RE: Dagger GT Tilts At 300MPH Barrier
Discussion
Anybody remember the Vector (no, not a Vauxhall) or the Bricklin, they failed to survive at the upper level of Supercar
Top Trumps which is surely the name of the game, cue ABBA-maybe not as they all bought BMW M1's.
I can't see the allure of the project, no international pedigree, no dealerships, Mclaren's next F1 type supercar is already planned and it's getting mighty crowded up there in the expensive pool. America has the potential to build an internal market for this car but given health and safety over the pond it will probably be designated as car club use only if it ever takes off-ha!ha!.
Top Trumps which is surely the name of the game, cue ABBA-maybe not as they all bought BMW M1's.
I can't see the allure of the project, no international pedigree, no dealerships, Mclaren's next F1 type supercar is already planned and it's getting mighty crowded up there in the expensive pool. America has the potential to build an internal market for this car but given health and safety over the pond it will probably be designated as car club use only if it ever takes off-ha!ha!.
Not a flaming chance this will work. Look at the lengths (engineering and financial) Bugatti went to with the Veyron to get above 250mph (and now 260mph). There's no way some silly little outfit (relatively speaking) is going to make a 300mph road car a reality. Especially not an American one.
MattjK said:
Not a flaming chance this will work. Look at the lengths (engineering and financial) Bugatti went to with the Veyron to get above 250mph (and now 260mph). There's no way some silly little outfit (relatively speaking) is going to make a 300mph road car a reality. Especially not an American one.
I think the realities of actually making one you'd want to buy or own might be beyond them, but a very long straight, such as part of the Bonneville Salt Flats, combined with 2,000bhp and a reasonably low C of D should make 300mph acheivable. The Americans know a thing or two about big power in straight lines. An awful lot of their car culture is based on it and you can buy a 9.4-litre twin turbo V8, or for that matter a transaxle beefy enough to deliver that power, straight off the shelf. There are amateur individuals running over 300mph at Bonneville in contraptions they made in their own garages - you might not want to drive one to work (or round a corner) like you could a Veyron, but in theory they can reach the appropriate speeds.
MattjK said:
Not a flaming chance this will work. Look at the lengths (engineering and financial) Bugatti went to with the Veyron to get above 250mph (and now 260mph). There's no way some silly little outfit (relatively speaking) is going to make a 300mph road car a reality. Especially not an American one.
You have bought into the Bugatti hype. I'm not saying this outfit will do it, but just because it cost VW 400 odd million to build a car that does 250mph does not mean that it has to cost that much. There are many people who have built cars in their sheds that will achieve 300mph. You can buy >2000 hp engines and gearboxes that will handle the power off the shelf. Similarly with >300mph rated tyres.They might not be as comfy as the Veyron or have £6000 indicator stalks but they can go as fast.
dwilkie said:
InRong Ghia said:
It is around that for a jet engined car. Not sure what it is for a wheel driven car, but 500 could be about enough to take it. In fact a quick look on wiki seems to suggest this is still Malcolm Campbell's at 301 in Blue Bird
Also from the font of all knowledge and thus probably incorrect....Wikipedia said:
There is no "wheel-driven" category as such.[1] The Fédération Internationale de l'Automobile validates records in a variety of classes, of which the "wheel-driven" classes are in Category A (Special cars) and Category B (Production cars). The accepted record is fastest average speed recorded over any one-mile or one-kilometer distance, averaged over two runs in opposite directions (to factor out wind) within one hour of each other. The most recent Wheel-driven record holders have been from a variety of different classes within Category A.
Also says there that the current holder is the Vesco Turbinator at 470.444mph in 2001. Indeed according to that, Campbell lost the title the very next year to Goldenrod - still the non-supercharged pistonengined record at 409.277But to make up I've got wonderful memories of Don Garlits and his Wynns Jammer at the First International Dragfest at Blackbushe Airport in 64 plus my 15/- ticket and 2s 6d programme. Also the MCN pics and report of George Brown's Super Nero Vincent Black Shadow that could do 300mph. Ah, memories, those were the days, real stuff, no renderings.
Stops dreaming
ker lights on the front of everything.hairykrishna said:
MattjK said:
Not a flaming chance this will work. Look at the lengths (engineering and financial) Bugatti went to with the Veyron to get above 250mph (and now 260mph). There's no way some silly little outfit (relatively speaking) is going to make a 300mph road car a reality. Especially not an American one.
You have bought into the Bugatti hype. I'm not saying this outfit will do it, but just because it cost VW 400 odd million to build a car that does 250mph does not mean that it has to cost that much. There are many people who have built cars in their sheds that will achieve 300mph. You can buy >2000 hp engines and gearboxes that will handle the power off the shelf. Similarly with >300mph rated tyres.They might not be as comfy as the Veyron or have £6000 indicator stalks but they can go as fast.
You might not want to own one, negotiate a corner, try and keep it cool or expect it to stay on the ground very long, but I suspect simply reaching 300mph in something you can put a numberplate on isn't beyond the capabilities of a small outfit keeping it simple.
The Veyron is spectacular because it can do it all (well, 268mph of it) while providing addequate cooling, handling like a proper car, maintaining reliability, keeping you cool with airconditioning, starting on a cold morning, offering some degree of crash protection, passing European noise and emissions regulations, packing 4 wheel drive and traction control to make it numptie-proof... etc.
The amazing thing about the Veyron and 'the reason VW had so much trouble' to paraphrase some of the comments above, is that you could practically drive it to work; it's such a complete product. I'm not saying the Dagger will get anywhere - I suspect it won't - but the task of nailing a numberplate to a 300mph Bonneville special is very different to creating a Veyron.
Chris71 said:
hairykrishna said:
MattjK said:
Not a flaming chance this will work. Look at the lengths (engineering and financial) Bugatti went to with the Veyron to get above 250mph (and now 260mph). There's no way some silly little outfit (relatively speaking) is going to make a 300mph road car a reality. Especially not an American one.
You have bought into the Bugatti hype. I'm not saying this outfit will do it, but just because it cost VW 400 odd million to build a car that does 250mph does not mean that it has to cost that much. There are many people who have built cars in their sheds that will achieve 300mph. You can buy >2000 hp engines and gearboxes that will handle the power off the shelf. Similarly with >300mph rated tyres.They might not be as comfy as the Veyron or have £6000 indicator stalks but they can go as fast.
You might not want to own one, negotiate a corner, try and keep it cool or expect it to stay on the ground very long, but I suspect simply reaching 300mph in something you can put a numberplate on isn't beyond the capabilities of a small outfit keeping it simple.
The Veyron is spectacular because it can do it all (well, 268mph of it) while providing addequate cooling, handling like a proper car, maintaining reliability, keeping you cool with airconditioning, starting on a cold morning, offering some degree of crash protection, passing European noise and emissions regulations, packing 4 wheel drive and traction control to make it numptie-proof... etc.
The amazing thing about the Veyron and 'the reason VW had so much trouble' to paraphrase some of the comments above, is that you could practically drive it to work; it's such a complete product. I'm not saying the Dagger will get anywhere - I suspect it won't - but the task of nailing a numberplate to a 300mph Bonneville special is very different to creating a Veyron.
Yes the speed is reachable.
Yes it is too much for the road.
Yes the Veyron is a fast but also "normal use" car.
That Dagger is possible, and should be much much cheaper to make than the Veyron, because without all that top-luxury, polished metals, super leather, etc.
The design is rather good in fact. The more I look at it the more I find it quite logical and even clever. Well, profile-speeking!
hairykrishna said:
MattjK said:
Not a flaming chance this will work. Look at the lengths (engineering and financial) Bugatti went to with the Veyron to get above 250mph (and now 260mph). There's no way some silly little outfit (relatively speaking) is going to make a 300mph road car a reality. Especially not an American one.
You have bought into the Bugatti hype. I'm not saying this outfit will do it, but just because it cost VW 400 odd million to build a car that does 250mph does not mean that it has to cost that much. There are many people who have built cars in their sheds that will achieve 300mph. You can buy >2000 hp engines and gearboxes that will handle the power off the shelf. Similarly with >300mph rated tyres.They might not be as comfy as the Veyron or have £6000 indicator stalks but they can go as fast.
Which would you feel safer doing 268mph in if you had to:
a) Bugatti Veyron
b) Dagger GT
c) Some bloke's car who built it in a shed with an off the shelf engine and gearbox that might be able to handle the *power* but as with the rest of it, will be untested as to how it will handle what physics will do at 268mph
Do you get it yet?
Regarding the Veyron, Piech handicapped his engineers with a preconceived shape and spec. This is the reason it took such colossal £££ and brain cells to make it work. To make it so useable is a staggering achievement. They tested its stability control at Bonneville for crying out loud!
Regarding the Dagger, it taps into much simpler and readily available tech from their motorsports scene.
Still the acceleration figures look like a joke on road tyres.
Top speed looks doable. Nothing in the spec sheet is elaborate, and only the intercoolers seem to be bespoke. Yanks build low tech design with very expensive materials and it works. Inconel exhaust valves are a very serious investment, but one that seems to have been developed already.
Driving experience - defined by numbers, which is what seems to get them off Stateside.
Driving home in the rain from a night at the opera? N'ring laptime quicker than Radical or Pagani?
Regarding the Dagger, it taps into much simpler and readily available tech from their motorsports scene.
Still the acceleration figures look like a joke on road tyres.
Top speed looks doable. Nothing in the spec sheet is elaborate, and only the intercoolers seem to be bespoke. Yanks build low tech design with very expensive materials and it works. Inconel exhaust valves are a very serious investment, but one that seems to have been developed already.
Driving experience - defined by numbers, which is what seems to get them off Stateside.
Driving home in the rain from a night at the opera? N'ring laptime quicker than Radical or Pagani?
(it's only a render)
(massive claims = lots of jizzed y-fronts)ellisd82 said:
Dont care how fast it goes - that car is stunning!
Errm, it's a picture in a computer, not a car. Google up the Aeon Epona to see how much effort it takes to get an actual car built from a computer render. Twenty thousand spotty design students can turn out twenty thousand renders and it doesn't make a lick of difference what any of them say about performance. A picture in a computer has absolutely zero performance in every way, apart from the jizzed y-fronts aspect.Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff