The "BMWs are crap in the snow because they're RWD" thing...

[reggie82]

I can't beleive this thread is still going lol. You're not even arguing the same thing. One of you is saying winter tyres are better than summer tyres in the snow (which is true), and the other is saying on summer tyres FWD is preferable to RWD (which is true).

Can't you agree you are both right but both talking about totally different things?

[kambites]

reggie82 said:

I can't beleive this thread is still going lol. You're not even arguing the same thing. One of you is saying winter tyres are better than summer tyres in the snow (which is true), and the other is saying on summer tyres FWD is preferable to RWD (which is true).

Can't you agree you are both right but both talking about totally different things?

Stupid isn't it.

[Rollcage]

Blue Meanie said:

Urban Sports said:

Rollcage said:

The point Blue Meanie is missing and which is very much present in the other countries to which he alludes, is that there is very little culture of fitting winter spec tyres in the UK.

Maybe that will change after this winter, but probably not by much. Most people will not consider it worthwhile, or too much trouble.

That was the point I was trying to make to her but she just didn't get it!!

Bless.

Seriously? You don't think I brought this point up? I haven't mentioned about idiots who refuse to buy the correct tyre for the situation? Are you two mental?

Jingoism aside BM, by your reckoning 99.5% of the UK population are idiots in that case, because they do not have winter tyres!
As I said, in many parts of Europe and the USA, winter tyres are essential to maintain travel for months of the year, every year. You can argue all you like (and no one is disagreeing about the effectiveness of winter tyres), but in the UK this simply is not the case, and it is not in people's mindsets to consider putting them on.

On a slightly different subject, it would be good to see some comparison tests of winter versus summer tyres in wet,cold but not freezing temperatures - much more relevant to UK useage most of the time. If they are of a worthwhile benefit in those situations, then many more people would consider them, I suspect.

[otolith]

Rollcage said:

On a slightly different subject, it would be good to see some comparison tests of winter versus summer tyres in wet,cold but not freezing temperatures - much more relevant to UK useage most of the time. If they are of a worthwhile benefit in those situations, then many more people would consider them, I suspect.

Some tyre companies are trying to get away from the idea that they are only for use in snow and ice by selling them as "cold weather tyres".

See

http://www.michelin.co.uk/michelinuk/en/car-4x4-va...

[rb5230]

Blue Meanie said:

Folks on here are all too quick to dismiss opinion that has actual sever snow experience, and rather will side with the numpties who will have inadequate shoes on their cars. Go figure.

so if you lived in a country where you might get snow every 7 years you would make sure you had snow tyres? which over here are not $200, more like £600, so maybe a thousand of your dollars for weather that might never happen?

and so you buy these tyres and it doesnt snow for 3 years, then you buy another car, would you then buy another set of expensive tyres you might never use "just in case"? if so you must have a lot of
spare money which most people just dont have.

please answer this blue meanie. i dont think folks are dismissing what you are saying, but it just is not applicable in a country that hardly ever sees snow.

[Crusoe]

Another issue for the latest crop of larger german cars is the electronic parking brake, used my habdbrake to help get traction moving off in my z4 quite a few times this week but don't think you could use the same technique with an on or off switch.

[Blue Meanie]

rb5230 said:

Blue Meanie said:

Folks on here are all too quick to dismiss opinion that has actual sever snow experience, and rather will side with the numpties who will have inadequate shoes on their cars. Go figure.

so if you lived in a country where you might get snow every 7 years you would make sure you had snow tyres? which over here are not $200, more like £600, so maybe a thousand of your dollars for weather that might never happen?

and so you buy these tyres and it doesnt snow for 3 years, then you buy another car, would you then buy another set of expensive tyres you might never use "just in case"? if so you must have a lot of
spare money which most people just dont have.

please answer this blue meanie. i dont think folks are dismissing what you are saying, but it just is not applicable in a country that hardly ever sees snow.

If you can't get out of your drive and it's as perilous as some of you make out, then yes. It's far easier on the brain if you don't have to worry so much about that hill, or this corner.

[monthefish]

Urban Sports said:

Dick_Phallus said:

I always thought BMW was poorly represented in the 'car stuck in snow' films on the news because they are rear wheel drive, but crucially are bought by people with no enthusiasm for driving whatsoever, they just wanted the badge. Therefore you get people who haven't got any driving skills getting into all sorts of trouble, when they'd have been fine if they'd gone for the other favourite of the badge-boner brigade, a FWD or Quattro Audi.

A slight generalisation?

There are a fair few car enthusiasts on here who own BMW's, me included.

My driving skills are fine thank you very much, I didn't get into trouble today purely because I knew the limitations of my car. I therefore used a car that was better in the snow.

This thread could have ended after this (^^) was posted on page 1...

[Rollcage]

Gaz. said:

Blue Meanie said:

But that's not what you're doing. Many people have posted that the BMW's have big wide tyres compared to the fwd 'shopping carts'. Surely a fair test would be the same weight of car, with the same size, and type of tyre? Until that happens, it is simply a question of 'wrong tyre.

The make of tyres on my Golf are different to my BMW's but they are both 225/45/16 year round tyres, the kerb wights for both are 1240kg for the BMW and 1287kg for the Golf. Power is 140bhp for the BMW, 148bhp for the Golf and the same again for the torque at peak but the Golf has shedloads more torque under 5000rpm but the BMW has shorter gearing to compensate.

I'm not the Stig but I'm not Maureen from Britains Worst Driver either yet I find my Golf is so much better on snow.

More weight over the driven wheels.

[Lost soul]

rb5230 said:

[and so you buy these tyres and it doesnt snow for 3 years, then you buy another car, would you then buy another set of expensive tyres you might never use "just in case"? if so you must have a lot of
spare money which most people just dont have.

As in Sweden - Denmark when you sell your car you use the winter wheel - tyres as a barganing chip , or in some cases the winter wheels are swappable onto your new car

[dom180]

kambites said:

otolith said:

kambites said:

I suspect 0% of Elises are on winter tyres (since I don't think anyone makes them in the right size ), therefore the performance of an Elise on winter tyres makes bugger all difference to anyone.

All S1 tyres seem to be easily available. S2 Rears are easy, fronts less so. Can't find any in 175/55/16, but loads in 195/50/16 (was that the optional wider front tyre package from Lotus?).

Yes but the rims were different too. They don't fit happily on the narrower rims.

Actually Elise S1 and S2 fronts wheels are same width.

[MGJohn]

Here's a BMW coping quite well with snow and ice :~

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTYvwNip0zM&fea...

...

==========

[Urban Sports]

The handbrake has frozen on my other car :lol: so I spent the day clearing my drive, it's about 40 foot so did take most of the day.

I finally got my BMW out and as soon as I got on the road it got stuck.

It took me and my neighbour about a hour to free it from the same snow / ice that many other cars had no difficulty in, this is the same stretch of road that my next door but one neighbours e90 also got stuck along with my Brothers new e90.

I finally got mine up the drive back into the garage and went out in the other car only to have to turn around because there were 2 e46's stuck at the bottom of the hill.

It is not only BMW's though, there was an abandoned IS220 Lexus and a C Class Merc near to my Gym as well.

It probably is due to the tyres but as others have stated none of the FWD cars that are driving round are on winter tyres!!!

[MGJohn]

Urban Sports said:

... .... From all my observations from those far worse conditions back in winter 1962-3 and since, it's RWD related.
..

[gp1699]

i got sick of geting stuck in my auto e46 so i put 2 space savers on the back and i have had no problems!!

[Rollcage]

MGJohn said:

Urban Sports said:

... .... From all my observations from those far worse conditions back in winter 1962-3 and since, it's RWD related.
..

To be strictly accurate, it is weight distribution related. Classic Beetles are pretty good in the snow, for many reasons.

Most RWD are at best 50/50 balanced, most FWD are more nose heavy, and together with typically narrower tyres have an in built advantage.

Nothing you dont know there though!

[10 Pence Short]

People are not interested in being sympathetic with the controls, either. I've had lifts from a number of people in the past couple of weeks, verging from the sublime to the same on/off attitude to brakes, steering and throttle they have in the dry.

RWD is only going to make the throttle stabbers less succussful, which isn't necessarily the fault of the driven wheels.

[Rollcage]

10 Pence Short said:

People are not interested in being sympathetic with the controls, either. I've had lifts from a number of people in the past couple of weeks, verging from the sublime to the same on/off attitude to brakes, steering and throttle they have in the dry.

RWD is only going to make the throttle stabbers less succussful, which isn't necessarily the fault of the driven wheels.

I often think that modern safety aids like ABS, PASM, DSC etc are great for keeping things reigned in, but do encourage a ham-fisted approach to driving, as you have said. Finesse is no longer needed in many cars with such aids - just stamp on the pedal,heave the steering and the car sorts itself out.

Drivers then forget how to drive with any sympathy when the conditions dictate it, and the cars ,though good, cannot defeat the laws of physics and end up parked in a hedge or the back of someone already in a hedge.

[otolith]

I'm not sure that it's a modern electronics problem - the vast majority of drivers are so far from the limits of what their car can do that this weather is probably the first time they have triggered any of their electronic nannies.

[john_p]

gp1699 said:

i got sick of geting stuck in my auto e46 so i put 2 space savers on the back and i have had no problems!!

Ahh this is an awesome idea! Shame I only have one spacesaver though