Is it ok to be rude to dealers?

[drivin_me_nuts]

okgo said:

drivin_me_nuts said:

okgo said:

paoloh said:

drivin_me_nuts said:

... which kind of begs the question....

if it's so bad, why does it seem to still attract a steady stream of applicants? and why do those who stay in it... stay in it?

(sorry, that was two questions)

1) You can earn some very good money with no qualifications.
2) Once you are in, it is difficult to leave.

1) That's sales in general, really.
2) Why?

I think it takes a certain type of person to be a salesman. Most people who run their own business have to have some of those salesman elements, but it strikes me that car sales seem to have one of the most prejudicial (as in strongly perceived) reputations.

What you mean over double glazing, estate agents, advertising, they are all pretty bad too

Agreed. Advertising is the one that gets me. I had a real gem of one recently who was using some really emotive language to persuade me to spend a significant amount of money a double page advertorial.

[AndrewW-G]

CharlesdeGaulle said:

paoloh said:

CharlesdeGaulle said:

but I want to deal with someone empowered to make the deal, not the intermediary.

You will very rarely find this in any main dealer.

All sales guys have to get deal/px value agreed by their Sales Manager unless of course yolu are paying full price with no part exchange.

I guess I can see that the boss would have to authorise the numbers, but it must be pretty soul-destroying for the salesman to bounce between customer and Manager in not much more than a messenger role.

'Paying full price...' Really? Does that actually happen? Even now?

Thats one of the elements of the Pendle sales technique that lots of people have kept, it's essentialy a good sales bod / bad sales bod routine, where essentialy you see the sales bod your dealing with as the good guy, going to persuade his nasty boss to give you a better deal / free floor mats etc, easy way to counter it, is to call the sales manager out to deal with you directly

[POORCARDEALER]

AndrewW-G said:

CharlesdeGaulle said:

paoloh said:

CharlesdeGaulle said:

but I want to deal with someone empowered to make the deal, not the intermediary.

You will very rarely find this in any main dealer.

All sales guys have to get deal/px value agreed by their Sales Manager unless of course yolu are paying full price with no part exchange.

I guess I can see that the boss would have to authorise the numbers, but it must be pretty soul-destroying for the salesman to bounce between customer and Manager in not much more than a messenger role.

'Paying full price...' Really? Does that actually happen? Even now?

Thats one of the elements of the Pendle sales technique that lots of people have kept, it's essentialy a good sales bod / bad sales bod routine, where essentialy you see the sales bod your dealing with as the good guy, going to persuade his nasty boss to give you a better deal / free floor mats etc, easy way to counter it, is to call the sales manager out to deal with you directly

My old sales manager what excellent at telling us what to say, but s hit himself when faced with a customer.......

[okgo]

drivin_me_nuts said:

okgo said:

drivin_me_nuts said:

okgo said:

paoloh said:

drivin_me_nuts said:

... which kind of begs the question....

if it's so bad, why does it seem to still attract a steady stream of applicants? and why do those who stay in it... stay in it?

(sorry, that was two questions)

1) You can earn some very good money with no qualifications.
2) Once you are in, it is difficult to leave.

1) That's sales in general, really.
2) Why?

I think it takes a certain type of person to be a salesman. Most people who run their own business have to have some of those salesman elements, but it strikes me that car sales seem to have one of the most prejudicial (as in strongly perceived) reputations.

What you mean over double glazing, estate agents, advertising, they are all pretty bad too

Agreed. Advertising is the one that gets me. I had a real gem of one recently who was using some really emotive language to persuade me to spend a significant amount of money a double page advertorial.

guess what I do now

[CharlesdeGaulle]

POORCARDEALER said:

easy way to counter it, is to call the sales manager out to deal with you directly

My old sales manager what excellent at telling us what to say, but s hit himself when faced with a customer.......

Interesting responses - thank you.

I hope I don't hijack this but I have a related question:

Many servicemen and diplomats serving overseas qualify for tax-free car purchases, and there are lots of firms (and some specialised arms of the manufacturer) who seem to target this market.

However, is there any advantage for the 'local' dealer in dealing with this type of sale? I ask because I was interested in an S-Max and had a test-drive at my local Ford main dealer. I was open about qualifying for a tax-free sale but he was clearly not interested in selling under those terms and said that his best price was list price minus the VAT (i.e. essentially paying full price).

The firms who target the military press and publications were much cheaper and that's ultimately where my money went, but I started off wanting to support the local dealer who clearly saw no advantgae in selling me a tax-free car. Just wondered why?

[throt]

Glosphil said:

Deva Link said:

Victor101 said:

Trust me, it's a lot of work and aggro to earn £65.

Well, plus the £14K. Don't forget the vast majority of people do their job without any commission or bonus.

Victor101 said:

Sell five cars a week (very good going indeed - not many would do this)

I'm surprised it's that low. Bought a new Honda Jazz for wifey the other day and the salesman mentioned in passing that we were his 4th order that day.

Victor101 said:

...and after tax you might earn 30 grand a year.

Not many people think in terms of take home pay. £30K *after* tax is a pretty chunky salary.

£65/car, 5 cars a week, 50 weeks a year is £30,900. Plus £14K basis is just under £31K/annum BEFORE tax.


Selling computer software to engineers earnt me over £43K/annum including commission and on-target bonuses. I also had to drive up to 30K miles per year as the I couldn't sit in a showroom and wait for the customers to come to me. I look on being able to go to the customers as an advantage.

That Math is wrong,,£65 per car= £325 a week x 50 weeks= £16,250 + £14,000= £30,250..Thats not good money and for weekend work too..

When I walk in to a dealership I never act like a child with a new toy, all excited, the sales person loves this and will work on list prices from the off..As for optional extra's, how boring is that, your better off going on the brand's site and then configuring what you want on it, then print it off and take it in and say beat that in all area's and phone me with the deal. All this sitting in the car and turning the knobs in bull**it..Get the deal then do the demo, thats how I work it anyway..

[bimsb6]

last weekend the mrs and her best friend went to buy a new car for the friend ,they were ignored then had a patronising sales patter from the salesman followed by a promise of a call on the monday to give a price as the sales manager was unavailable all weekend .the follow up call was never made and a purchase made elsewhere ,what the salesman didn't realise was my mrs is an exec for the manufacturer ! not a good move .

[Glosphil]

throt said:

Glosphil said:

Deva Link said:

Victor101 said:

Trust me, it's a lot of work and aggro to earn £65.

Well, plus the £14K. Don't forget the vast majority of people do their job without any commission or bonus.

Victor101 said:

Sell five cars a week (very good going indeed - not many would do this)

I'm surprised it's that low. Bought a new Honda Jazz for wifey the other day and the salesman mentioned in passing that we were his 4th order that day.

Victor101 said:

...and after tax you might earn 30 grand a year.

Not many people think in terms of take home pay. £30K *after* tax is a pretty chunky salary.

£65/car, 5 cars a week, 50 weeks a year is £30,900. Plus £14K basis is just under £31K/annum BEFORE tax.


Selling computer software to engineers earnt me over £43K/annum including commission and on-target bonuses. I also had to drive up to 30K miles per year as the I couldn't sit in a showroom and wait for the customers to come to me. I look on being able to go to the customers as an advantage.

That Math is wrong,,£65 per car= £325 a week x 50 weeks= £16,250 + £14,000= £30,250..Thats not good money and for weekend work too..

When I walk in to a dealership I never act like a child with a new toy, all excited, the sales person loves this and will work on list prices from the off..As for optional extra's, how boring is that, your better off going on the brand's site and then configuring what you want on it, then print it off and take it in and say beat that in all area's and phone me with the deal. All this sitting in the car and turning the knobs in bull**it..Get the deal then do the demo, thats how I work it anyway..

Realised after posting that my maths was wrong (should have used a calculator instead of relying on my brain!). Was corrected later.

[davidjpowell]

CharlesdeGaulle said:

POORCARDEALER said:

easy way to counter it, is to call the sales manager out to deal with you directly

My old sales manager what excellent at telling us what to say, but s hit himself when faced with a customer.......

Interesting responses - thank you.

I hope I don't hijack this but I have a related question:

Many servicemen and diplomats serving overseas qualify for tax-free car purchases, and there are lots of firms (and some specialised arms of the manufacturer) who seem to target this market.

However, is there any advantage for the 'local' dealer in dealing with this type of sale? I ask because I was interested in an S-Max and had a test-drive at my local Ford main dealer. I was open about qualifying for a tax-free sale but he was clearly not interested in selling under those terms and said that his best price was list price minus the VAT (i.e. essentially paying full price).

The firms who target the military press and publications were much cheaper and that's ultimately where my money went, but I started off wanting to support the local dealer who clearly saw no advantgae in selling me a tax-free car. Just wondered why?

I have done some work with a company in this field. It's specialist, and if the dealer gets it wrong they will end up forking out the tax. I'd guess the sale is not worth the risk in low numbers.

[POORCARDEALER]

CharlesdeGaulle said:

POORCARDEALER said:

easy way to counter it, is to call the sales manager out to deal with you directly

My old sales manager what excellent at telling us what to say, but s hit himself when faced with a customer.......

Interesting responses - thank you.

I hope I don't hijack this but I have a related question:

Many servicemen and diplomats serving overseas qualify for tax-free car purchases, and there are lots of firms (and some specialised arms of the manufacturer) who seem to target this market.

However, is there any advantage for the 'local' dealer in dealing with this type of sale? I ask because I was interested in an S-Max and had a test-drive at my local Ford main dealer. I was open about qualifying for a tax-free sale but he was clearly not interested in selling under those terms and said that his best price was list price minus the VAT (i.e. essentially paying full price).

The firms who target the military press and publications were much cheaper and that's ultimately where my money went, but I started off wanting to support the local dealer who clearly saw no advantgae in selling me a tax-free car. Just wondered why?

Most manufacturers have one dealership who deal with diplomatic sales and other dealers simply pass the enquiry to them.

[drivin_me_nuts]

okgo said:

drivin_me_nuts said:

okgo said:

drivin_me_nuts said:

okgo said:

paoloh said:

drivin_me_nuts said:

... which kind of begs the question....

if it's so bad, why does it seem to still attract a steady stream of applicants? and why do those who stay in it... stay in it?

(sorry, that was two questions)

1) You can earn some very good money with no qualifications.
2) Once you are in, it is difficult to leave.

1) That's sales in general, really.
2) Why?

I think it takes a certain type of person to be a salesman. Most people who run their own business have to have some of those salesman elements, but it strikes me that car sales seem to have one of the most prejudicial (as in strongly perceived) reputations.

What you mean over double glazing, estate agents, advertising, they are all pretty bad too

Agreed. Advertising is the one that gets me. I had a real gem of one recently who was using some really emotive language to persuade me to spend a significant amount of money a double page advertorial.

guess what I do now

Persistent was not the word. Even when I spelled it out absolutely that it was not the right thing for my business, there was that insistence that 'nope, it's definately the right thing to do.

Ah well, live and learn.


Is it harder selling ad space (assuming that is what you do) than selling cars?

[okgo]

drivin_me_nuts said:

okgo said:

drivin_me_nuts said:

okgo said:

drivin_me_nuts said:

okgo said:

paoloh said:

drivin_me_nuts said:

... which kind of begs the question....

if it's so bad, why does it seem to still attract a steady stream of applicants? and why do those who stay in it... stay in it?

(sorry, that was two questions)

1) You can earn some very good money with no qualifications.
2) Once you are in, it is difficult to leave.

1) That's sales in general, really.
2) Why?

I think it takes a certain type of person to be a salesman. Most people who run their own business have to have some of those salesman elements, but it strikes me that car sales seem to have one of the most prejudicial (as in strongly perceived) reputations.

What you mean over double glazing, estate agents, advertising, they are all pretty bad too

Agreed. Advertising is the one that gets me. I had a real gem of one recently who was using some really emotive language to persuade me to spend a significant amount of money a double page advertorial.

guess what I do now

Persistent was not the word. Even when I spelled it out absolutely that it was not the right thing for my business, there was that insistence that 'nope, it's definately the right thing to do.

Ah well, live and learn.


Is it harder selling ad space (assuming that is what you do) than selling cars?

Yes I think it is. At least with a car you are selling a physcal product and they make their own mind up on the majority of things, with advertising its all speculation, who knows if it will work..

I am lucky that I work for a fery large title that is market leader, so its not quite the battle I am sure some places have.

[nsmith1180]

throt said:

When I walk in to a dealership I never act like a child with a new toy, all excited, the sales person loves this and will work on list prices from the off..As for optional extra's, how boring is that, your better off going on the brand's site and then configuring what you want on it, then print it off and take it in and say beat that in all area's and phone me with the deal. All this sitting in the car and turning the knobs in bull**it..Get the deal then do the demo, thats how I work it anyway..

I am sure you always get the best possible buying experience then. Treat me like that and Ill decide its not worth the hassle. I spend too much time in the dealership to be spoken to like a servant, if I have what you want, and you aint willing to go through the process then sod you.

The way that you work it would get you a swift fk OFF from most of the sales managers I have worked for. I would try until you told me to "Beat that in all areas." I dont deal with wkers, I sell cars to customers.

[paoloh]

CharlesdeGaulle said:

paoloh said:

CharlesdeGaulle said:

but I want to deal with someone empowered to make the deal, not the intermediary.

You will very rarely find this in any main dealer.

All sales guys have to get deal/px value agreed by their Sales Manager unless of course yolu are paying full price with no part exchange.

I guess I can see that the boss would have to authorise the numbers, but it must be pretty soul-destroying for the salesman to bounce between customer and Manager in not much more than a messenger role.

'Paying full price...' Really? Does that actually happen? Even now?

I have seen this recently:

Day 1, The SM allows one sales guy to give £500 off a new car.
The very next day, a sales guy gives a customer a free set of mats on a full price car ( same car ) with PCP kick back and gets bked stupid for doing it.

[Jasandjules]

paoloh said:

I have seen this recently:

Well, there is a reason why people think managers are f****ng stupid.

We've all met one for starters, and stories like your for seconds....

[paintman]

Probably yes.

But don't EVER be tempted to be 'clever' or show off to your partner at the expense of a waiter in a restaurant!

Spit in your soup? Certainly sir.

[crofty1984]

Blown2CV said:

MattVXR87 said:

One of my rules in life is to treat others how you want to be treated

well, would you want people to treat you in a rude way?

I can think of a couple of girls I'd want to treat me in a rude way.

[Victor101]

nsmith1180 said:

throt said:

When I walk in to a dealership I never act like a child with a new toy, all excited, the sales person loves this and will work on list prices from the off..As for optional extra's, how boring is that, your better off going on the brand's site and then configuring what you want on it, then print it off and take it in and say beat that in all area's and phone me with the deal. All this sitting in the car and turning the knobs in bull**it..Get the deal then do the demo, thats how I work it anyway..

I am sure you always get the best possible buying experience then. Treat me like that and Ill decide its not worth the hassle. I spend too much time in the dealership to be spoken to like a servant, if I have what you want, and you aint willing to go through the process then sod you.

The way that you work it would get you a swift fk OFF from most of the sales managers I have worked for. I would try until you told me to "Beat that in all areas." I dont deal with wkers, I sell cars to customers.

Exactomundo. Given that the commission on a used car is around 60-150, I will just f*ck off any smartarse idiot that tries to get cute with me. My attitude is this: I'm polite, patient and knowledgeable. I sell nice cars and I will not pull your trousers down. Yes, I will haggle a little, but I'm not giving cars away.
But if a customer acts like a tw*t then I will not give a bean of discount, will give a ridiculous p/x figure and do all I can to get rid of you - all with a smile of course. Why? Because if you don't buy it, I'll simply sell it to someone else. See if I care!

Other hazards......

Dolts who come in for brochures and test drives on new cars, then tell you "Oh my company is getting me one". Sorry chum, if your company is buying you a new A4 and it's not from us, Sod off. Ask the leasing company to arrange a test drive. Why should I waste my time on you?

The 'what's my car worth' crew. Idiots come in and just want their car valued. I can spot them a mile off - bottom book minus 15% Sir.

Sunday cruisers. Just had a spot of lunch, a big crap and a film that finishes at 3pm. What now? I know! Let's go and look at some cars. You're just about ready to lock up at 4.30 and in they come.

But for all that you get some customers who are a joy to deal with, ones you can't do enough for. These people know what they want, approximately how much they want to pay. They realise you need to make a profit and they know that a 5 year old car is not going to be like new. Sadly, these folk are thin on the ground. Sadly, we have idiots like Hooty (see page 2) to contend with!

[Hooty]

Victor101 said:

nsmith1180 said:

throt said:

When I walk in to a dealership I never act like a child with a new toy, all excited, the sales person loves this and will work on list prices from the off..As for optional extra's, how boring is that, your better off going on the brand's site and then configuring what you want on it, then print it off and take it in and say beat that in all area's and phone me with the deal. All this sitting in the car and turning the knobs in bull**it..Get the deal then do the demo, thats how I work it anyway..

I am sure you always get the best possible buying experience then. Treat me like that and Ill decide its not worth the hassle. I spend too much time in the dealership to be spoken to like a servant, if I have what you want, and you aint willing to go through the process then sod you.

The way that you work it would get you a swift fk OFF from most of the sales managers I have worked for. I would try until you told me to "Beat that in all areas." I dont deal with wkers, I sell cars to customers.

Exactomundo. Given that the commission on a used car is around 60-150, I will just f*ck off any smartarse idiot that tries to get cute with me. My attitude is this: I'm polite, patient and knowledgeable. I sell nice cars and I will not pull your trousers down. Yes, I will haggle a little, but I'm not giving cars away.
But if a customer acts like a tw*t then I will not give a bean of discount, will give a ridiculous p/x figure and do all I can to get rid of you - all with a smile of course. Why? Because if you don't buy it, I'll simply sell it to someone else. See if I care!

Other hazards......

Dolts who come in for brochures and test drives on new cars, then tell you "Oh my company is getting me one". Sorry chum, if your company is buying you a new A4 and it's not from us, Sod off. Ask the leasing company to arrange a test drive. Why should I waste my time on you?

The 'what's my car worth' crew. Idiots come in and just want their car valued. I can spot them a mile off - bottom book minus 15% Sir.

Sunday cruisers. Just had a spot of lunch, a big crap and a film that finishes at 3pm. What now? I know! Let's go and look at some cars. You're just about ready to lock up at 4.30 and in they come.

But for all that you get some customers who are a joy to deal with, ones you can't do enough for. These people know what they want, approximately how much they want to pay. They realise you need to make a profit and they know that a 5 year old car is not going to be like new. Sadly, these folk are thin on the ground. Sadly, we have idiots like Hooty (see page 2) to contend with!

My heart bleeds for you, Vic. You really must have to sell a whole load of cars to get any kind of decent wage yet you still think it's OK to be rude and have an attitude. I would venture to suggest that you are also a very bad judge of character too. Not everyone comes in, having made a prior appointment, with written permission from the DP to buy a car from you. Sometimes, you'd be surprised who you can persuade to buy if you'd spend a little time with them.

BTW - who do you work for? Just so I know never to go anywhere near your dealership.

[CarlT]

Victor101 said:

Exactomundo. Given that the commission on a used car is around 60-150, I will just f*ck off any smartarse idiot that tries to get cute with me. My attitude is this: I'm polite, patient and knowledgeable. I sell nice cars and I will not pull your trousers down. Yes, I will haggle a little, but I'm not giving cars away.
But if a customer acts like a tw*t then I will not give a bean of discount, will give a ridiculous p/x figure and do all I can to get rid of you - all with a smile of course. Why? Because if you don't buy it, I'll simply sell it to someone else. See if I care!

Other hazards......

Dolts who come in for brochures and test drives on new cars, then tell you "Oh my company is getting me one". Sorry chum, if your company is buying you a new A4 and it's not from us, Sod off. Ask the leasing company to arrange a test drive. Why should I waste my time on you?

The 'what's my car worth' crew. Idiots come in and just want their car valued. I can spot them a mile off - bottom book minus 15% Sir.

Sunday cruisers. Just had a spot of lunch, a big crap and a film that finishes at 3pm. What now? I know! Let's go and look at some cars. You're just about ready to lock up at 4.30 and in they come.

But for all that you get some customers who are a joy to deal with, ones you can't do enough for. These people know what they want, approximately how much they want to pay. They realise you need to make a profit and they know that a 5 year old car is not going to be like new. Sadly, these folk are thin on the ground. Sadly, we have idiots like Hooty (see page 2) to contend with!