RE: Spartan-V: The 300kg Bike-Engined Track Car

[thejudderman]

mrmr96 said:

crostonian said:

That's how I understand it, so wheels/tyres, brakes, engine and all other bits n bobs are on top of the 300kg

If that's the case then it's much more plausible!

Much more plausible, but makes the top speed even less plausible! The Ducati 1198s will hit around 175-180 at a guess, and it's weight (road ready, less rider) will be around 180kg.

I'll bet it hits 140 max.... But it kind of misses the point of it anyway.

Aesthetically though, I love it. The extra torque afforded by using a large twin might also prove to be a wise move in a car.

[Galsia]

Very pretty although far too expensive.

[annodomini2]

thejudderman said:

mrmr96 said:

crostonian said:

That's how I understand it, so wheels/tyres, brakes, engine and all other bits n bobs are on top of the 300kg

If that's the case then it's much more plausible!

Much more plausible, but makes the top speed even less plausible! The Ducati 1198s will hit around 175-180 at a guess, and it's weight (road ready, less rider) will be around 180kg.

I'll bet it hits 140 max.... But it kind of misses the point of it anyway.

Aesthetically though, I love it. The extra torque afforded by using a large twin might also prove to be a wise move in a car.

At this speed, weight it pretty much irrelevant in comparison to drag, depends how slippery it is.

[thejudderman]

annodomini2 said:

thejudderman said:

mrmr96 said:

crostonian said:

That's how I understand it, so wheels/tyres, brakes, engine and all other bits n bobs are on top of the 300kg

If that's the case then it's much more plausible!

Much more plausible, but makes the top speed even less plausible! The Ducati 1198s will hit around 175-180 at a guess, and it's weight (road ready, less rider) will be around 180kg.

I'll bet it hits 140 max.... But it kind of misses the point of it anyway.

Aesthetically though, I love it. The extra torque afforded by using a large twin might also prove to be a wise move in a car.

At this speed, weight it pretty much irrelevant in comparison to drag, depends how slippery it is.

True; but doubling the weight and increasing the frontal area subtantially, I can't see it coming within the quoted 5mph of the bike.... The bike isn't exactly poorly designed aero-wise (presuming they speed test with a Dani Pedrosa sized chap on it).

[Noger]

virgil said:

Why is 300kg hard to believe?

Think of it as a 4 wheeled track bike rather than a light weight car...you've basically got 140kg 'spare' to play with for the additional brakes, wheels/tyres etc etc.

No road safety or car emmitions stuff to contend with...it's like gordon murry's light car company rocket but with a bigger body...nothing new really...

That is still 70kg less that either a Rocket or a stripped out Caterham Fireblade.

[Noger]

thejudderman said:

annodomini2 said:

thejudderman said:

mrmr96 said:

crostonian said:

That's how I understand it, so wheels/tyres, brakes, engine and all other bits n bobs are on top of the 300kg

If that's the case then it's much more plausible!

Much more plausible, but makes the top speed even less plausible! The Ducati 1198s will hit around 175-180 at a guess, and it's weight (road ready, less rider) will be around 180kg.

I'll bet it hits 140 max.... But it kind of misses the point of it anyway.

Aesthetically though, I love it. The extra torque afforded by using a large twin might also prove to be a wise move in a car.

At this speed, weight it pretty much irrelevant in comparison to drag, depends how slippery it is.

True; but doubling the weight and increasing the frontal area subtantially, I can't see it coming within the quoted 5mph of the bike.... The bike isn't exactly poorly designed aero-wise (presuming they speed test with a Dani Pedrosa sized chap on it).

Weight doesn't matter that much, frontal area and aero (giving CdA) and bhp are what count.

Even if we are very generous with the CdA (say .4m^2) it would still need 235bhp to hit 170. And that open top won't help Cd.

[Hungry Freak]

I can believe the performance figures. Reminds me of the Panhard LM64, which used a 78bhp 848cc twin to get up to 140mph. Weighed a bit more than this Spartan, good aero is key.

[Chris71]

It's a touch expensive, but I think they've got the right idea.

300kg for the rolling chassis (minus engine) isn't completely unrealistic. You can get two-seat road-going Seven-type kit cars down to not much more than 400kg complete with a bike engine using conventional materials. Minus engine a few other bits I can see a single-seat carbon fibre example getting down to not much more than 300kg.

As for the performance, well the biggest problem for bike-powered Tigers, Sylvas etc. is they still have the Seven's horrendous aerodynamics to contend with. If you could get the drag down to bike levels (bigger frontal area, but better Cd) then the the top speed would theoretically be the same.

[Oddball RS]

Looks great a modern day Lotus track toy, whats up with the name? famed for (Eventually loosing) an epic battle against massive odds, seems a good name for such a car?

[dirty boy]

I think it is positively gorgeous.

Similar to

[dirty boy]

Weirdly, the Maserati logo looks a bit like a Spartan helmet logo if you turn it upside down too

[ManOpener]

Oddball RS said:

Looks great a modern day Lotus track toy, whats up with the name? famed for (Eventually loosing) an epic battle against massive odds, seems a good name for such a car?

I think it's a double entendre- spartan, as in bare/no equipment as well as a heroic warrior.

[vintageracer01]

Very pretty shape.

[PhillipM]

Those brake discs look familiar

Beautiful car though.

[JayPee]

I want that shape, with a fibreglass body, a more realistic kit car weight, built by some kit car company for a third of the price. The shape needs to be the same though

[virgil]

Noger said:

virgil said:

Why is 300kg hard to believe?

Think of it as a 4 wheeled track bike rather than a light weight car...you've basically got 140kg 'spare' to play with for the additional brakes, wheels/tyres etc etc.

No road safety or car emmitions stuff to contend with...it's like gordon murry's light car company rocket but with a bigger body...nothing new really...

That is still 70kg less that either a Rocket or a stripped out Caterham Fireblade.

Yes but a stripped out caterham is a car with a bike engine. not a bike with 4 wheels. There is a defference.

A caterham 'probably' has a much more robust chassis (certainly made of steel and the shape does not allow a compact structure). It's got car brakes, car uprights, car fuel tank...This red blob could get away with a much more compact chassis when starting from fresh.

Bike brakes. Bike shocks, bike sized fuel tank...it all adds up to lots of savings...

Also I'm guessing it's 300kg dry weight, not with fuel and oil etc...and a caterham still has lights, cats etc, etc.

As you make a car heavier you have to make it stronger, the same goes the other way but most times you are limited to using car strength off the shelf components. Use bike stuff and it's all SO much lighter....

If you put a ducati in a pile of bits on the floor and added what's needed to make it 4 wheels with a flimsy CF body I don't see whay you couldn't get it down to 300kgs...

[Gluteus Maximus]

lgomgf said:

Twincam16 said:

God that's beautiful, reminiscent of the Maserati 'birdcage'. Ducati engine should sound fantastic too. Pity it won't be road-legal as I could see this bridging the gap between the likes of Caterham and the Elise.

That was my feeling, no headlights not road legal... a pity... I would love to drive a duc powered car on the back roads and scare the sh*t of bikers like me...

That was the premise of the Fiat F500.

http://www.f500.co.uk/intro.htm

I have been checking this website for nearly 6 years. It was recently massively overhauled (the website), but as of yet nothing has materialised.

[mrmr96]

virgil said:

Noger said:

virgil said:

Why is 300kg hard to believe?

Think of it as a 4 wheeled track bike rather than a light weight car...you've basically got 140kg 'spare' to play with for the additional brakes, wheels/tyres etc etc.

No road safety or car emmitions stuff to contend with...it's like gordon murry's light car company rocket but with a bigger body...nothing new really...

That is still 70kg less that either a Rocket or a stripped out Caterham Fireblade.

Yes but a stripped out caterham is a car with a bike engine. not a bike with 4 wheels. There is a defference.

A caterham 'probably' has a much more robust chassis (certainly made of steel and the shape does not allow a compact structure). It's got car brakes, car uprights, car fuel tank...This red blob could get away with a much more compact chassis when starting from fresh.

Bike brakes. Bike shocks, bike sized fuel tank...it all adds up to lots of savings...

Also I'm guessing it's 300kg dry weight, not with fuel and oil etc...and a caterham still has lights, cats etc, etc.

As you make a car heavier you have to make it stronger, the same goes the other way but most times you are limited to using car strength off the shelf components. Use bike stuff and it's all SO much lighter....

If you put a ducati in a pile of bits on the floor and added what's needed to make it 4 wheels with a flimsy CF body I don't see whay you couldn't get it down to 300kgs...

Things which will be required to take it from being a bike to a 'bike with 4 wheels':
4x Car wheels, with tyres.
-2x Bike wheels, with tyres
4x Multilink suspension swing arms
2x additional spring/dampers (i.e. 2 sets on bike already)
2x Anti roll bars
4x Wheel hubs.
1x Steering rack and wheel
-1x Handlebars
1x Seat
1x Harness
2x Drive shafts
1x Pedal box
2x additional brake discs, calipers, pads, lines. (i.e. 2 on the bike already)
+a bit for the bodywork and larger chassis

Apologies if this list is incomplete (which I suspect it is) but I would imagine that there's more weight to add in turning it from a bike to 'a 4 wheeled bike' (if that's what you want to call it) than you have allowed for.

I agree that it may be 300kg for the chassis and body, but there's no way that it could be under 300kg including engine, drivetrain, fluids (exc fuel), wheels, brakes etc. (i.e. ready to run).

Edited by mrmr96 on Thursday 16th September 15:28

[Chris71]

Oddball RS said:

Looks great a modern day Lotus track toy, whats up with the name? famed for (Eventually loosing) an epic battle against massive odds, seems a good name for such a car?

[pedant]
They lost that one, yes, but a year or so after Thermopylae they fought the Persians again and won a decisive victory (with the help of some of the other greek armies) that permanently ended the invasion of Greece.
[/pedant]

[Ian_sUK]

Our formula student car (V twin) was 198.5kg using carbon for only the bodywork, the lowest I know of is 135kg (single) using more carbon and magnesium. You've then got 165kg for an extra cylinder and general beefing and size increases.