RE: V8 Ariel Atom Gets 900bhp Per Tonne

[RobM77]

otolith said:

An anything goes formula would be interesting - but I think you'd end up with jockeys in pressure suits with necks like a sprinter's thighs being driven round by computers.

I don't like saying "we're at the limit" about anything, because nobody can predict the future, but isn't 4-5g lateral cornering and braking force about the limit that the human body could take? Much beyond that they'd have to attach the driver's heads to some sort of support system. At the end of the day, I view it as a sport, and as a spectator I'm happy watching the 700-900bhp 550kg cars like we've had for the last decade or so. It's the overtaking and spectacle I want to see improved.

[otolith]

RobM77 said:

otolith said:

An anything goes formula would be interesting - but I think you'd end up with jockeys in pressure suits with necks like a sprinter's thighs being driven round by computers.

I don't like saying "we're at the limit" about anything, because nobody can predict the future, but isn't 4-5g lateral cornering and braking force about the limit that the human body could take? Much beyond that they'd have to attach the driver's heads to some sort of support system. At the end of the day, I view it as a sport, and as a spectator I'm happy watching the 700-900bhp 550kg cars like we've had for the last decade or so. It's the overtaking and spectacle I want to see improved.

I think higher accelerations would be acceptable with an appropriate pressure suit, although I suppose the direction of the acceleration could be an issue. Red Bull are already using something (though not for the F1 guys)

http://www.redbullairrace.com/cs/Satellite/en_air/...

Perhaps the cockpit could be mounted to rotate around the longitudinal axis?

[CrisW]

Loads more to come from 'unlimited' F1 cars. They'd have options for as much downforce as they wanted, active aero, 4WD etc etc

In the end you'd remove the driver and run it as a super RC car.

None the less the Atom is none of this, it's not a track only car with downforce. How much quicker a proper racing car would be is irrelevant to this car as they aren't road legal and this is. On that basis alone people will buy it.

It is more relevant to compare it to a fast bike but again that's probably closer to the truth for the 'normal' Honda powered examples.

It's nice to see Atom producing cars like these. I especially like the idea of the engine. Any of these bike based V8s seem like a wonderful to have sat in a lightweight sportscar. The more they catch on then (hopefully) the cheaper the engines become. Surely someone is working on transplanting one into a mk1 Elise. I suspect that they would be similar weight to the k-series and maybe a better (lower) distribution.

Hmmmmmmm

[RobM77]

CrisW said:

Surely someone is working on transplanting one into a mk1 Elise. I suspect that they would be similar weight to the k-series and maybe a better (lower) distribution.

It's be great wouldn't it? Personally, I'd go for a mk2, given the advances made over the mk1, and probably an Exige with a full cage for added stiffness.

[peter pan]

Some one is working on putting a 600 bhp plus bike derived V6 into an elise base chassis, the surprising thing is the gearbox needed to handle the power looks bigger than the engine it is attached to!

[militantmandy]

Just read on article in TG that reckons it's actually very exploitable and not as hard to drive as you might imagine. Time distortingly quick though when off the leash! Fantastic thing!

[BigBen]

militantmandy said:

Just read on article in TG that reckons it's actually very exploitable and not as hard to drive as you might imagine. Time distortingly quick though when off the leash! Fantastic thing!

This is one of the reasons the car has taken so long to develop, Ariel have worked very hard on making it an easy car to drive round town and not 'just' a mad race track special. By all accounts they have achieved this.

[RobM77]

militantmandy said:

Just read on article in TG that reckons it's actually very exploitable and not as hard to drive as you might imagine. Time distortingly quick though when off the leash! Fantastic thing!

That's good to hear, especially seeing as I don't think TG employ racing drivers to do their tests It must be very well resolved.

[CraigyMc]

RobM77 said:

CrisW said:

Surely someone is working on transplanting one into a mk1 Elise. I suspect that they would be similar weight to the k-series and maybe a better (lower) distribution.

It's be great wouldn't it? Personally, I'd go for a mk2, given the advances made over the mk1, and probably an Exige with a full cage for added stiffness.

What advances?

[RobM77]

CraigyMc said:

RobM77 said:

CrisW said:

Surely someone is working on transplanting one into a mk1 Elise. I suspect that they would be similar weight to the k-series and maybe a better (lower) distribution.

It's be great wouldn't it? Personally, I'd go for a mk2, given the advances made over the mk1, and probably an Exige with a full cage for added stiffness.

What advances?

There's a long list of advances of the S2 over the S1, although admittedly most of them are relevant to the standard car, and if a car was being heavily modified such as we're suggesting, then it perhaps wouldn't make quite as much difference because all the changes could be done to an S1 if necessary.

This is what I'm aware of. No doubt the list is longer:

The main advances in ride and handling were:

• 20mm lower
• Stiffer to contain roll better, and damper tuning further refined
• Aero changed from the S1's slight lift at high speed, moreso at the front giving high speed oversteer, to slight downforce at high speed, moreso at the front giving slight understeer. This is how most racing cars are set up on their aero - agile at low speed but with slight understeer at high speed.
• Bespoke tyres designed for the car's unusual weight distribution and overall mass. The S1 just had off the shelf tyres, which were unsuitable for the application, mainly because the fronts were very lightly loaded, leading to problems with wet weather grip at the front. If they made them thinner to cut through standing water better then they were too skinny and made the car understeer in the dry. The S2 brought in bespoke tyres which were narrow at the front for wet grip, but a softer compound than the rears to balance the car better in the dry.

And other advances include:

• Lower NVH
• Lower sills to improve access
• S2 short tail brought in a roof that took seconds to erect, not minutes, and was simpler, so subject to fewer problems.
• Leaks have been fixed, mainly with the hood, boot and headlight covers.
• Boot release cable. This was troublesome due to the cable rusting, and meant that anyone who broke into the car could access the boot. The boot is now lockable only, which is a big step forward for security.
• The rear glass and roll hoop cover caused problems (a friend of mine had his blow off right in front of me once!). They're now fixed, which solves the problem.
• The seats are massively more comfortable. The S1 seats gave me severe bum ache after just a few minutes, whereas the new ones are actually designed by an osteopath and are better than most ordinary cars.
• Squeaky clutch pedal fixed.
• throttle closure issue solved
• I may be corrected on this, but I think the brake and clutch pedal design was changed with the S2 to make them less slippery and therefore safer.

All of these things (other than the sill height, which isn't too much trouble on the S1 if you're agile enough), can be modified on an S1, I just think that if I was going to pick an Elise to modify I might as well start further on with an S2.

The S1 did have one advantage over the S2, and that was weight. The difference isn't actually as great as some people like to make out though; the launch figures for the S1 for instance include the special lightweight brake discs, which didn't last very long in product anyway; probably 95% of S1s out there now don't run them. The only actual weight differences were tiny things here and there and the lowering of the sill and addition of strenghtening honeycomb to make up for the sill that was lost.

The common belief out there seems to be that the S1 was more of a driver's car because it was more raw, i.e. noisier. That is of course nonsense, but strangely the belief persists.

Conceptually, the S1 is the more historically significant car and has a purity of feel about it which I find rather captivating. I would definitely go for an S2 though as a project car for an engine transplant.

[dinkel]

Check the AutoCar clip: awesome!

[otolith]

Oh dear Rob, now you've gone and done it...

[RobM77]

otolith said:

Oh dear Rob, now you've gone and done it...

I did think that actually after I clicked Submit... Oh well!

[StottyZr]

How long until somebody fits a turbo to that engine? :P

[dinkel]

dinkel said:

Check the AutoCar clip: awesome!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GVfFCH-7_c

[Edmundo2]

For that money I would buy a single seater Force or similar with circa 900 bhp per ton for say £25/£30k and go hillclimbing sprinting so that you could actually exploit the performance ,(which would likely sh*t all over the Atom to boot). That would free up £120k with which to buy a fully loaded Race transporter with swimming pool, helipad, play bunnies etc.. + change for a nice 911 or similar as an every day hack!

The Atom looks great but a tad steep me thinks?

[HBFS]

I could go on about all the things I love about this car but heres not doubt they'll have already been said.
Though unlikely I seriously hope one of these is picked up by a motor experience company so I can have a go!