Is it ok to be rude to dealers?
Discussion
Victor101 said:
Exactomundo. Given that the commission on a used car is around 60-150, I will just f*ck off any smartarse idiot that tries to get cute with me. My attitude is this: I'm polite, patient and knowledgeable. I sell nice cars and I will not pull your trousers down. Yes, I will haggle a little, but I'm not giving cars away.
But if a customer acts like a tw*t then I will not give a bean of discount, will give a ridiculous p/x figure and do all I can to get rid of you - all with a smile of course. Why? Because if you don't buy it, I'll simply sell it to someone else. See if I care!
Other hazards......
Dolts who come in for brochures and test drives on new cars, then tell you "Oh my company is getting me one". Sorry chum, if your company is buying you a new A4 and it's not from us, Sod off. Ask the leasing company to arrange a test drive. Why should I waste my time on you?
The 'what's my car worth' crew. Idiots come in and just want their car valued. I can spot them a mile off - bottom book minus 15% Sir.
Sunday cruisers. Just had a spot of lunch, a big crap and a film that finishes at 3pm. What now? I know! Let's go and look at some cars. You're just about ready to lock up at 4.30 and in they come.
But for all that you get some customers who are a joy to deal with, ones you can't do enough for. These people know what they want, approximately how much they want to pay. They realise you need to make a profit and they know that a 5 year old car is not going to be like new. Sadly, these folk are thin on the ground. Sadly, we have idiots like Hooty (see page 2) to contend with!
Or the money of my family and friends.
Or the money of any contracts I let.
On the basis of this post, you're the kind of bloke that gives your business a bad name.
Edited by CharlesdeGaulle on Monday 22 February 17:29
I can see things from both angles really.
On the one hand, as a customer I would want the salesman to do all that they can to get me the best deal possible. They should treat me the same as any other customer, i.e. my money is as good as that of the next person, so my deal should be just as good. Added to which I have no intention of spending £5k, £20k or even £100k without being absolutely sure that everything is as it could be - this takes time, research and questions.
On the other hand, I don't expect a sales person to lick my arse given that, for the most part, they have no assurances whatsoever that I'm going to spend a bean. I imagine the vast majority of 'sales enquiries' actually prove to be, on a personal level for the sales person, a waste of time...if they're not going to get the sale then it was time that might have been better spent elsewhere. And any of this "well it might have led to a sale on another day" BS is just that; give me a cast-iron promise that MY time will result in money in MY pocket and I'll happily spend all the time you need...THAT would be my view, were I to work as a car salesman.
At the end of the day no-one should waste the other persons time and, providing they don't, it's fair game really.
ETA: I have been positively insulted by car dealers before; an episode in the Wheatley Hall Road Honda dealership in Doncaster springs to mind ("bring your parents in to prove you can afford this Civic Type-R and THEN we'll let you test-drive it", despite me turning up in a more valuable car, asking the right questions and not being a prat). I've also had fantastic experiences, such as the guys at Dorchester Mercedes Benz who offered two hours of advice and help despite being told I was just researching for a friend.
On the one hand, as a customer I would want the salesman to do all that they can to get me the best deal possible. They should treat me the same as any other customer, i.e. my money is as good as that of the next person, so my deal should be just as good. Added to which I have no intention of spending £5k, £20k or even £100k without being absolutely sure that everything is as it could be - this takes time, research and questions.
On the other hand, I don't expect a sales person to lick my arse given that, for the most part, they have no assurances whatsoever that I'm going to spend a bean. I imagine the vast majority of 'sales enquiries' actually prove to be, on a personal level for the sales person, a waste of time...if they're not going to get the sale then it was time that might have been better spent elsewhere. And any of this "well it might have led to a sale on another day" BS is just that; give me a cast-iron promise that MY time will result in money in MY pocket and I'll happily spend all the time you need...THAT would be my view, were I to work as a car salesman.
At the end of the day no-one should waste the other persons time and, providing they don't, it's fair game really.
ETA: I have been positively insulted by car dealers before; an episode in the Wheatley Hall Road Honda dealership in Doncaster springs to mind ("bring your parents in to prove you can afford this Civic Type-R and THEN we'll let you test-drive it", despite me turning up in a more valuable car, asking the right questions and not being a prat). I've also had fantastic experiences, such as the guys at Dorchester Mercedes Benz who offered two hours of advice and help despite being told I was just researching for a friend.
Edited by ehyouwhat on Sunday 21st February 21:10
The company car buyer (via leasing company that we cant supply) will happily take up hours of your time on saturdays and sundays test driving various models on their "list" knowing you cant supply them.
The manufacturer or the supplying dealer (180 miles away) should be doing this, however because they have given away nearly every penny of margin in the car to get the "contract" they just want the order without the foreplay.....bad situation for all concerned.
ehyouwhat said:
I can see things from both angles really.
On the one hand, as a customer I would want the salesman to do all that they can to get me the best deal possible. They should treat me the same as any other customer, i.e. my money is a good as that of the next person, so my deal should be just as good. Added to which I have no intention of spending £5k, £20k or even £100k without being absolutely sure that everything is as it could be - this takes time, research and questions.
On the other hand, I don't expect a sales person to lick my arse given that, for the most part, they have no assurances whatsoever that I'm going to spend a bean. I imagine the vast majority of 'sales enquiries' actually prove to be, on a personal level for the sales person, a waste of time...if they're not going to get the sale then it was time that might have been better spent elsewhere. And any of this "well it might have led to a sale on another day" BS is just that; give me a cast-iron promise that MY time will result in money in MY pocket and I'll happily spend all the time you need...THAT would be my view, were I to work as a car salesman.
At the end of the day no-one should waste the other persons time and, providing they don't, it's fair game really.
The point is though that people frequently take their time in deciding what they want and when they want to buy it. Reading Victor's post, it would appear that he's expecting every punter to come in and immediately start negotiating for a deal there and then. Cars are horrendously expensive and given the salesman offers pratcically nothing by way of expertise or value in the sale then he / she should not expect much. The concept of closing a sale is a total nonsense. All customers should be treated with respect as they might not come back when they are ready to buy.On the one hand, as a customer I would want the salesman to do all that they can to get me the best deal possible. They should treat me the same as any other customer, i.e. my money is a good as that of the next person, so my deal should be just as good. Added to which I have no intention of spending £5k, £20k or even £100k without being absolutely sure that everything is as it could be - this takes time, research and questions.
On the other hand, I don't expect a sales person to lick my arse given that, for the most part, they have no assurances whatsoever that I'm going to spend a bean. I imagine the vast majority of 'sales enquiries' actually prove to be, on a personal level for the sales person, a waste of time...if they're not going to get the sale then it was time that might have been better spent elsewhere. And any of this "well it might have led to a sale on another day" BS is just that; give me a cast-iron promise that MY time will result in money in MY pocket and I'll happily spend all the time you need...THAT would be my view, were I to work as a car salesman.
At the end of the day no-one should waste the other persons time and, providing they don't, it's fair game really.
POORCARDEALER said:
The company car buyer (via leasing company that we cant supply) will happily take up hours of your time on saturdays and sundays test driving various models on their "list" knowing you cant supply them.
The manufacturer or the supplying dealer (180 miles away) should be doing this, however because they have given away nearly every penny of margin in the car to get the "contract" they just want the order without the foreplay.....bad situation for all concerned.
The manufacturer or the supplying dealer (180 miles away) should be doing this, however because they have given away nearly every penny of margin in the car to get the "contract" they just want the order without the foreplay.....bad situation for all concerned.
However the sales person should be asking if it's for private or business use.
I learned quickly to get that question in, mind you once you've been doing the job a while you can spot them a mile off.
Hooty said:
Victor101 said:
nsmith1180 said:
throt said:
When I walk in to a dealership I never act like a child with a new toy, all excited, the sales person loves this and will work on list prices from the off..As for optional extra's, how boring is that, your better off going on the brand's site and then configuring what you want on it, then print it off and take it in and say beat that in all area's and phone me with the deal. All this sitting in the car and turning the knobs in bull**it..Get the deal then do the demo, thats how I work it anyway..
I am sure you always get the best possible buying experience then. Treat me like that and Ill decide its not worth the hassle. I spend too much time in the dealership to be spoken to like a servant, if I have what you want, and you aint willing to go through the process then sod you.The way that you work it would get you a swift f
k OFF from most of the sales managers I have worked for. I would try until you told me to "Beat that in all areas." I dont deal with wkers, I sell cars to customers.But if a customer acts like a tw*t then I will not give a bean of discount, will give a ridiculous p/x figure and do all I can to get rid of you - all with a smile of course. Why? Because if you don't buy it, I'll simply sell it to someone else. See if I care!
Other hazards......
Dolts who come in for brochures and test drives on new cars, then tell you "Oh my company is getting me one". Sorry chum, if your company is buying you a new A4 and it's not from us, Sod off. Ask the leasing company to arrange a test drive. Why should I waste my time on you?
The 'what's my car worth' crew. Idiots come in and just want their car valued. I can spot them a mile off - bottom book minus 15% Sir.
Sunday cruisers. Just had a spot of lunch, a big crap and a film that finishes at 3pm. What now? I know! Let's go and look at some cars. You're just about ready to lock up at 4.30 and in they come.
But for all that you get some customers who are a joy to deal with, ones you can't do enough for. These people know what they want, approximately how much they want to pay. They realise you need to make a profit and they know that a 5 year old car is not going to be like new. Sadly, these folk are thin on the ground. Sadly, we have idiots like Hooty (see page 2) to contend with!
BTW - who do you work for? Just so I know never to go anywhere near your dealership.
Also, why get so defensive, how do you know that I am not going to be realistic after you have given your figure's to me..I have obviously hit some truth after reading the two post from the two of you..I also hate the opportunistic tactic that I have seen some salesman use, such as on very young ladies, exploitation is the word that comes to mind but yes, thats the game, correct?..
Anyway, I agree with all the sellers above that it really is a horrible business..Sad but true...
LHD said:
POORCARDEALER said:
The company car buyer (via leasing company that we cant supply) will happily take up hours of your time on saturdays and sundays test driving various models on their "list" knowing you cant supply them.
The manufacturer or the supplying dealer (180 miles away) should be doing this, however because they have given away nearly every penny of margin in the car to get the "contract" they just want the order without the foreplay.....bad situation for all concerned.
The manufacturer or the supplying dealer (180 miles away) should be doing this, however because they have given away nearly every penny of margin in the car to get the "contract" they just want the order without the foreplay.....bad situation for all concerned.
However the sales person should be asking if it's for private or business use.
I learned quickly to get that question in, mind you once you've been doing the job a while you can spot them a mile off.
Good thread.
In an ideal world I'd goto a garage with a car I'm interested and :
1. Tell them what I'd like to pay for the car.
2. Tell them what I think my car is worth if PXing.
3. Ask how much profit they have to make on the car. I appriciate everyone has to make a profit.
I normally find being honest enables you to find some middle ground.
In an ideal world I'd goto a garage with a car I'm interested and :
1. Tell them what I'd like to pay for the car.
2. Tell them what I think my car is worth if PXing.
3. Ask how much profit they have to make on the car. I appriciate everyone has to make a profit.
I normally find being honest enables you to find some middle ground.
AshBaldry said:
Trouble with this is.......is that everyone,Joe Public thinks they know what there cars worth,and thinks they know the trade inside out.Everyones a trader out there so it seems.....ever since the Internet started playing a vital role in the automotive sales world people can just log on and get information they couldn't before! "my cars worth such and such becuase on. eBay/autotrader" margins people margins!!
The public use glass's/parkers/ebay/autotrader because they have no other way of valuing their car, what do you expect them to do, take the dealers word for it when he says 'sorry mate, CAP says its the wrong colour/spec/age/trim, it's worth half what you think'?MonkeyBusiness said:
Good thread.
In an ideal world I'd goto a garage with a car I'm interested and :
1. Tell them what I'd like to pay for the car.
2. Tell them what I think my car is worth if PXing.
3. Ask how much profit they have to make on the car. I appriciate everyone has to make a profit.
I normally find being honest enables you to find some middle ground.
If everyone was like that then the job would be a pleasure.In an ideal world I'd goto a garage with a car I'm interested and :
1. Tell them what I'd like to pay for the car.
2. Tell them what I think my car is worth if PXing.
3. Ask how much profit they have to make on the car. I appriciate everyone has to make a profit.
I normally find being honest enables you to find some middle ground.
Honesty is key, on both sides of the desk.
LHD said:
MonkeyBusiness said:
Good thread.
In an ideal world I'd goto a garage with a car I'm interested and :
1. Tell them what I'd like to pay for the car.
2. Tell them what I think my car is worth if PXing.
3. Ask how much profit they have to make on the car. I appriciate everyone has to make a profit.
I normally find being honest enables you to find some middle ground.
If everyone was like that then the job would be a pleasure.In an ideal world I'd goto a garage with a car I'm interested and :
1. Tell them what I'd like to pay for the car.
2. Tell them what I think my car is worth if PXing.
3. Ask how much profit they have to make on the car. I appriciate everyone has to make a profit.
I normally find being honest enables you to find some middle ground.
Honesty is key, on both sides of the desk.
okgo said:
LHD said:
MonkeyBusiness said:
Good thread.
In an ideal world I'd goto a garage with a car I'm interested and :
1. Tell them what I'd like to pay for the car.
2. Tell them what I think my car is worth if PXing.
3. Ask how much profit they have to make on the car. I appriciate everyone has to make a profit.
I normally find being honest enables you to find some middle ground.
If everyone was like that then the job would be a pleasure.In an ideal world I'd goto a garage with a car I'm interested and :
1. Tell them what I'd like to pay for the car.
2. Tell them what I think my car is worth if PXing.
3. Ask how much profit they have to make on the car. I appriciate everyone has to make a profit.
I normally find being honest enables you to find some middle ground.
Honesty is key, on both sides of the desk.
I hate pricing cars sometimes.
i had the attitude like Victor101 from an estate agent,when buying my current house ,turned up to the estate agents on my bike of the time (harley) looking at properties around £130,000 (this was 20 years ago) he gave us a load of brochures and as we left chucked our contact info in the bin ,we knew this as our neighbour at the time was working there with the salestt .we went on to buy a property 1.5 miles from his office that he had on his books but from a rival 7 miles away due to his attitude .we were obviously time wasters as we turned up on a bike !
t .we went on to buy a property 1.5 miles from his office that he had on his books but from a rival 7 miles away due to his attitude .we were obviously time wasters as we turned up on a bike ! LHD said:
POORCARDEALER said:
The company car buyer (via leasing company that we cant supply) will happily take up hours of your time on saturdays and sundays test driving various models on their "list" knowing you cant supply them.
The manufacturer or the supplying dealer (180 miles away) should be doing this, however because they have given away nearly every penny of margin in the car to get the "contract" they just want the order without the foreplay.....bad situation for all concerned.
The manufacturer or the supplying dealer (180 miles away) should be doing this, however because they have given away nearly every penny of margin in the car to get the "contract" they just want the order without the foreplay.....bad situation for all concerned.
However the sales person should be asking if it's for private or business use.
I learned quickly to get that question in, mind you once you've been doing the job a while you can spot them a mile off.
We also got our first Honda Jazz after I looked at Accord, although I didn't take the Accord as a company car.
When Audi's got put on our list, Audi told us that any Business Centre dealer would welcome us with open arms. I've never recovered from being told to sod off by such a dealer when all I wanted to do was see how tight the backseat in the A4 was!
Deva Link said:
LHD said:
POORCARDEALER said:
The company car buyer (via leasing company that we cant supply) will happily take up hours of your time on saturdays and sundays test driving various models on their "list" knowing you cant supply them.
The manufacturer or the supplying dealer (180 miles away) should be doing this, however because they have given away nearly every penny of margin in the car to get the "contract" they just want the order without the foreplay.....bad situation for all concerned.
The manufacturer or the supplying dealer (180 miles away) should be doing this, however because they have given away nearly every penny of margin in the car to get the "contract" they just want the order without the foreplay.....bad situation for all concerned.
However the sales person should be asking if it's for private or business use.
I learned quickly to get that question in, mind you once you've been doing the job a while you can spot them a mile off.
We also got our first Honda Jazz after I looked at Accord, although I didn't take the Accord as a company car.
When Audi's got put on our list, Audi told us that any Business Centre dealer would welcome us with open arms. I've never recovered from being told to sod off by such a dealer when all I wanted to do was see how tight the backseat in the A4 was!
They have to understand that we won't be supplying it though and as such may put a retail customer ahead of them.
Many times i've had a company car user in and if it's quiet then i'll spend some time with them as they may well have a second or even a third car that they may change in the future.
bimsb6 said:
i had the attitude like Victor101 from an estate agent,when buying my current house ,turned up to the estate agents on my bike of the time (harley) looking at properties around £130,000 (this was 20 years ago) he gave us a load of brochures and as we left chucked our contact info in the bin ,we knew this as our neighbour at the time was working there with the salestt .we went on to buy a property 1.5 miles from his office that he had on his books but from a rival 7 miles away due to his attitude .we were obviously time wasters as we turned up on a bike !
I had a degree of attitude yesterday for even daring to look in the window of a jewellers selling decent & nice watches - apparently spending a little time looking to see if they have anything offering value or used (as opposed to walking into the shop and demanding to pay list & nothing less) merits security guard coming out the door, keeping an eye on you and then slinking back inside when you wander away. Seems the way of the world these days when looking at anything of high value and dressed a little scruffily as opposed to being super smart casual or suited & booted and clean shaven (or maybe it's just me t .we went on to buy a property 1.5 miles from his office that he had on his books but from a rival 7 miles away due to his attitude .we were obviously time wasters as we turned up on a bike ! 
). I can almost handle inside the shop but getting attitude outside FFS! So, that's one place I certainly won't be buying from then!At the end of the day, like most things in life, it's a little from column A and a little from column B.
When it comes to car buying, I don't do the whole call in advance, spill my guts about how much I have to spend, agree without question how little my trade in is worth (just as you tell me) and how I fully agree that list price + 2k is a wholly fair price to pay.
I may come and give the car a quick once over in advance but when I,m coming in to buy, I like to wander in, have a bit of a look at the prospective wallet drain, expect salesperson to a little bit of personal acknowledgement, let me have a 10 min test drive (without agreeing to buy beforehand etc) and then spend 5 mins negotiating a sensible deal (I'm reasonably aware, you make profit and I'm happy with that but I don't have a bottomless pit of money, you often don't do that much for it & I have an idea of what your car is worth and how much profit you might have in it). I'd say that I'm an easy customer to deal with.
However, in far to many cases, apparently not and I've been in enough DWA to make me feel just a little jaded with the whole experience and probably more inclined to give a little back & shaft them any way I can (within reason).
Victor101 said:
Dolts who come in for brochures and test drives on new cars, then tell you "Oh my company is getting me one". Sorry chum, if your company is buying you a new A4 and it's not from us, Sod off. Ask the leasing company to arrange a test drive. Why should I waste my time on you?
Happy to help em, theres a brochure sir, If you contact the business department at the manufacturer they can arrange an extended test drive for you. That way you can try the car out as part of your daily routine. If you have any questions, send me an email or call me on this number ** Hands over card ** but please dont visit during the day at weekends as we tend to be busy. Call during the week.Customer is getting info, a longer drive than they would out of me and Im happy to offer advice. But I am explaining that due to the fact they are not going to buy a car from my dealership, I will offer these services at low times not when there are 3 customers waiting sort of thing. The only people who get pissed off are the t
ts that are looking top end C5 or entry level E Class. They expect me to drop everything because their company is getting the car below cost!Victor101 said:
The 'what's my car worth' crew. Idiots come in and just want their car valued. I can spot them a mile off - bottom book minus 15% Sir.
I dont value cars sir, I buy and sell them, WBAC is your friend.Victor101 said:
Sunday cruisers. Just had a spot of lunch, a big crap and a film that finishes at 3pm. What now? I know! Let's go and look at some cars. You're just about ready to lock up at 4.30 and in they come.
We have a great way of dealing with these people. They come at 1630, half hour after we close!Victor101 said:
But for all that you get some customers who are a joy to deal with, ones you can't do enough for. These people know what they want, approximately how much they want to pay. They realise you need to make a profit and they know that a 5 year old car is not going to be like new. Sadly, these folk are thin on the ground.
+1I had a customer in yesterday that had me rolling around the used car pitch lowering underslung spare wheels for em. On the third request I said that Im sure you know how to do it now, Im in a suit. They left. Tyre Kickers in the extreme.
I also had a gent picking up his car who was a joy. Genuine pleasure to see me, dispite the fact he would be leaving my desk £20k lighter. We had a chat, we had a coffee and we did the paperwork. We then spent more time chatting and away he went.
nsmith1180 said:
... If you contact the business department at the manufacturer they can arrange an extended test drive for you. That way you can try the car out as part of your daily routine.
Manufacturers, leasing companies and fleet managers are generally not good at making company car drivers aware that this facility exists. I got in touch with Mercedes Corporate and they asked what spec car I was looking for. They said they didn't have one like that but would put one on the road and let me know. Two weeks later that called and then drove a brand-new car 200 miles to my house and left it with me for a few days. Amazing.
Its not OK to be rude. However, it is helpful to know what you want before you get to the dealer, therefore avoiding the upsell. I have had generally very positive experience with dealers. I always call in advance, and see if they have the 2010 Blodgeworth GT in stock, with the (stick shift,premium sound system), without the expensive ( moonroof,full leather,) or whatever. so I avoid looking at the six Blodgeworth GTs in stock. More often than not I order in advance, and simply list the items on the spec. If you appear to be basically competent and decisive, it makes it a lot easier to deal with the sale on a businesslike basis. Most dealers I have dealt with in my life have been just fine, and I immediately terminated the conversation with the very few who weren't. It takes two to allow the situation to get out of hand.
Deva Link said:
nsmith1180 said:
... If you contact the business department at the manufacturer they can arrange an extended test drive for you. That way you can try the car out as part of your daily routine.
Manufacturers, leasing companies and fleet managers are generally not good at making company car drivers aware that this facility exists. I got in touch with Mercedes Corporate and they asked what spec car I was looking for. They said they didn't have one like that but would put one on the road and let me know. Two weeks later that called and then drove a brand-new car 200 miles to my house and left it with me for a few days. Amazing.
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