RE: Shelby Cobra Daytona Coupe CSX9000
Discussion
What's going on here? The superperformance original looked closer to the mark than this. It's far too low, and the wheels are far too big - any 60's era car on too much rim just looks pimped. I guess the 'merkins love that though. Lack of a factory engine option gives it a bit of an air of kit car, which is unappealing (to me) given the likely cost of the thing.
Mind you, I thought the Superperformance original had too much going on - I always wanted one with a smaller 289 engine, four speed box and skinnier tyres. Would've just been more 'right'. But I also sat in one and decided the ergonomics were so unsuited to my frame that I'd be afraid to drive it if it were powered by a K-series.
Still the best looking bodyshell ever put on earth though, to my eyes, and I would buy one in a heartbeat if I was sufficiently loaded.
Mind you, I thought the Superperformance original had too much going on - I always wanted one with a smaller 289 engine, four speed box and skinnier tyres. Would've just been more 'right'. But I also sat in one and decided the ergonomics were so unsuited to my frame that I'd be afraid to drive it if it were powered by a K-series.
Still the best looking bodyshell ever put on earth though, to my eyes, and I would buy one in a heartbeat if I was sufficiently loaded.
marcosgt said:
curveking said:
They were nick named the cheetah when they first came out to race.
Really? Isn't the Cheetah a different, but rather similar, looking coupe?M.
torchy6 said:
What's with the 9000 monicker? Doesn't seem to refer to anything (unless they are planning a nine litre!)
Chassis number series. Shelby uses the CSX prefix to 1000 series for the chassis numbers.The original Cobras started off with the CSX2000 and then the 427's were in the 3000 series and all the subsequent 'continuation' cars have gone 4000, etc. So, 9000 is pressumably the next in the sequence.
torchy6 said:
Yeah, brave taking it out in the snow, I bet it handled like dream: rolleyes: Shelby is a tart, will sign anything for a price! I have always loved this car, the rear view is the best and the further forward you get the uglier it becomes. What's with the 9000 monicker? Doesn't seem to refer to anything (unless they are planning a nine litre!) and what's the price? Still want one tho', with the right engine that is.
I love it, but there are also other companies producing replicas of the Daytona, such as Factory Five Racing. These others don't carry the Shelby name, which is how I would prefer it. Not only are some of them far more affordable, but I lost all respect for Shelby when he started suing Cobra replica companies. Shelby did amazing work with Ford in the 60's. Later, his Series 1 looked cool but had all sorts of problems. Hey, not everything one touches can turn to gold. I respected him for making an effort and trying his formula again in a then modern car.I remember him saying in an article on Cobra kits some thirty years ago in Road & Track magazine about how he didn't understand why people were so enamored with a car that was already old when he started with them but more power to them. Years later, he got started with his own Shelby Cobra kits with CSX numbers, and I thought that was a good idea. Why shouldn't he make money with the car that he came up with.
But when he decided to sue them, however, I thought he just looked like a pathetic old man. Years later, after settling the lawsuit with Factory Five, which stated that they could keep making the cars but could not use the names, Shelby, Cobra, etc., which they already were not using, he tried suing them again in late 2009. Pathetic.
Miguel
Edited by Miguel on Saturday 16th January 09:51
Good pic dinkel, that's how big the wheels should be! More pics of the original auctioned by Mecum last year here:
http://www.autoblog.com/gallery/1965-shelby-dayton...
http://www.classicdriver.com/uk/magazine/3200.asp?...
http://www.speedlimit.org.uk/faq.html#SEVENTY
And finally, there's simply never a bad time to re-post this. Those funny headers really cook up an extraordinary sound:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qW-bc8FFZ1A
http://www.autoblog.com/gallery/1965-shelby-dayton...
Robert060379 said:
Very cool, but this car is also the reason why we have a motorway speed limit. 
Aparently not this one (the Shelby car) - the story is that it was the AC works car of the same period:http://www.classicdriver.com/uk/magazine/3200.asp?...
http://www.speedlimit.org.uk/faq.html#SEVENTY
And finally, there's simply never a bad time to re-post this. Those funny headers really cook up an extraordinary sound:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qW-bc8FFZ1A
Edited by Hoofty on Saturday 16th January 11:31
Hoofty said:
What's going on here? The superperformance original looked closer to the mark than this. It's far too low, and the wheels are far too big - any 60's era car on too much rim just looks pimped. I guess the 'merkins love that though. Lack of a factory engine option gives it a bit of an air of kit car, which is unappealing (to me) given the likely cost of the thing.
Mind you, I thought the Superperformance original had too much going on - I always wanted one with a smaller 289 engine, four speed box and skinnier tyres. Would've just been more 'right'. But I also sat in one and decided the ergonomics were so unsuited to my frame that I'd be afraid to drive it if it were powered by a K-series.
Still the best looking bodyshell ever put on earth though, to my eyes, and I would buy one in a heartbeat if I was sufficiently loaded.
Wasn't there some talk of Peter Brock having been able to redesign this car for Superformance the way he wanted to do the original but couldn't because back then he had to use the original Cobra's dimensions? I could be wrong, but I think I remember something along those lines. There are also issues of the people who dreamed of the originals as kids only having money to fulfill their dreams when they get older, by which time they can't deal with the lack of room and bad ergonomics of such an uncompromising car, therefore they change things around to fit these older, now larger folks better.Mind you, I thought the Superperformance original had too much going on - I always wanted one with a smaller 289 engine, four speed box and skinnier tyres. Would've just been more 'right'. But I also sat in one and decided the ergonomics were so unsuited to my frame that I'd be afraid to drive it if it were powered by a K-series.
Still the best looking bodyshell ever put on earth though, to my eyes, and I would buy one in a heartbeat if I was sufficiently loaded.
As for the larger wheels, fat tires, and monster engines, that is the American way, but when it comes to such cars, many others who like them also share that taste of fitting the largest displacement engine that will fit under the hood and the fattest tires that can be crammed under the fenders. I personally don't like wheels of huge diameters but concede that they do have the advantage of allowing huge diameter discs that can repeatedly stop such a powerful monster repeatedly without breaking a sweat.
Regarding your preferences, I share them. I'm fine with a five-speed but do think that all Cobras could be improved--at least in the fun department--by using a high-revving 289, or 302 for practical reasons but no larger, as well as skinnier tires.
Miguel
Peter Brock did indeed do much of the design work for the Superperformance original - I believe he made it 2% bigger in every direction to get a bit more space inside. Sounds like there was a little room for improvement though if they've made this new one taller still. Or maybe the target customer turned out to be a little larger than they'd planned? 
Or poorer, actually - the last original went at auction for $7.25 million remember...
What struck me sitting in one was the size of the transmission tunnel - the cockpit is basically divided into thirds, two of which are used by the seats, the remaining one taken up by the tunnel. It puts you a looooong way to one side of the car and I guess there's not much that even Brock could do about that.
If I designed it myself I of course would use much more contemporary knowledge and materials, so I don't have a problem with the chassis alterations and larger brakes. I just hope that they're not deemed necessary to keep up with the supercar Jones's - something like this should be designed to look the part and offer as much of the original look and driving experience as possible (except where can be universally improved on, like brakes), not compete with modern supercars. I've not read anything about that being the intention, but the figures and magazine reviews seem to suggest it's in a similar ballpark, when I feel that largely unecessary.
Looking forward to seeing an original again this year. Not seen one in the flesh for almost a decade, but planning on going to both classic LM and the Goodwood Revival this year. The way they squat and shuffle through the corners whilst making that filthy, reality-splitting noise is one of my favourite sights.
Or poorer, actually - the last original went at auction for $7.25 million remember...What struck me sitting in one was the size of the transmission tunnel - the cockpit is basically divided into thirds, two of which are used by the seats, the remaining one taken up by the tunnel. It puts you a looooong way to one side of the car and I guess there's not much that even Brock could do about that.
If I designed it myself I of course would use much more contemporary knowledge and materials, so I don't have a problem with the chassis alterations and larger brakes. I just hope that they're not deemed necessary to keep up with the supercar Jones's - something like this should be designed to look the part and offer as much of the original look and driving experience as possible (except where can be universally improved on, like brakes), not compete with modern supercars. I've not read anything about that being the intention, but the figures and magazine reviews seem to suggest it's in a similar ballpark, when I feel that largely unecessary.
Looking forward to seeing an original again this year. Not seen one in the flesh for almost a decade, but planning on going to both classic LM and the Goodwood Revival this year. The way they squat and shuffle through the corners whilst making that filthy, reality-splitting noise is one of my favourite sights.
Miguel said:
torchy6 said:
Yeah, brave taking it out in the snow, I bet it handled like dream: rolleyes: Shelby is a tart, will sign anything for a price! I have always loved this car, the rear view is the best and the further forward you get the uglier it becomes. What's with the 9000 monicker? Doesn't seem to refer to anything (unless they are planning a nine litre!) and what's the price? Still want one tho', with the right engine that is.
I love it, but there are also other companies producing replicas of the Daytona, such as Factory Five Racing. These others don't carry the Shelby name, which is how I would prefer it. Not only are some of them far more affordable, but I lost all respect for Shelby when he started suing Cobra replica companies. Shelby did amazing work with Ford in the 60's. Later, his Series 1 looked cool but had all sorts of problems. Hey, not everything one touches can turn to gold. I respected him for making an effort and trying his formula again in a then modern car.I remember him saying in an article on Cobra kits some thirty years ago in Road & Track magazine about how he didn't understand why people were so enamored with a car that was already old when he started with them but more power to them. Years later, he got started with his own Shelby Cobra kits with CSX numbers, and I thought that was a good idea. Why shouldn't he make money with the car that he came up with.
But when he decided to sue them, however, I thought he just looked like a pathetic old man. Years later, after settling the lawsuit with Factory Five, which stated that they could keep making the cars but could not use the names, Shelby, Cobra, etc., which they already were not using, he tried suing them again in late 2009. Pathetic.
Miguel
GM did the same thing with the Fibrefab Centruion replicas of the 'Stingray' racer back in the 1960's, and got the production shut down.
"Why the hell shouldn't he sue someone for doing something they weren't entitled to do?"
because, it was the builders/manufacturers of the thousands of cobra kits who kept the name/car alive. Shelby is only where he is today because the general public know what a Cobra is. NOT through the few that were produced in the sixties but due to the THOUSANDS of replicas all over the world.
In the 80s-90s he was very happy to tie up with RAM, lending his name to their cobra replica (because the manufacturers paid him) but several years later decides to sue a cobra replica manufacturer.
Surely if he thinks it's so wrong, then it's wrong. he can't be selective about these things? With Shelby it's ALL about the money!
Simon
because, it was the builders/manufacturers of the thousands of cobra kits who kept the name/car alive. Shelby is only where he is today because the general public know what a Cobra is. NOT through the few that were produced in the sixties but due to the THOUSANDS of replicas all over the world.
In the 80s-90s he was very happy to tie up with RAM, lending his name to their cobra replica (because the manufacturers paid him) but several years later decides to sue a cobra replica manufacturer.
Surely if he thinks it's so wrong, then it's wrong. he can't be selective about these things? With Shelby it's ALL about the money!
Simon
Once you alter it, it's worthless. I'm generally a Superperformance fan, but this is just an abomination. And Shelby represents the oldest form of business in history. It is actually a lovely looking design, but means nothing and many random designs (e.g. Ultima's), with no history are far superior. I wonder who will buy these things? Lets just build a stretch limo GT40 and go bar hopping.
torchy6 said:
Yeah, brave taking it out in the snow, I bet it handled like dream: rolleyes: Shelby is a tart, will sign anything for a price! I have always loved this car, the rear view is the best and the further forward you get the uglier it becomes. What's with the 9000 monicker? Doesn't seem to refer to anything (unless they are planning a nine litre!) and what's the price? Still want one tho', with the right engine that is.
simonjrwinter said:
because, it was the builders/manufacturers of the thousands of cobra kits who kept the name/car alive. Shelby is only where he is today because the general public know what a Cobra is. NOT through the few that were produced in the sixties but due to the THOUSANDS of replicas all over the world.
Bolloux....
And with only the few exceptions of well done copies, if anything, the large amount of bloody awful 'Cobra' copies have done more harm to the original than anything else.
simonjrwinter said:
With Shelby it's ALL about the money!
So what. Why shouldn't he make money out of it now, he didn't make much out of it in the 60's. Having met the man, yes, he's a bit brusk, and money is a prime concern, but so what. I dare say with his health issues over the years, and USA medical costs, I don't blame him.simonjrwinter said:
"Why the hell shouldn't he sue someone for doing something they weren't entitled to do?"
because, it was the builders/manufacturers of the thousands of cobra kits who kept the name/car alive. Shelby is only where he is today because the general public know what a Cobra is. NOT through the few that were produced in the sixties but due to the THOUSANDS of replicas all over the world.
In the 80s-90s he was very happy to tie up with RAM, lending his name to their cobra replica (because the manufacturers paid him) but several years later decides to sue a cobra replica manufacturer.
Surely if he thinks it's so wrong, then it's wrong. he can't be selective about these things? With Shelby it's ALL about the money!
Simon
In addition to Simon's reply, there have been at least 100 Cobra replica companies. If it were illegal, wouldn't they all have been shut down? Once a car is out of production for a number of years, a manufacturer can no longer protect it. I believe it's something like 17 years, but I'm not sure. It's definitely not more than that.because, it was the builders/manufacturers of the thousands of cobra kits who kept the name/car alive. Shelby is only where he is today because the general public know what a Cobra is. NOT through the few that were produced in the sixties but due to the THOUSANDS of replicas all over the world.
In the 80s-90s he was very happy to tie up with RAM, lending his name to their cobra replica (because the manufacturers paid him) but several years later decides to sue a cobra replica manufacturer.
Surely if he thinks it's so wrong, then it's wrong. he can't be selective about these things? With Shelby it's ALL about the money!
Simon
Shelby himself had said that he was fine with it and does not own the Cobra name. Factory Five Racing had stopped using the protected names long before there was even talk of any lawsuit if they ever even used them at all. If he is such a man of principle, then why doesn't he go after all of them. Why does he settle the case? He is totally in the wrong and is only after money. Going after smaller Cobra kit companies may shut them down but only due to legal costs that they cannot afford, but he wouldn't be able to collect any money from them. If he just wants to shut them down, then why doesn't he go after all of those?
He knows that FFR is the biggest Cobra kit company out there and just went after money. Porsche does not sue companies that make 356 replicas. Ferrari, who is very protective about its name did not sue Lee Noble when he made a P4 replica, etc.
I applaud all the work Shelby has done, successful or not, before and after the Cobra, including the Series 1, a failure, but I thought it was a cool car, the Viper, which I don't like--and yes I did drive one, his continuation 427 Cobras, where he lied to the government (I'm OK with that
) and said that he had these old 427 Cobra chassis in a barn somewhere and built then new Cobras without having to conform to safety and emission legislation for new cars since they were officially 1966 chassis. He sold them for $500,000 and donated $100,000 to the heart transplant fund, a great cause. Personally, I think this was brilliant!He made his own Cobra kit and got involved with Kirkham, who also make a 427 replica in order to have an aluminum body option for his kit. I believe he worked with Ford on the Ford GT, two later Cobra-esque prototypes, and several Shelby Mustangs that I believe have little more than his name. I'm OK with all of this, but as Simon wrote, had the Cobra kit business not existed, most of this would probably not have happened... and the lawsuits just make him look pathetic.
Miguel
Verde said:
Once you alter it, it's worthless. I'm generally a Superperformance fan, but this is just an abomination. And Shelby represents the oldest form of business in history. It is actually a lovely looking design, but means nothing and many random designs (e.g. Ultima's), with no history are far superior. I wonder who will buy these things? Lets just build a stretch limo GT40 and go bar hopping.
Interesting perspective - What do you find so offensive about it? It strikes me as much like those 'modernised' E-Types you can get - classic design with modern reliability and performance. A far cry from a 'stretch limo GT40'...torchy6 said:
Yeah, brave taking it out in the snow, I bet it handled like dream: rolleyes: Shelby is a tart, will sign anything for a price! I have always loved this car, the rear view is the best and the further forward you get the uglier it becomes. What's with the 9000 monicker? Doesn't seem to refer to anything (unless they are planning a nine litre!) and what's the price? Still want one tho', with the right engine that is.
M.
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