RE: Driven: New Lotus Elise 1.6
Discussion
Captain Vantage said:
Why will Lotus not offer a reasonably priced car?! The MX-5 which in 2.0 form is more than capable of keeping with a base model Elise is only £18,000. So why would anyone pay over £25,000!! for a car that's slower, less well equipped and even less practical! Like the man said, there is a lot of much faster hot hatches available for that kind of money. Once Britain was spoilt for choice for fun - good value two seater sports cars, MG's, Triumphs etc. Come on Lotus, lets have the glory days back and build a fun two seater for real people.
I think it all boils down to "handbuilt in small volumes in the UK"
vs
"built in a robotized factory for mass market"
building the car in an less efficient way makes it more expensive to make, therefore to purchase
compared to similar other products.
does not add intrinsic value - unless you buyer value such a property of the artefact - if so you pay for it,
and get a little exclusivity :-)
else go with the mass market
edo111s said:
if so you pay for it,
and get a little exclusivity :-)
else go with the mass market
I understand your point of view, but the trouble is the majority of purpose-built sports cars seem to be out of the price range of most. Certainly out of mine!and get a little exclusivity :-)
else go with the mass market
And from what I can see, with the exception of the MX5, most purpose-built mass market sports cars cost the same if not more than the 1.6 Elise. I was really hoping that a no-frills car would have a no-frills price tag.
Captain Vantage said:
Why will Lotus not offer a reasonably priced car?! The MX-5 which in 2.0 form is more than capable of keeping with a base model Elise is only £18,000. So why would anyone pay over £25,000!! for a car that's slower, less well equipped and even less practical! Like the man said, there is a lot of much faster hot hatches available for that kind of money. Once Britain was spoilt for choice for fun - good value two seater sports cars, MG's, Triumphs etc. Come on Lotus, lets have the glory days back and build a fun two seater for real people.
The 2.0 MX5 is ~2 seconds slower to 60, and about 300Kg heavier. I doubt a standard MX5 would know which way a standard Elise went... Also, perhaps people are willing to pay a premium for a Lotus, over a Mazda? They'll certainly see the price difference at trade in time.Personally, I think this Elise is too expensive, but it is handmade and low volume whereas most of the competitors mentioned in this thread are high-volume mass-produced. Don't under-estimate the perceived value of relative rarity! Who wants to spunk £25k on a car, just to see 10 on your commute to work every day?
Peeved said:
edo111s said:
if so you pay for it,
and get a little exclusivity :-)
else go with the mass market
I understand your point of view, but the trouble is the majority of purpose-built sports cars seem to be out of the price range of most. Certainly out of mine!and get a little exclusivity :-)
else go with the mass market
And from what I can see, with the exception of the MX5, most purpose-built mass market sports cars cost the same if not more than the 1.6 Elise. I was really hoping that a no-frills car would have a no-frills price tag.
If your wanting something more mass market try a 500 Abarth.
That is probably more frills for no frills price tag (£14K) not bad considering the price of a bog standard fiesta is probably not far off £12K.
tangerine_sedge said:
Captain Vantage said:
Why will Lotus not offer a reasonably priced car?! The MX-5 which in 2.0 form is more than capable of keeping with a base model Elise is only £18,000. So why would anyone pay over £25,000!! for a car that's slower, less well equipped and even less practical! Like the man said, there is a lot of much faster hot hatches available for that kind of money. Once Britain was spoilt for choice for fun - good value two seater sports cars, MG's, Triumphs etc. Come on Lotus, lets have the glory days back and build a fun two seater for real people.
The 2.0 MX5 is ~2 seconds slower to 60, and about 300Kg heavier. I doubt a standard MX5 would know which way a standard Elise went... Also, perhaps people are willing to pay a premium for a Lotus, over a Mazda? They'll certainly see the price difference at trade in time.Personally, I think this Elise is too expensive, but it is handmade and low volume whereas most of the competitors mentioned in this thread are high-volume mass-produced. Don't under-estimate the perceived value of relative rarity! Who wants to spunk £25k on a car, just to see 10 on your commute to work every day?
That said, it's always frustrating when they neuter a car.
Edited by glazbagun on Thursday 15th April 15:14
noodleman said:
I'd really like to see what Lotus could do with a clean sheet build of a new Elise.
When it emerged that a new Lotus was to be announced, I think everyone was hoping that this would be the VVA based replacement for the Elise but I guess that was just wishful thinking. I dare say it will happen in the end, as long as they don't do something stupid and nearly go bust again. Could not agree more Glazbagun.
I would rather feel everything, have fun, than be worried about 0 - 60 in X. Yes Speed is part of it but if you cannot feel it then whats the point (Unless your talking about a Rolls Royce)
Plus I dont want my car to have ISO fixings and a Subwoofer, I want to have a fun car!
Normally the only way you cannot be impressed by an Elise is that your on the wrong road!
I would rather feel everything, have fun, than be worried about 0 - 60 in X. Yes Speed is part of it but if you cannot feel it then whats the point (Unless your talking about a Rolls Royce)
Plus I dont want my car to have ISO fixings and a Subwoofer, I want to have a fun car!
Normally the only way you cannot be impressed by an Elise is that your on the wrong road!
kambites said:
20k? Never going to happen without massively cutting back on the quality improvements that Lotus have worked so hard for.Other than making the lid a little less shat, what are these quality improvements of which you speak?
Edited by juansolo on Thursday 15th April 15:27
snotrag said:
Stu_00 said:
Half the point of a sports car is its out of reach!
I absolutely disagree with that!Fair enough if your working hard and not a chav then you deserve a car that feels and is fun .....
Is that a better explanation of my words.juansolo said:
kambites said:
20k? Never going to happen without massively cutting back on the quality improvements that Lotus have worked so hard for.- spits out coffee*
t, what are these quality improvements of which you speak...kambites said:
juansolo said:
kambites said:
20k? Never going to happen without massively cutting back on the quality improvements that Lotus have worked so hard for.- spits out coffee*
t, what are these quality improvements of which you speak...Edited by juansolo on Thursday 15th April 15:29
I had Brooke Kensington's S1 Elise courtesy car for a day earlier in the week, while my 111R was in for a service. Absolutely loved it. Brilliant, brilliant car, entirely see why S1 owners love them. Personally, though, I couldn't live with it. Well, maybe as another car as well as my S2, but my car is as unrefined as I really want to go in something that isn't a track toy - and I wonder whether people who have the idea that the S2 is some kind of GT car realise that it's only refined compared to the S1, and is pretty coarse and noisy compared to something like an MX-5.
juansolo said:
Own a 2006 S2, brother has a 1999 S1. Mine is the one that's constantly needing attention, not his.
I make no claims that later cars are more reliable or that they're better, just that they're generally bolted together better. Of course most older Elises are in far better condition now than they left the factory. For what it's worth, the only thing that has gone down with my 2004 car is the heater fan failing.
Edited by kambites on Thursday 15th April 15:33
The Lotus proposition has always been about low-volume, low-weight and (relatively) low power, targeting a small but highly loyal segment of people. Comparing the Elise to the MX5 or the Focus RS is like apples to oranges: entirely different propositions catering to different market niches; criticising Lotus for not offering a budget "everyman" option is utterly irrelevant as that's never been what they are about.
Captain Vantage said:
Why will Lotus not offer a reasonably priced car?! The MX-5 which in 2.0 form is more than capable of keeping with a base model Elise is only £18,000. So why would anyone pay over £25,000!! for a car that's slower, less well equipped and even less practical! Like the man said, there is a lot of much faster hot hatches available for that kind of money. Once Britain was spoilt for choice for fun - good value two seater sports cars, MG's, Triumphs etc. Come on Lotus, lets have the glory days back and build a fun two seater for real people.
One is a Lotus, one is a Mazda.Whilst in the real world badges shouldn't mean anything, they do (Skoda > VW > Audi).
I would rather drive a £25k Lotus than a £18K Mazda of similar ilk.
Additionally, the Lotus will still be worth a bit after 5 years, not the £3-6k the Mazda will be commanding.
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