Twin engined cars.
Discussion
MTM built a rather mad twin engined Audi TT:
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/802099/audi_mtm_tt_b...
It doesn't handle very well according to an Evo article.
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/802099/audi_mtm_tt_b...
It doesn't handle very well according to an Evo article.
It's all a bit simpler than people imagine.
Think of it like riding a tandem- regardless of the different power levels of the riders, assuming the pedal speed is not too high for one of them to keep up with they will both be able to put their own maximum effort through the cranks. Same with rowing boats, tug of war and lots of other team sports.
In a twin engined car, even if power and gearing is not even, both the engines will work against the load. This is nicely demonstrated by the Tiger z100- in the 0-60 runs they started with the rear engine is 1st gear and the front engine in 2nd. (see how the fronts spin up quickly in the Tiff videos).
So 2 engines, be it 2x100 hp or one 1x150hp + 1x50hp, will do he work of one 200hp engine.
Think of it like riding a tandem- regardless of the different power levels of the riders, assuming the pedal speed is not too high for one of them to keep up with they will both be able to put their own maximum effort through the cranks. Same with rowing boats, tug of war and lots of other team sports.
In a twin engined car, even if power and gearing is not even, both the engines will work against the load. This is nicely demonstrated by the Tiger z100- in the 0-60 runs they started with the rear engine is 1st gear and the front engine in 2nd. (see how the fronts spin up quickly in the Tiff videos).
So 2 engines, be it 2x100 hp or one 1x150hp + 1x50hp, will do he work of one 200hp engine.
s3fella said:
supersingle said:
MarJay said:
Except V8's are road legal, whereas twin engined cars are not IIRC.
Please don't make stuff up on ph. You'll get caught out.Edited by jeebus on Friday 2nd July 23:30
busta said:
It's all a bit simpler than people imagine.
Think of it like riding a tandem- regardless of the different power levels of the riders, assuming the pedal speed is not too high for one of them to keep up with they will both be able to put their own maximum effort through the cranks. Same with rowing boats, tug of war and lots of other team sports.
In a twin engined car, even if power and gearing is not even, both the engines will work against the load. This is nicely demonstrated by the Tiger z100- in the 0-60 runs they started with the rear engine is 1st gear and the front engine in 2nd. (see how the fronts spin up quickly in the Tiff videos).
So 2 engines, be it 2x100 hp or one 1x150hp + 1x50hp, will do he work of one 200hp engine.
thats if they are feeding the same crank, there are several bimotors that have seperate engines feeding each end of the car, there's a famous alfa bimotor iirc that does just this, must be a bThink of it like riding a tandem- regardless of the different power levels of the riders, assuming the pedal speed is not too high for one of them to keep up with they will both be able to put their own maximum effort through the cranks. Same with rowing boats, tug of war and lots of other team sports.
In a twin engined car, even if power and gearing is not even, both the engines will work against the load. This is nicely demonstrated by the Tiger z100- in the 0-60 runs they started with the rear engine is 1st gear and the front engine in 2nd. (see how the fronts spin up quickly in the Tiff videos).
So 2 engines, be it 2x100 hp or one 1x150hp + 1x50hp, will do he work of one 200hp engine.
h to get the power balance right and even harder to maintain it on the sweet spot.jayfish said:
busta said:
It's all a bit simpler than people imagine.
Think of it like riding a tandem- regardless of the different power levels of the riders, assuming the pedal speed is not too high for one of them to keep up with they will both be able to put their own maximum effort through the cranks. Same with rowing boats, tug of war and lots of other team sports.
In a twin engined car, even if power and gearing is not even, both the engines will work against the load. This is nicely demonstrated by the Tiger z100- in the 0-60 runs they started with the rear engine is 1st gear and the front engine in 2nd. (see how the fronts spin up quickly in the Tiff videos).
So 2 engines, be it 2x100 hp or one 1x150hp + 1x50hp, will do he work of one 200hp engine.
thats if they are feeding the same crank, there are several bimotors that have seperate engines feeding each end of the car, there's a famous alfa bimotor iirc that does just this, must be a bThink of it like riding a tandem- regardless of the different power levels of the riders, assuming the pedal speed is not too high for one of them to keep up with they will both be able to put their own maximum effort through the cranks. Same with rowing boats, tug of war and lots of other team sports.
In a twin engined car, even if power and gearing is not even, both the engines will work against the load. This is nicely demonstrated by the Tiger z100- in the 0-60 runs they started with the rear engine is 1st gear and the front engine in 2nd. (see how the fronts spin up quickly in the Tiff videos).
So 2 engines, be it 2x100 hp or one 1x150hp + 1x50hp, will do he work of one 200hp engine.
h to get the power balance right and even harder to maintain it on the sweet spot.
AS said before, you don't need to match the engines, all this crap about syncronising power and revs between them just came from a few bullst max power articles where the installers tried to make it look like they did more work than just bung a front subframe in the back.
The clutch and gearlinkage is the worst bit.
The engine is always, always, slowed down by the load - i.e. Accelerating the mass of the car - ergo, no matching is necessary as both axles on the car are connected by the road, and hence already synchronised.
Magic eh?
Anyhow, it seems a good idea down the pub until you realise that you've just added the weight of another crankcase, water pump, oil pump, crank, bearings, flywheel, clutch, transmission, shafts, hoses, radiator, etc, etc.
It's like that tandem bike someone mentioned earlier - great, you've now got twice the power for when you hit a hill!
But, you've also got two fat bds aboard to drag up there rather than one - the only thing it's helped with is it's made the bicycle feel a bit lighter..
Then you realise that a pair of 100bhp engines in a car are probably not going to be any faster than a nice little turbo bolted on your original 100bhp engine to give it 150-160bhp for about 20kg more weight....
Especially if it's the normal cut-and-shut and front subframe in the rear and hope-to-fk-it-doesn't-kill-you-in-the-wet approach to suspension geometery most of these heaps have...;)
t max power articles where the installers tried to make it look like they did more work than just bung a front subframe in the back.The clutch and gearlinkage is the worst bit.
The engine is always, always, slowed down by the load - i.e. Accelerating the mass of the car - ergo, no matching is necessary as both axles on the car are connected by the road, and hence already synchronised.
Magic eh?
Anyhow, it seems a good idea down the pub until you realise that you've just added the weight of another crankcase, water pump, oil pump, crank, bearings, flywheel, clutch, transmission, shafts, hoses, radiator, etc, etc.
It's like that tandem bike someone mentioned earlier - great, you've now got twice the power for when you hit a hill!
But, you've also got two fat b
ds aboard to drag up there rather than one - the only thing it's helped with is it's made the bicycle feel a bit lighter..Then you realise that a pair of 100bhp engines in a car are probably not going to be any faster than a nice little turbo bolted on your original 100bhp engine to give it 150-160bhp for about 20kg more weight....
Especially if it's the normal cut-and-shut and front subframe in the rear and hope-to-f
k-it-doesn't-kill-you-in-the-wet approach to suspension geometery most of these heaps have...;)Edited by PhillipM on Saturday 3rd July 00:33
Edited by PhillipM on Saturday 3rd July 00:34
Twin engined Scirocco
http://website.lineone.net/~dr.dub/360_4.htm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQREhPfA5w4
VW also made a twin engined Pikes Peak car.
http://www.faltdach.net/vwpikespeakcar.htm
http://website.lineone.net/~dr.dub/360_4.htm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQREhPfA5w4
VW also made a twin engined Pikes Peak car.
http://www.faltdach.net/vwpikespeakcar.htm
SilverPhantom said:
Good article here about VWs attempt, I remember seeing it at the VW factory, dont know where they ended up. Anyone know?
http://www.driversfound.com/scirocco/history/bimot...
There was a bloke in either Canada or the states who made a twin engined Mk2 Scirocco running a pair of 16v motors. Proper hacksaw-and-welding-torch job but looked fast enough.http://www.driversfound.com/scirocco/history/bimot...
http://www.durocco.com/ from memory.
SilverPhantom said:
Good article here about VWs attempt, I remember seeing it at the VW factory, dont know where they ended up. Anyone know?
The DuroccoRDMcG said:
Citroen built and sold a twin engined 2CV called the Sahara IIRC.it was designed for off road use. Also I seem to recall that there was a pre-war Alfa Romeo GP car that was twin engined.
very true. The main problem with these was the clutch and gear linkages as they weren't perfect you could often stall one of the engines. A much better solution to get a 4x4 2cv is provided by a chap called louis Barbour iirc where they take a shaft from the back of the gearbox and link it to a diff at the back. 
ManOpener said:
SilverPhantom said:
Good article here about VWs attempt, I remember seeing it at the VW factory, dont know where they ended up. Anyone know?
http://www.driversfound.com/scirocco/history/bimot...
There was a bloke in either Canada or the states who made a twin engined Mk2 Scirocco running a pair of 16v motors. Proper hacksaw-and-welding-torch job but looked fast enough.http://www.driversfound.com/scirocco/history/bimot...
http://www.durocco.com/ from memory.
Edited by GavinPearson on Saturday 3rd July 16:00
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