually, Bentley the man joined Lagonda, they won Le Mans (again) and he was only thwarted by WWII in not p***ing all over RR and their Bentley versions with his Lagondas.
Given Lee Noble is brilliant bloke, with a backer who agrees with his small is beautiful approach (2 cars a week) - then he is going to be much happier and therefore creative with his new set up. Yes, the Fenix name is a bit silly but compare it to computers : 'Brand x, powered by Intel'. 'Fenix, created by Lee Noble' should have them queueing round the block. Hope so.
No way would he be happy with a TVR set up. How much classier to join the queue and collect your keys from the company owner.
Bit like Aston Martin used to be. So good to see him back.
Bently went t*ts up in the Great Depression around 1930 and the right to use the Bentley name went with the company. Rolls Royce acquired it. Eventually, Bentley the man joined Lagonda, they won Le Mans (again) and he was only thwarted by WWII in not p***ing all over RR and their Bentley versions with his Lagondas.
Given Lee Noble is brilliant bloke, with a backer who agrees with his small is beautiful approach (2 cars a week) - then he is going to be much happier and therefore creative with his new set up. Yes, the Fenix name is a bit silly but compare it to computers : 'Brand x, powered by Intel'. 'Fenix, created by Lee Noble' should have them queueing round the block. Hope so.
No way would he be happy with a TVR set up. How much classier to join the queue and collect your keys from the company owner.
Bit like Aston Martin used to be. So good to see him back.
Edited by mark3man on Wednesday 18th November 18:13
Agree. There is only one Lee Noble and if he pulls it off and the new car is as good as we all hope it will be, and it will be better than good; dare I say Lee Noble could be hailed as the Colin Chapman, though using larger engines, of the modern era. I can't be the only one who has said that. "Sacrilege" I hear all the Lotus fans say. Well I have owned Lotus's that were built when Chapman was still alive so tough if you don't like it. Yes one was Loads Of Trouble Bla bla bla.
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