RE: Driven: New Lotus Elise 1.6

[Ninjaboy]

michaeldale00 said:

I've currently got 53 reg 111s which was the last of the 1.8 rover engined elises with the vvc engine. Even back the it had co2 of 163g/kg and combined figure of about 41mpg so this new car doesn't seem to have moved the goal posts so far forward! Granted the rover units have their issues but I'm not sure how great a step forward this is. For me they could have stuck in one of the raft of 1.4 turbo units in the back and
offer something completely diffent and pehaps more suited to the elise

I was thinking that too, the toyota engines don't seem anymore powerful,seem less torquey and are heavier.

[AlexS]

Twincam16 said:

RobM77 said:

ortontom said:

MPG is a good focus on a car that should be focusing on excellence in handling and performance....

I don't think we should confuse marketing focus with engineering focus.

I see where you're coming from, but good MPG in a sports car is usually a biproduct of racer-style efficiency.

Jim Clark used to qualify his Lotuses on pole using less fuel and putting less wear on the tyres than his rivals. Diesels win at Le Mans because they don't have to stop for fuel.

Good MPG in a sports car is usually the sign of motorsport thinking.

Diesels win at Le Mans because the rules favour them. The most efficient cars over the last couple of years have been the Porsche RS Spyders.

[saaby93]

Twincam16 said:

Also, I was given a lift in a Pious the other day. Did a frankly planet-saving 37mpg average in a car that weighed the same as a shipping container specially strengthened to carry an elephant.

It weighs the same as just about any other 1200kg car. What were you doing to get 37mpg or was that an instantaneous reading?

[Thepetrolhead]

I'll stick to my S1 that I have had for nearly six years. I quite like the facelift [...] not sure if it improves on the S2 - it looks like Lotus are going back to the softer lines of the S1.

[dinkel]

BoRED S2upid said:

Still dubious if anyone will ever . . . achieve that magical MPG.

I think that is no problem with a weight like the Elises, in combination with a modern 1.6.

On trackdays however . . .

[RobM77]

dinkel said:

BoRED S2upid said:

Still dubious if anyone will ever . . . achieve that magical MPG.

I think that is no problem with a weight like the Elises, in combination with a modern 1.6.

On trackdays however . . .

A disparity between claimed and actual mpg is common in heavier cars, but in something like an Elise I wouldn't be surprised at all. My S2 111S can get mid 40s without really trying, and I think the official extra urban is somewhere around that.

[otolith]

The official Lotus website says 56.1mpg combined - meaning the extra-urban figure should be better still. It will be interesting to see what owners actually get from the car.



(Don't know about the PH article's 45.0mpg combined figure - something is wrong somewhere)

Edit - ah, the Lotus article is talking balls, 56 is extraurban, the full figures are elsewhere on the site:

Fuel consumption - urban
34 mpg (8.3 l/100 km)
Fuel consumption - extraurban
56 mpg (5.0 l/100 km)
Fuel consumption - combined
45 mpg (6.3 l/100 km)

http://www.grouplotus.com/cars/showroom.html#/elis...

Edited by otolith on Tuesday 20th April 11:36

[RobM77]

otolith said:

The official Lotus website says 56.1mpg combined - meaning the extra-urban figure should be better still. It will be interesting to see what owners actually get from the car.



(Don't know about the PH article's 45.0mpg combined figure - something is wrong somewhere)

Edit - ah, the Lotus article is talking balls, 56 is extraurban, the full figures are elsewhere on the site:

Fuel consumption - urban
34 mpg (8.3 l/100 km)
Fuel consumption - extraurban
56 mpg (5.0 l/100 km)
Fuel consumption - combined
45 mpg (6.3 l/100 km)

http://www.grouplotus.com/cars/showroom.html#/elis...

Edited by otolith on Tuesday 20th April 11:36

Based on the figures for my girlfriend's 1.2 Yaris and my 1.8 VVC K series Elise, and comparing with what the 1.8 K VVC did in a saloon weighing the same as the Yaris, I think those figures are quite achievable in the real world for the new Elise.

[dorikin2009]

glazbagun said:

tangerine_sedge said:

Captain Vantage said:

Why will Lotus not offer a reasonably priced car?! The MX-5 which in 2.0 form is more than capable of keeping with a base model Elise is only £18,000. So why would anyone pay over £25,000!! for a car that's slower, less well equipped and even less practical! Like the man said, there is a lot of much faster hot hatches available for that kind of money. Once Britain was spoilt for choice for fun - good value two seater sports cars, MG's, Triumphs etc. Come on Lotus, lets have the glory days back and build a fun two seater for real people.

The 2.0 MX5 is ~2 seconds slower to 60, and about 300Kg heavier. I doubt a standard MX5 would know which way a standard Elise went... Also, perhaps people are willing to pay a premium for a Lotus, over a Mazda? They'll certainly see the price difference at trade in time.

Personally, I think this Elise is too expensive, but it is handmade and low volume whereas most of the competitors mentioned in this thread are high-volume mass-produced. Don't under-estimate the perceived value of relative rarity! Who wants to spunk £25k on a car, just to see 10 on your commute to work every day?

This is what Lotus is up against, and why I fear for their future. They make low volume sportscars which offer an almost unrivalled driving experience. Yet all the majority of customers are worried about is straight line performance and how nice interior is to sit inside- that is their idea of a driving experience. Case in point being the thrashing the Evora's getting in some posts- for the majority, handling come a poor second or third to comfort and bragging rights.

That said, it's always frustrating when they neuter a car.

Edited by glazbagun on Thursday 15th April 15:14

I agree with much of this. It is too expensive, but then again it is an uncompromising little car. Even with a cupholder.

Would be great if they could get a VTEC unit in but I get the impression that Lotus want an anonymous lump powering their cars. Its all about the handling.

[otolith]

dorikin2009 said:

Would be great if they could get a VTEC unit in but I get the impression that Lotus want an anonymous lump powering their cars. Its all about the handling.

I get the impression that if Lotus had been able to swing it for the right money a Honda VTEC lump is exactly what the Elise would have.

[RobM77]

otolith said:

dorikin2009 said:

Would be great if they could get a VTEC unit in but I get the impression that Lotus want an anonymous lump powering their cars. Its all about the handling.

I get the impression that if Lotus had been able to swing it for the right money a Honda VTEC lump is exactly what the Elise would have.

I know it's not made anymore, but I've just had an image in my mind of an Evora powered by an NSX V6

[otolith]

Yes, that would be nice

Along those lines, I have a feeling that it won't be long before you can't source anything more interesting than a blown small capacity four from the mainstream manufacturers. Not a problem for the Elise, but what will Lotus put in their bigger cars when the likes of Toyota and Honda no longer make anything suitable? I know they got by with a rattly old four pot in the Esprit for a long time, but it was never really considered good enough for the car.

[andy_s]

otolith said:

Yes, that would be nice

Along those lines, I have a feeling that it won't be long before you can't source anything more interesting than a blown small capacity four from the mainstream manufacturers. Not a problem for the Elise, but what will Lotus put in their bigger cars when the likes of Toyota and Honda no longer make anything suitable? I know they got by with a rattly old four pot in the Esprit for a long time, but it was never really considered good enough for the car.

Be interesting if the Cosworth link leads to the road cars...

[LuS1fer]

In fairness, Lotus had their own V8. I would imagine that people like BMW will always make some suitable engine, it's just getting it for the right price. I know many would consider it sacrilege but a Chevy V8 in a Lotus, given it's size and compactness, wouldn't be wrong except in the eyes of purists.

[300bhp/ton]

BoRED S2upid said:

I like the fact that after 10 years it hasn't changed looks wise all that much. Still dubious if anyone will ever use cruise control or achieve that magical MPG.

I can think of a hundred occasions in the UK alone that you could use cruise control (think multilane motorways ). Add in a blend of long European highways or American interstates and it's pretty easy to see why it's included as an option.

[300bhp/ton]

That is a fantastic colour!!!

[otolith]

LuS1fer said:

In fairness, Lotus had their own V8. I would imagine that people like BMW will always make some suitable engine, it's just getting it for the right price. I know many would consider it sacrilege but a Chevy V8 in a Lotus, given it's size and compactness, wouldn't be wrong except in the eyes of purists.

They had their own V8... eventually! Risky and expensive business for a low volume manufacturer, building your own engines. Even Mercedes and BMW are looking to downsize to smaller turbocharged engines with fewer cylinders - assuming that the states doesn't go down the same route, Lotus might end up with little choice but looking over the pond for interesting mass market engines.

[dorikin2009]

otolith said:

dorikin2009 said:

Would be great if they could get a VTEC unit in but I get the impression that Lotus want an anonymous lump powering their cars. Its all about the handling.

I get the impression that if Lotus had been able to swing it for the right money a Honda VTEC lump is exactly what the Elise would have.

Not sure if it is just about money. Lotus seem to like using Toyota engines. Maybe Toyota pay them???

[braddo]

LuS1fer said:

In fairness, Lotus had their own V8. I would imagine that people like BMW will always make some suitable engine, it's just getting it for the right price. I know many would consider it sacrilege but a Chevy V8 in a Lotus, given it's size and compactness, wouldn't be wrong except in the eyes of purists.

The LS engines seem to offer it all - light, compact, reliable, powerful, sound great.... About the only thing that seems to count against them for some people is their ubiquity ("not another LS conversion , couldn't you have found something more original and st to drop in?")

[Twincam16]

saaby93 said:

Twincam16 said:

Also, I was given a lift in a Pious the other day. Did a frankly planet-saving 37mpg average in a car that weighed the same as a shipping container specially strengthened to carry an elephant.

It weighs the same as just about any other 1200kg car. What were you doing to get 37mpg or was that an instantaneous reading?

Instantaneous dashboard readout. Just normal driving on normal roads - a mixture of urban clearways and dual-carriageways. The readout gave instant and average mpg readouts - 36 and 37 mpg respectively.

It's not bad, but not impressive when you consider that cheaper, more conventional cars can offer the same size, more performance and better accommodation (headroom in the rear isn't good for a 6+-footer)