RE: EU Kills 1.8-litre Lotuses
Discussion
rypt said:
kambites said:
rypt said:
The Exige 1.8 is better than the the 1.6s though
The Exige uses the same engine, in the same state of tune, as the Elise. My Cupra's 1.4 would probably be not far-off from the SC 1.8 after a remap,215 BHP and a lot more torque...
kambites said:
mainaman said:
My Cupra's 1.4 would probably be not far-off from the SC 1.8 after a remap,215 BHP and a lot more torque...
And probably horrible throttle delays, which probably don't matter much in a hot hatch, but would ruin an Elise. 
Whilst I'll always maintain that it's the Elise's chassis that shines and almost overshadows the engine (often said about cars, but I disagree every time other than with the Elise), you do need certain things from the engine to unleash the chassis' potential - one is an instant, linear and predictable throttle response and the other is instantly available torque (i.e. none of this waiting for turbos to spin up). The reason for this is that the Elise has such immense grip and poise most of one's driving is dancing between bends not varying speed very much, and when you do arrive on a straight you're already going near the speed limit anyway so big straight line power is often wasted. The Elise captivates so much in the corners that when I'm driving mine at least the whole driving experience is focused around the ride over the bumps, the attitude of the car and the corners you're going round. As such, an Elise engine should be instinctive and responsive. That said, I'm sure the standard Toyota engine as fitted to Toyota's more mundane cars has characteristics such as a throttle delay which Lotus remove, so I'm sure Lotus could do something with a smaller turbocharged engine' nevertheless, in the recent past Lotus have always reserved turbos for cars with a different character, such as the Europa, or obviously the VX220T.rypt said:
2zz is under-utilised in the Elise/Exige, an SC 2zz can put out far more power reliably ... unfortunatelt the Toyota gearbox that goes with the engine is weak and cannot handle the torque
That's interesting thanks.I know this makes me sound hypocritical given what I've said above, but I've often been intrigued by the idea of an Elise/Exige with a lot more power (tuned by the factory, so I don't mean a Honda or Audi engined one). As I said above, the engine doesn't matter so much in an Elise or Exige, but it would be nice to have the level of performance offered by Caterham, Atom or Brooke in a Lotus chassis. Let's face it, some of the fastest cars Lotus sell have power to weight ratios barely exceeding the slowest Caterhams on offer, let alone their trackday cars. For example, the Exige S has around 260bhp per tonne, yet even an average Roadsport Caterham like my VVC had over 270 (276 actually), and the R300, 400 and 500 have 330, 440 and 520 bhp/tonne respectively (they're K series figures off the top of my head, but I think the new Duratecs are near that). Yes, the 2-11 packs over 350bhp/tonne in ultimate stripped out track form with the supercharged engine, but if that's Lotus pushing to the max then slotting between the R300 and R400 sees Caterham not even breaking a sweat to compete in an arms race. When lotus are winning group tests on their chassis alone, it does make you think what would happen if we saw a 400bhp Exige!
I stand by what I said above, Lotus don't need more power in their cars, but I can't help thinking it would be good for business if Lotus differentiated the Exige and 2-11 from the rest of the range with radically different power outputs, instead of running the same power as the Elise. The sad fact is that they're already too expensive for most of us at £40k+, so adding a lightweight 400bhp V6 wouldn't help matters! Mind you, they might sell at £50-£60k as a cut price alternative to a GT3...
kambites said:
Why does it have to be a factory car?
Obviously for Lotus it would be good, but for us punters, there are engine swaps to offer exactly that.
Many reasons, and I'd rather not re-open the infamous can of worms. Essentially though, the reason I own a Lotus is for the ride and handling, and therefore I want my car to be exactly as Lotus intended, especially with the major masses in the car where they were when the car left Hethel (or more specifically, when Mr Becker or Mr Kershaw etc had finished with the car!).Obviously for Lotus it would be good, but for us punters, there are engine swaps to offer exactly that.
Edited by kambites on Wednesday 23 June 14:52
If I ever race in the Elise trophy (as I did consider when I last changed championships), for sure, it would be in a Honda engined Elise/Exige (I was toying with a Honda Exige S1, as I had access to a tired Exige S1 with a blown engine at the time). For the road though, I'm different to a lot of petrolheads in that I like to own and cherish an original example of a car exactly as the manufacturer intended it to be. I drive quite carefully on the public road and use my car in all conditions for all sorts of things, so I want the complete package as designed and engineered by Lotus. My enjoyment comes from the subtleties of how the car rides, handles and steers etc. This explains my wording above that I'd "like to see" a faster Lotus, rather than I'd "dream of owning". If a 400bhp Exige or 2-11 came out, I'd buy one, but keep my Elise as an everyday car because I love it so much.
RobM77 said:
rypt said:
2zz is under-utilised in the Elise/Exige, an SC 2zz can put out far more power reliably ... unfortunatelt the Toyota gearbox that goes with the engine is weak and cannot handle the torque
That's interesting thanks.I know this makes me sound hypocritical given what I've said above, but I've often been intrigued by the idea of an Elise/Exige with a lot more power (tuned by the factory, so I don't mean a Honda or Audi engined one). As I said above, the engine doesn't matter so much in an Elise or Exige, but it would be nice to have the level of performance offered by Caterham, Atom or Brooke in a Lotus chassis. Let's face it, some of the fastest cars Lotus sell have power to weight ratios barely exceeding the slowest Caterhams on offer, let alone their trackday cars. For example, the Exige S has around 260bhp per tonne, yet even an average Roadsport Caterham like my VVC had over 270 (276 actually), and the R300, 400 and 500 have 330, 440 and 520 bhp/tonne respectively (they're K series figures off the top of my head, but I think the new Duratecs are near that). Yes, the 2-11 packs over 350bhp/tonne in ultimate stripped out track form with the supercharged engine, but if that's Lotus pushing to the max then slotting between the R300 and R400 sees Caterham not even breaking a sweat to compete in an arms race. When lotus are winning group tests on their chassis alone, it does make you think what would happen if we saw a 400bhp Exige!
I stand by what I said above, Lotus don't need more power in their cars, but I can't help thinking it would be good for business if Lotus differentiated the Exige and 2-11 from the rest of the range with radically different power outputs, instead of running the same power as the Elise. The sad fact is that they're already too expensive for most of us at £40k+, so adding a lightweight 400bhp V6 wouldn't help matters! Mind you, they might sell at £50-£60k as a cut price alternative to a GT3...
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