Show us your crash pics!!
Discussion
DannyScene said:
What the hell is the tractor doing side on in the road?
Do you think had you been driving the elise you'd have stopped in time?
More information is needed with this one. I too presume that he turned across you, but that begs the question, how did he manage to not see a fair sized estate car on a straight piece of road?! Do you think had you been driving the elise you'd have stopped in time?
And the same impact in an Exige could well have had a different outcome, indeed!
I was heading in one direction with the tractor (with large trailer) heading in the opposite direction, he then decided to turn into the field across my path and give me a fright.
The tractors insurance company tried to put the blame on me it was all cleared up in the end though (it took a year).
Interesting to consider if I was in the exige would I have stopped quicker and been ok, or been traveling quicker (but still within the speed limit) at the same piece of road? Regardless I wouldn't have wanted the same impact in it.
Dunc.
Edit - It is a long straight stretch, longer than show in the 2nd photo. I've got other photo's but other people are in them so didn't post.
The tractors insurance company tried to put the blame on me it was all cleared up in the end though (it took a year).
Interesting to consider if I was in the exige would I have stopped quicker and been ok, or been traveling quicker (but still within the speed limit) at the same piece of road? Regardless I wouldn't have wanted the same impact in it.
Dunc.
Edit - It is a long straight stretch, longer than show in the 2nd photo. I've got other photo's but other people are in them so didn't post.
Edited by dunc_sx on Wednesday 23 January 10:59
dunc_sx said:
Interesting to consider if I was in the exige would I have stopped quicker and been ok, or been traveling quicker (but still within the speed limit) at the same piece of road? Regardless I wouldn't have wanted the same impact in it.
When anchoring on in a hurry my MK3 Mondeo would pull up pretty sharply, unless an Exige can defy the laws of physics I'd imagine it wouldn't have stopped far enough short to have avoided that collision!If you hadn't hit the tractor the car must have easily had another 20 meters to travel before it would have stopped completely I'd guess!
Blue Oval84 said:
dunc_sx said:
Interesting to consider if I was in the exige would I have stopped quicker and been ok, or been traveling quicker (but still within the speed limit) at the same piece of road? Regardless I wouldn't have wanted the same impact in it.
When anchoring on in a hurry my MK3 Mondeo would pull up pretty sharply, unless an Exige can defy the laws of physics I'd imagine it wouldn't have stopped far enough short to have avoided that collision!If you hadn't hit the tractor the car must have easily had another 20 meters to travel before it would have stopped completely I'd guess!
Without ABS in the Exige my bet is on the Mondeo stopping first. With ABS in the Exige I'd bet on the Exige stopping first.
Because I'm going to guess Dunc instinctively smashed the brake pedal and then waited for the bang. Panic braking in something without ABS typically results in locked wheels and extended distance.
(No matter how much of a driving god someone thinks they are, the element of surprise with tear them a new one, and they will lock up).
dunc_sx said:
... he then decided to turn into the field across my path and give me a fright.
The tractors insurance company tried to put the blame on me
How the Hell did they try to pin that on you? "You drove into our client's tractor deliberately for sThe tractors insurance company tried to put the blame on me
ts & giggles!!"I'm guessing he didn't say anything about intending to give you a fright or things would've been sorted quicker (although how you prove someone said something without a recording would be tricky)?
dunc_sx said:
They do (S2), I agree with your statements though first instinct is to smash the pedal if you get a scare.
EBA just as useful as ABS. Most people's first instinct is actually not to brake hard enough! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_brake_assi...dunc_sx said:
Munter said:
Does an Exige have ABS?
They do (S2), I agree with your statements though first instinct is to smash the pedal if you get a scare.No idea what the opponent's insurance argument was for not being to blame, I just told my insurance to not be silly and sort it out
Dunc.
silentbrown said:
dunc_sx said:
They do (S2), I agree with your statements though first instinct is to smash the pedal if you get a scare.
EBA just as useful as ABS. Most people's first instinct is actually not to brake hard enough! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_brake_assi...silentbrown said:
EBA just as useful as ABS. Most people's first instinct is actually not to brake hard enough! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_brake_assi...
You would be amazed at how many people when being trained in object avoidance, faced with the choice of obliterating a wall of cones or pushing the brake pedal harder will repeatedly plow through the cones. I reckon 20% of people with a far higher than average proportion of ‘interested’ drivers.
Probably about 10% are untrainable in the same test without ABS
Frimley111R said:
Always difficult to tell but the Exige is much lighter and so easier to stop and they often have more sticky track derived tyres too. Although small, the main chassis is very strong. Might even be low enough to go under the tractor
Exiges/Elises aren't bad in head-on collisions against large flatish objects; they have a strong chassis and decent crumple zone. It's every other sort of accident that they're a bloody menace in. 
The Wookie said:
You would be amazed at how many people when being trained in object avoidance, faced with the choice of obliterating a wall of cones or pushing the brake pedal harder will repeatedly plow through the cones.
I reckon 20% of people with a far higher than average proportion of ‘interested’ drivers.
Probably about 10% are untrainable in the same test without ABS
Would you say the people who are unwilling to press the brake harder may have cut their teeth in cars before the era of ABS? I still struggle to just jam the brakes on without getting a feel for potential grip first. I was still driving a non-ABS car as a daily (Mk2 Golf GTI) until about 4 years ago.I reckon 20% of people with a far higher than average proportion of ‘interested’ drivers.
Probably about 10% are untrainable in the same test without ABS
Munter said:
Because I'm going to guess Dunc instinctively smashed the brake pedal and then waited for the bang. Panic braking in something without ABS typically results in locked wheels and extended distance.
(No matter how much of a driving god someone thinks they are, the element of surprise with tear them a new one, and they will lock up).
ABS does not reduce stopping distance. It allows you some limited steering under full braking to give you a chance to avoid the danger. (No matter how much of a driving god someone thinks they are, the element of surprise with tear them a new one, and they will lock up).
If anything, ABS increases stopping distance.
Not Invented Here said:
ABS does not reduce stopping distance. It allows you some limited steering under full braking to give you a chance to avoid the danger.
If anything, ABS increases stopping distance.
Like many things, it's a bit more complicated than that...If anything, ABS increases stopping distance.
Compared to fully-locked wheels on a dry road ABS will be shorter, as dynamic friction is usually lower than static (and we're referring to tyre surface vs road surface).
If you can retain enough control to threshold brake then you might beat an ABS system, as it'll naturally overshoot slightly. The newer the ABS system, however, the better the control around the slip point is. Without practice I highly doubt most normal folks could beat a new ABS system to a stop.
The only situation that doesn't apply is on snow/gravel, where locking the wheels to dig in can be beneficial. In that case ABS can be a right pain, although I believe they're building in ways to recognise this now and disengage ABS.
Krikkit said:
Like many things, it's a bit more complicated than that...
Compared to fully-locked wheels on a dry road ABS will be shorter, as dynamic friction is usually lower than static (and we're referring to tyre surface vs road surface).
If you can retain enough control to threshold brake then you might beat an ABS system, as it'll naturally overshoot slightly. The newer the ABS system, however, the better the control around the slip point is. Without practice I highly doubt most normal folks could beat a new ABS system to a stop.
The only situation that doesn't apply is on snow/gravel, where locking the wheels to dig in can be beneficial. In that case ABS can be a right pain, although I believe they're building in ways to recognise this now and disengage ABS.
Always happy to be educated and anyone pointing out that things are more complex rather than less is on the right side of history in my book, but I'm not sure that the implication that ABS produces a consistently *ideal* amount of dynamic friction (even on a dry road) is correct. ABS produces rapid on-off braking - not a consistent braking - even taking in to account the surface. ABS should always produce less than the theoretical ideal in any case in order to provide a degree of reserve grip to allow for steering. Steering being what ABS is designed for - not shorter straight line braking. Compared to fully-locked wheels on a dry road ABS will be shorter, as dynamic friction is usually lower than static (and we're referring to tyre surface vs road surface).
If you can retain enough control to threshold brake then you might beat an ABS system, as it'll naturally overshoot slightly. The newer the ABS system, however, the better the control around the slip point is. Without practice I highly doubt most normal folks could beat a new ABS system to a stop.
The only situation that doesn't apply is on snow/gravel, where locking the wheels to dig in can be beneficial. In that case ABS can be a right pain, although I believe they're building in ways to recognise this now and disengage ABS.
As you say, a *perfectly* braked car will stop in the shortest distance due to the strongest braking that still doesn't cause static friction or lock-up. ABS may or may not get closer to that than a fantastic (or poor) driver depending on conditions and surface.
gforceg said:
Would you say the people who are unwilling to press the brake harder may have cut their teeth in cars before the era of ABS? I still struggle to just jam the brakes on without getting a feel for potential grip first. I was still driving a non-ABS car as a daily (Mk2 Golf GTI) until about 4 years ago.
I wouldn’t have said so because some people are so far off they wouldn’t lock up a cortina on crossplies in the wet.I think it’s just that people build up experience of not braking that hard, and then a subsection of people simply don’t extrapolate upwards when they really need to stop.
It’s similar to giving someone hot laps, your average person will be going for the invisible brake pedal when I’m still changing up!
Virtually all of them will say ‘oh my god I never realised a car could stop that quickly’ when you demonstrate it. I had one lady actually burst into tears from the shock of it!!
Edited by The Wookie on Wednesday 23 January 23:49
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