RE: Driven: Jaguar XKR 75

[Steve_M]

This car is stepping all over Aston Martin's business and I personally would buy one over a DB9 for sure.
Imagine what Jaguar could produce if they went back to a V12 in their flagship performance model

[Twincam16]

Steve_M said:

This car is stepping all over Aston Martin's business and I personally would buy one over a DB9 for sure.
Imagine what Jaguar could produce if they went back to a V12 in their flagship performance model

Something that weighed the same as the Lloyds' Building and offered nothing over the V8 other than increased thirst and maintenance costs, probably.

Seriously, the noise of that Jaguar V8 is the best-sounding production engine since TVR closed it's doors

[kailear]

I thought I would miss the manual gearbox when moving from my TVR to an XKR but the auto box in the Jag really is superb. The speed with which gear changes are delivered is quite incredible and with the throttle blip on downchanges sounds fantastic too. On takeoff you get a wonderfully guttural roar with the machine gun effect kicking in at higher revs. The paddles provide a kind of amusement quite different to the solid mechanical TVR shift but amusement nonetheless! The XKR 75 sounds very well sorted but I have been hugely impressed with my standard 4.2.

[monthefish]

kailear said:

I thought I would miss the manual gearbox when moving from my TVR to an XKR but the auto box in the Jag really is superb. The speed with which gear changes are delivered is quite incredible and with the throttle blip on downchanges sounds fantastic too. On takeoff you get a wonderfully guttural roar with the machine gun effect kicking in at higher revs. The paddles provide a kind of amusement quite different to the solid mechanical TVR shift but amusement nonetheless! The XKR 75 sounds very well sorted but I have been hugely impressed with my standard 4.2.

Finally....the opinion of someone who has actually driven one....

[TheRoadWarrior]

monthefish said:

kailear said:

I thought I would miss the manual gearbox when moving from my TVR to an XKR but the auto box in the Jag really is superb. The speed with which gear changes are delivered is quite incredible and with the throttle blip on downchanges sounds fantastic too. On takeoff you get a wonderfully guttural roar with the machine gun effect kicking in at higher revs. The paddles provide a kind of amusement quite different to the solid mechanical TVR shift but amusement nonetheless! The XKR 75 sounds very well sorted but I have been hugely impressed with my standard 4.2.

Finally....the opinion of someone who has actually driven one....

I love 3-pedals as much as anyone else, but if you're in the market for an auto the box in the Jag is very very good. You will be converted!

In dynamic mode you can bounce the engine off the limiter to your hearts content

I only wish the paddles were either bigger and higher quality feeling or mounted on the column rather than the wheel.

[monthefish]

TheRoadWarrior said:

monthefish said:

kailear said:

I thought I would miss the manual gearbox when moving from my TVR to an XKR but the auto box in the Jag really is superb. The speed with which gear changes are delivered is quite incredible and with the throttle blip on downchanges sounds fantastic too. On takeoff you get a wonderfully guttural roar with the machine gun effect kicking in at higher revs. The paddles provide a kind of amusement quite different to the solid mechanical TVR shift but amusement nonetheless! The XKR 75 sounds very well sorted but I have been hugely impressed with my standard 4.2.

Finally....the opinion of someone who has actually driven one....

I love 3-pedals as much as anyone else, but if you're in the market for an auto the box in the Jag is very very good. You will be converted!

In dynamic mode you can bounce the engine off the limiter to your hearts content

I only wish the paddles were either bigger and higher quality feeling or mounted on the column rather than the wheel.

And me (3 pedal fan).

Having driven an old XK with the hateful J-gate, I was absolutely amazed at how good the box on the X150 was, and it is the car that convinced me that cars can have two pedals and still be amazing to drive quickly.

[kailear]

TheRoadWarrior said:

monthefish said:

Finally....the opinion of someone who has actually driven one....

I love 3-pedals as much as anyone else, but if you're in the market for an auto the box in the Jag is very very good. You will be converted!

In dynamic mode you can bounce the engine off the limiter to your hearts content

I only wish the paddles were either bigger and higher quality feeling or mounted on the column rather than the wheel.

Agree with your point on the paddles - I also find that when turning sharply left at traffic lights it is quite easy to catch the "down" paddle on my knee - it's fine if you realise but otherwise you look a bit of a tool accelerating hard in first and expecting it to change gear (which all happens very quickly). Would prefer them mounted a little further back on the column and a little higher too

[The Pits]

I have driven a 5 litre XKR and thought the auto was very impressive, and I'm an 'over my dead body' type when it comes to slushboxes. The jag auto is much, much smoother than a robotized manual (the worst of both worlds). I'm ashamed to admit it but it's probably a better gearbox for a Jag. Given the complete silky smoothness of everything else about a Jag (pedals and controls, engine, ride) a seamless gearchange is entirely fitting.

I wouldn't for a moment pretend that flipping paddles is anything like as satisfying as a good manual gearchange. The shift quality of the TVR manual gearbox is among the very best ever made (something they're not given much credit for). However I did drive a manual jag (my father's old XJR) and it, well, seemed a bit pointless. Jag do auto's better than anyone and to some degree an auto jag is as it's maker intended.

However a superb manual gearbox in an XKR would still be desirable for me. However a 'so-so' manual would not be preferable to their excellent auto. Given the tiny proportion of customers (like my Dad) who ever ordered a manual jag when they were available, it would never be worth Jaguar engineering a superb manual box, so even if there were one available it would likely be 'so-so'.

Lord what's happened to me since I turned 40?!

[LuS1fer]

I was behind a HUGE XKR convertible the other day and particularly didn't like any of the chintzy bits stuck to the car like Elizabeth Duke jewellery. The fact that this car turns them all black is a very positive move and should be standard.

[chris_w]

TheRoadWarrior said:

In dynamic mode you can bounce the engine off the limiter to your hearts content

I only wish the paddles were either bigger and higher quality feeling or mounted on the column rather than the wheel.

I never understood the point of dynamic mode, on the few times I used it I would end up forgetting and bouncing off the limiter which, if you're accelerating flat out in pretty much any gear, results in quite a violent 'deceleration'.

For me, whilst I enjoy the tactility of a (good) manual change, the paddles open up opportunities to use all of the performance, more of the time; it's so effortless to drop down a couple of gears (and amusing too when accompanied by a throttle blip and possibly a pop and crackle) that you would find yourself giving it the full beans in situations when you normally wouldn't bother. Not good for your mpg though....

Definitely agree on the paddles themselves, should be metal.

[TheRoadWarrior]

chris_w said:

TheRoadWarrior said:

In dynamic mode you can bounce the engine off the limiter to your hearts content

I only wish the paddles were either bigger and higher quality feeling or mounted on the column rather than the wheel.

I never understood the point of dynamic mode, on the few times I used it I would end up forgetting and bouncing off the limiter which, if you're accelerating flat out in pretty much any gear, results in quite a violent 'deceleration'.

For me, whilst I enjoy the tactility of a (good) manual change, the paddles open up opportunities to use all of the performance, more of the time; it's so effortless to drop down a couple of gears (and amusing too when accompanied by a throttle blip and possibly a pop and crackle) that you would find yourself giving it the full beans in situations when you normally wouldn't bother. Not good for your mpg though....

Definitely agree on the paddles themselves, should be metal.

The 'point' as I see it is that when you're just pootling/commuting/whatever you leave it in normal mode and it's a standard auto; if you use the paddles to change down for a corner or roundabout then the car changes gear and after a delay goes back to doing things itself. When you want to be driving in a more overtly sporting manner you stick it in dynamic mode- you get a full screen display of the currently selected gear, changes are governed by the paddles and the car will not change gear itself even if you bump the limiter. It allows you to drive the car as a true manual, albeit one with paddles.

The problem for me with other autos that allow you to change gear is that a lot of them will still interfere with gear changes; either not changing when you ask for the change or not holding a gear as you would expect- for me thats worse than not allowing you any manual control because you cant rely on them to do what you expect so whats the point.

[joscal]

I drove an 07 XKR a couple of weeks ago and came away totally amazed by what a complete car it is. I've had a 996 Turbo and currently drive an M5. The gearbox was amazing, the ride was amazing and the noise was too. I want one badly. Beautiful looking car in the flesh too, although I would agree about all the chrome bits too blingy for my liking. No room in the back either. Does anyone know if you can de-chrome an older model??? I'm seriously considering one... All the doubters should drive one they really are that good IMHO.

[TheRoadWarrior]

joscal said:

I drove an 07 XKR a couple of weeks ago and came away totally amazed by what a complete car it is. I've had a 996 Turbo and currently drive an M5. The gearbox was amazing, the ride was amazing and the noise was too. I want one badly. Beautiful looking car in the flesh too, although I would agree about all the chrome bits too blingy for my liking. No room in the back either. Does anyone know if you can de-chrome an older model??? I'm seriously considering one... All the doubters should drive one they really are that good IMHO.

Some gaffer tape and a can of matt black spray paint.. job done.

[chris_w]

TheRoadWarrior said:

The 'point' as I see it is that when you're just pootling/commuting/whatever you leave it in normal mode and it's a standard auto; if you use the paddles to change down for a corner or roundabout then the car changes gear and after a delay goes back to doing things itself. When you want to be driving in a more overtly sporting manner you stick it in dynamic mode- you get a full screen display of the currently selected gear, changes are governed by the paddles and the car will not change gear itself even if you bump the limiter. It allows you to drive the car as a true manual, albeit one with paddles.

The problem for me with other autos that allow you to change gear is that a lot of them will still interfere with gear changes; either not changing when you ask for the change or not holding a gear as you would expect- for me thats worse than not allowing you any manual control because you cant rely on them to do what you expect so whats the point.

Agree that too much intervention would be a problem, but Sport mode offers complete control without having to worry about the limiter, it just changes up. Can't imagine why you'd ever want to hold the car against the limiter so, apart from the supposed tightening of the suspension, I never really saw the benefit of Dynamic mode over Sport.

[The Pits]

It's not about holding it on the limiter, it's about the car not changing up for you when you don't want it to. I had an Audi S8 with a tiptronic box. What a croc of crap that was (the tiptronic, not the S8). In 'manual' mode it would change up when you hit the limiter. The problem? You go to change up using the stick or paddles and the computer does the same. Result? You got up two gears instead of one and have to flick it down another gear just to get where you wanted. It's potentially very dangerous during an overtaking manoevre because you lose acceleration.

If you're a 'stick it in D' type of driver then you'd probably never know but a 'tiptronic' box is absolutely useless. I would never buy another one. How people can pay extra for any type of porsche with one is totally beyond me.

Conversely it's a Godsend that Jaguar decided to offer full manual control over their box. They debated whether or not they should as some muppet is bound to drive for miles against the limiter without realising (it is a very smooth engine after all). Fortunately for the rest of us they took the right decision. It's the difference between you driving and being chauffeured in my opinion and I'd never buy an XKR or any car that wouldn't let you override the electronic nanny.

[chris_w]

But you're comparing the Jag 'box to the woeful (and outdated) TipTronic, I'm talking about Dynamic versus Sport which are identical bar the auto upshift at the red line should you miss it. To me that's far safer in an overtake and less distracting when pressing on as you don't have to keep an eye on the rev counter - if you miss your upshift you still get seamless acceleration rather than stopping dead on the limiter. Personally I'd like that as an option within Dynamic mode so you can have the tauter suspension setting without the uncompromising shift strategy.

I can honestly say that in over 6,000 miles of driving it never put in an unwanted shift or left me hanging and, against all expectations, felt it added to the experience rather than detracted, it just suits the car perfectly.

[Mannginger]

Looks and sounds like a lovely car. Well done Jag!

[The Pits]

chris_w said:

But you're comparing the Jag 'box to the woeful (and outdated) TipTronic, I'm talking about Dynamic versus Sport which are identical bar the auto upshift at the red line should you miss it. To me that's far safer in an overtake and less distracting when pressing on as you don't have to keep an eye on the rev counter - if you miss your upshift you still get seamless acceleration rather than stopping dead on the limiter. Personally I'd like that as an option within Dynamic mode so you can have the tauter suspension setting without the uncompromising shift strategy.

I can honestly say that in over 6,000 miles of driving it never put in an unwanted shift or left me hanging and, against all expectations, felt it added to the experience rather than detracted, it just suits the car perfectly.

My point is that unless you allow full manual control (ie the ability to bouce it off the limiter) you end up with a tiptronic type system where the car decides to change up for you which is a desperately poor (because you're right, it's better off left in 'D'). I drove a DB9 a year ago and the same problem existed. It actually felt faster leaving it in 'D' as it was difficult to time the laggy upshifts. ie there was no benefit to having manual paddles at all. If you have paddles you have to have full manual control. Thank goodness Jag realise this.

You always have the option to continue to leave your car in 'D' for another 6000 miles. For those of us who like a bit more driver interaction it's nice to have the option of manual control too.

[pb1695]

I had a 5l S/C for a little while last year and pretty much used it in dynamic mode all of the time. Only once did I hit the limiter when my concentration lapsed due to my wife repeatedly asking if it was really necessary to drive in such a spirited manner (her words were "do you to go so fu**ing quickly?), to which I replied "yes". That was the end of the conversation for some time.

The gear indicator on the dash turns very red when you approach the limiter and the lovely sonorous notes from the V8 always reminded me when to change up.

I will be popping down to the local Jag dealer tomorrow to see about a 75 edition, if not a Speed Pack version. Not sure if I should let the good lady know as yet though.

[chris_w]

The Pits said:

My point is that unless you allow full manual control (ie the ability to bouce it off the limiter) you end up with a tiptronic type system where the car decides to change up for you which is a desperately poor (because you're right, it's better off left in 'D'). I drove a DB9 a year ago and the same problem existed. It actually felt faster leaving it in 'D' as it was difficult to time the laggy upshifts. ie there was no benefit to having manual paddles at all.

Laggy? Have you driven an XKR? It's not laggy in any mode and to say the paddles are a waste in anything but the full-fat setting is to ignore one of the cars best features - the ability to switch effortlessly between its Jekyll and Hyde characters at the mere flick of a finger in any of the three settings.

I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this point but otherwise agree it's a stupendous car, now go buy one (and have a play with the gearbox)