RE: PH Heroes: Mercedes 300 E AMG Hammer
Discussion
Whoa there ! This wasn't the First AMG hot saloon by any stretch. That Honor belongs to a red metallic W109 300SEL 6.3 named by the German Magazine Auto motor und sport in 1972 as the "smoke machine". It had a 6.8 liter version of legendary mercedes M-100 engine and could rip zero to 60 mph under 6 seconds .
AMG made their own heads and ground special cams for these and were available in three stages.
I doubt they kept records at all for a lot of these cars prior to the Mercedes Merger so you can never get any more info than what was available from the German magazines of the day. Some info comes from those enthusiasts lucky enough to have rediscovered them in the 80's and 90's when they were forgotten about by the motoring public at large.
Don't forget that a standard 300SEL 6.3 does 0-60 in 6.5 seconds and a good driver can do the 1/4 mile around 14 seconds.
AMG made their own heads and ground special cams for these and were available in three stages.
I doubt they kept records at all for a lot of these cars prior to the Mercedes Merger so you can never get any more info than what was available from the German magazines of the day. Some info comes from those enthusiasts lucky enough to have rediscovered them in the 80's and 90's when they were forgotten about by the motoring public at large.
Don't forget that a standard 300SEL 6.3 does 0-60 in 6.5 seconds and a good driver can do the 1/4 mile around 14 seconds.
Just been reading the article on the Hammer.....I owned one of the two RHD Hammers produced.....great car which sounded like a Nascar V8 rather than a more sober suited Merc V8, ie such as the 500E
At 100mph you were only turning over at 2800 revs, but kick down through the box and it was absolutely devastating and would leave a lot of modern high performance cars in its dust and only really felt like it was coming into its stride once you got past 100mph.
My particular Hammer was a very early car....late 1985 and was the UK press car for the UK AMG Agents, Strattons and it appeared in a couple of motoring mags at the time.
Just to add to the bits missed out in the article, only @ 29 Hammers were produced of which less than 10 were saloons the rest coupes, of which the bulk were sold in the US. The limited numbers produced was down to price....the last 6.0 Coupes were retailed out at $161,000
Having owned an E500 as well, they are very different animals....the E500 is a great car but is basically a big, refined and very rapid trans European Express, whereas the Hammer was raw, uncouth, prone to hissy fits and sounded absolutely awesome and went like stink.
The other fast W124 Merc that makes an E500 look tame is the relatively rare Twin Turbo conversion by Turbo Technics....now they are really, really fun cars and in some ways are the best of the lot as they are seriously fast (350bhp from the 3.2 litre and in a relatively light and aerodynamic bodyshell) and are best in a completely standard body, ie with no bodykit. I had one of these in 3.0 guise which looked like an old taxi and had little 15" alloys, but did that thing shift and was a lot of fun on the autobahn......I now have a E320 with the TT kit and its in the process of being fettled to get it back on the road, having not been used for many years.
As for the Hammer....it was sold a couple of years ago and no longer lives in the UK, but the other right hand drive Hammer resurfaced a couple of years ago,was refurbished and now lives with a very suitable MB Fan who I suspect will be buried in it when he dies.
At 100mph you were only turning over at 2800 revs, but kick down through the box and it was absolutely devastating and would leave a lot of modern high performance cars in its dust and only really felt like it was coming into its stride once you got past 100mph.
My particular Hammer was a very early car....late 1985 and was the UK press car for the UK AMG Agents, Strattons and it appeared in a couple of motoring mags at the time.
Just to add to the bits missed out in the article, only @ 29 Hammers were produced of which less than 10 were saloons the rest coupes, of which the bulk were sold in the US. The limited numbers produced was down to price....the last 6.0 Coupes were retailed out at $161,000
Having owned an E500 as well, they are very different animals....the E500 is a great car but is basically a big, refined and very rapid trans European Express, whereas the Hammer was raw, uncouth, prone to hissy fits and sounded absolutely awesome and went like stink.
The other fast W124 Merc that makes an E500 look tame is the relatively rare Twin Turbo conversion by Turbo Technics....now they are really, really fun cars and in some ways are the best of the lot as they are seriously fast (350bhp from the 3.2 litre and in a relatively light and aerodynamic bodyshell) and are best in a completely standard body, ie with no bodykit. I had one of these in 3.0 guise which looked like an old taxi and had little 15" alloys, but did that thing shift and was a lot of fun on the autobahn......I now have a E320 with the TT kit and its in the process of being fettled to get it back on the road, having not been used for many years.
As for the Hammer....it was sold a couple of years ago and no longer lives in the UK, but the other right hand drive Hammer resurfaced a couple of years ago,was refurbished and now lives with a very suitable MB Fan who I suspect will be buried in it when he dies.
Vladster said:
Just been reading the article on the Hammer.....I owned one of the two RHD Hammers produced.....great car which sounded like a Nascar V8 rather than a more sober suited Merc V8, ie such as the 500E
At 100mph you were only turning over at 2800 revs, but kick down through the box and it was absolutely devastating and would leave a lot of modern high performance cars in its dust and only really felt like it was coming into its stride once you got past 100mph.
My particular Hammer was a very early car....late 1985 and was the UK press car for the UK AMG Agents, Strattons and it appeared in a couple of motoring mags at the time.
Just to add to the bits missed out in the article, only @ 29 Hammers were produced of which less than 10 were saloons the rest coupes, of which the bulk were sold in the US. The limited numbers produced was down to price....the last 6.0 Coupes were retailed out at $161,000
Having owned an E500 as well, they are very different animals....the E500 is a great car but is basically a big, refined and very rapid trans European Express, whereas the Hammer was raw, uncouth, prone to hissy fits and sounded absolutely awesome and went like stink.
The other fast W124 Merc that makes an E500 look tame is the relatively rare Twin Turbo conversion by Turbo Technics....now they are really, really fun cars and in some ways are the best of the lot as they are seriously fast (350bhp from the 3.2 litre and in a relatively light and aerodynamic bodyshell) and are best in a completely standard body, ie with no bodykit. I had one of these in 3.0 guise which looked like an old taxi and had little 15" alloys, but did that thing shift and was a lot of fun on the autobahn......I now have a E320 with the TT kit and its in the process of being fettled to get it back on the road, having not been used for many years.
As for the Hammer....it was sold a couple of years ago and no longer lives in the UK, but the other right hand drive Hammer resurfaced a couple of years ago,was refurbished and now lives with a very suitable MB Fan who I suspect will be buried in it when he dies.
Great post Vlad,At 100mph you were only turning over at 2800 revs, but kick down through the box and it was absolutely devastating and would leave a lot of modern high performance cars in its dust and only really felt like it was coming into its stride once you got past 100mph.
My particular Hammer was a very early car....late 1985 and was the UK press car for the UK AMG Agents, Strattons and it appeared in a couple of motoring mags at the time.
Just to add to the bits missed out in the article, only @ 29 Hammers were produced of which less than 10 were saloons the rest coupes, of which the bulk were sold in the US. The limited numbers produced was down to price....the last 6.0 Coupes were retailed out at $161,000
Having owned an E500 as well, they are very different animals....the E500 is a great car but is basically a big, refined and very rapid trans European Express, whereas the Hammer was raw, uncouth, prone to hissy fits and sounded absolutely awesome and went like stink.
The other fast W124 Merc that makes an E500 look tame is the relatively rare Twin Turbo conversion by Turbo Technics....now they are really, really fun cars and in some ways are the best of the lot as they are seriously fast (350bhp from the 3.2 litre and in a relatively light and aerodynamic bodyshell) and are best in a completely standard body, ie with no bodykit. I had one of these in 3.0 guise which looked like an old taxi and had little 15" alloys, but did that thing shift and was a lot of fun on the autobahn......I now have a E320 with the TT kit and its in the process of being fettled to get it back on the road, having not been used for many years.
As for the Hammer....it was sold a couple of years ago and no longer lives in the UK, but the other right hand drive Hammer resurfaced a couple of years ago,was refurbished and now lives with a very suitable MB Fan who I suspect will be buried in it when he dies.
This is suitably subtle and surely one of the ultimate sleepers:
http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C62835/
Edited by buccal on Monday 4th January 21:13
Gridl0k said:
stats007 said:
I don't think anyone is going to pay £150k for any W124 - be it an E73 or not.
The last one I saw for sale was up for €250K (car in Monaco, seller in Moscow...) - not sure if it sold but seeing how there's less than 20 in the world (only AMG know, and they're not saying) I'm sure you could find a buyer at a price not dissimilar.One of the most legendary Mercs ever made with one of the finest engines Germany has ever produced, in a package only available to those who knew to ask? In a world where internal combustion has a shelf life (for us plebs) and all the "new" money (Russia, China, Middle East) comes from countries where the 3 pointed star is next to godliness?
I'd bet you people will.
Lovely article, and looking outside to my w124 300ce which I still think looks stunning I long for a TT conversion on it. Proper solid car, still have to remind myself its 18 years old sometimes. MOT next week and I doubt it will bring anything up.
god don't tempt me
http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C62835/
god don't tempt me
http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C62835/
Edited by tuscan_al on Tuesday 5th January 00:55
stats007 said:
Highly unlikely given the rarer and much nicer SL73 AMG can be bought for half that amount.
It's not rarer - there's probably a couple hundred in the Middle East alone? The Ranbow Sheik has more than one, iirc, and the Sultan of Brunei appears to own at least 5 judging by the various photo threads of his brother's collection.They're worth what people will pay for them and given the limited supply and appreciating nature of truly rare cars it wouldn't surprise me to see north of 100K for an E73.
Rollcage said:
dpbird90 said:
Gridl0k said:
Are you suggesting the LFA is made by Toyota? 
Lexus, Toyota. It's the same thingGridl0k said:
stats007 said:
Highly unlikely given the rarer and much nicer SL73 AMG can be bought for half that amount.
It's not rarer - there's probably a couple hundred in the Middle East alone? The Ranbow Sheik has more than one, iirc, and the Sultan of Brunei appears to own at least 5 judging by the various photo threads of his brother's collection.They're worth what people will pay for them and given the limited supply and appreciating nature of truly rare cars it wouldn't surprise me to see north of 100K for an E73.
Rarity doesn't always equate to high value - probably a reason this hasn't sold in a year and didn't get much interest when it was half the price. Another of the Sultan's 'creations' is listed here - the price is again very optimistic.
nouze said:
Rollcage said:
dpbird90 said:
Gridl0k said:
Are you suggesting the LFA is made by Toyota?
Lexus, Toyota. It's the same thingI am not sure of the precise details, but I think some time in 2005/2006 Lexus became an standalone organisation within Toyota. I would view them as an entirely separate manufacturer. Who owns who is largely irrelevant.
900T-R said:
Hmm, having started my career as a car hack I must say it's not only the French...
Boring cars -> overweight boring cars with toys
Small Japanese cars -> small Japanese cars with more airbags and lower EU driving cycle consumption that somehow doesn't translate into the real world
Alfa 156 -> Alfa 159 From lithe and full of verve to a bloated would-be German
BMW E46->E90 early E46s were a bit shakey, but I think I'd have a late one over its successor
E39->E60 as above
Mini R50 -> R56 Better engine but lost a touch of the magic in its steering
Ford Focus Mk1 -> Ford Focus Mk2 The newer one has lost is freshness and is not as engaging to drive either; engines haven't changed much and well off the pace now
Loads of cars that have 'done an Elvis' in that they became fat and rubbish. Especially Peugeots.
I guess it's each to his own then, but out of those you've mentioned the only car I've experienced both new and old in close enough succession and spec to make an objective judgement is the Focus. I own a mk1.5, but jumping into a Mk2.5 it struck me as quieter, much more comfortable, less body roll, very similar steering feel, same fuel economy, although slightly worse secondary ride and fractionally slower. Generally a nicer car, DEFINITELY a better every day car for my needs.Boring cars -> overweight boring cars with toys
Small Japanese cars -> small Japanese cars with more airbags and lower EU driving cycle consumption that somehow doesn't translate into the real world
Alfa 156 -> Alfa 159 From lithe and full of verve to a bloated would-be German
BMW E46->E90 early E46s were a bit shakey, but I think I'd have a late one over its successor
E39->E60 as above
Mini R50 -> R56 Better engine but lost a touch of the magic in its steering
Ford Focus Mk1 -> Ford Focus Mk2 The newer one has lost is freshness and is not as engaging to drive either; engines haven't changed much and well off the pace now
Loads of cars that have 'done an Elvis' in that they became fat and rubbish. Especially Peugeots.
I suppose it depends what you want from a car. For me making something like a Focus 50% more livable and 5% less involving to drive while maintaining objective handling and response is an acceptable compromise.
I personally think most people test drive the cars that fit their needs and choose the one they like best based on feelings. I think Journo's are the same; a journo wouldn't be in the industry if they weren't a car enthusiast, and you can't really be a car enthusiast without being a driving enthusiast. I often think Journo's might place a disproportionate value on this notion of involvement and feedback when reviewing a car. One man's feedback is another man's NVH.
You often see the cars with mediocre reviews regaining significant ground against the higher rated equivalent stuff when the journo is forced to live with the machines for more than a weekend's blat across the highlands, and I think new vs. old is the same.
However I do agree that segments seem to go through cycles of increasing insipidity (probably fuelled by customer clinics) punctuated by a model every few iterations that makes an effort to bring back the sparkle (e.g. the Focus vs Escort), what I disagree with is that the game isn't gradually moved on. The tech does move on, even if it isn't always employed in the way we'd all like.
For example I had a mk6 Escort for a couple of weeks and it was nowhere near as bad as I expected! The steering was a bit woolly, the damping was a bit baggier and it understeered a bit more than the Focus for no real difference in refinement, but the more noticable differences to me (a petrolhead) were the fact that it had less room in the back, looked as dull as ditchwater and had an uglier interior!
P.S. Sorry for the essay, and all I've managed to do is get back to my original statement of 'each to his own'!
Edited by The Wookie on Tuesday 5th January 14:21
Rollcage said:
dpbird90 said:
Gridl0k said:
Are you suggesting the LFA is made by Toyota?
Lexus, Toyota. It's the same thingLexus essentially translates as Luxury Export for the US market
Lexus IS200 outside japan, called Toyota Altezza in Japan is just one of many examples
Midshipracer said:
Rollcage said:
dpbird90 said:
Gridl0k said:
Are you suggesting the LFA is made by Toyota?
Lexus, Toyota. It's the same thingLexus essentially translates as Luxury Export for the US market
Lexus IS200 outside japan, called Toyota Altezza in Japan is just one of many examples
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