RE: Spyker: Yes, We Do Want BMW Engines For Saab
Discussion
va1o said:
900T-R said:
ArtVandelay said:
I thought the MINI used a Peugeot/Citroen unit or is that just the case in the Cooper S
Diesels were PSA units, since a couple of months replaced with a lower-capacity (1.6l rather than 2.0l), transverse development of the BMW four pot (as in x16d, x18d x20d, x23d etc)...The PSA diesels must hold the record for been used in the most number of cars. On top of the MINI its found in Citroens, Peugeots, Mazdas, Volvos, Fords and a Suzuki.
Anyway, back on topic...I'd love to see Saab get a really good 4-pot turbo again. I had the full-pressure B202 (or was it B204?) in my 9000, and it was wonderful. Very over-engineered and completely bullet-proof. Even my ham-fisted efforts with a bleed valve couldn't scratch it.
peter450 said:
BMW do make some very nice engines, i think the problem here is there not the ones there selling to Saab, my money is on them getting the inline 4's, which correct me if i'm wrong, but these units are more or less the same standard as other inline 4's found in Fords, Vauxalls etc, in which case i say whats the point?, they may aswell just stick with GM unless there getting them cheaper from BM
That's not the point BMW compete with SAAB on many models so you might as well buy a BMW if it's the same engineWhat happened to the Subaru flat 4s if they want something different?
Or is that not European enough?
As far as 4-pot turbos go the only BMW has is the jointly developed PSA 1.6 THP used in the MINI Cooper S/ JCW, which is pretty similar to the GM 1.6T that SAAB are supposed to be chucking in the new 9-5 soon. Both 180bhp, not a massive amount for a car of that size.
I really think its only the diesels that can benefit SAAB, as the GM units are a bit outdated and un-competitive. 4-cylinders are what about 80% of the market demands, but a 6-cylinder 9-3/ 9-5 with the BMW 30d engine would be a nice bit of machinery.
I really think its only the diesels that can benefit SAAB, as the GM units are a bit outdated and un-competitive. 4-cylinders are what about 80% of the market demands, but a 6-cylinder 9-3/ 9-5 with the BMW 30d engine would be a nice bit of machinery.
saaby93 said:
That's not the point BMW compete with SAAB on many models so you might as well buy a BMW if it's the same engine
Not really, as the idea is the SAAB will be quite a bit cheaper than the BMW with the same engine. A bit like an Octavia 2.0 TDI costing a lot lot less than an Audi A4 2.0 TDI.Edited by va1o on Tuesday 28th September 21:37
Saab should get out of the oil burning market altogether and concentrate on making low volume quirky cars which increase the value of the product with quality, performance and design, which is what Saabs trademark once was before GM cheapened the brand and raped it of its Swedish ingenuity.
Lady
Lady
Denorth said:
for some reason I recalled Rover 75 and the story about that car being FrontWD and powered by BMW. It's not with us anymore. Not that I miss it (although many said it was a decent designed and built car), but I wouldn't want to see this happen to SAAB 
Only the Diesel was a BMW engine the others were Rover K series.Edited by Denorth on Tuesday 28th September 10:13
Saab used German Ford V4s in the 95/96 models and early 99s used the Triumph (not Ricardo) slant 4. Post 900 GM were used. Many companies share engines and other parts. Better that they get good engines rather than wither slowly. The might end up taking a BMW engine and improve it themselves like they did with the Triumph engine.
Saab already have a relationship with a superb engine maker... Subaru... remember the 9-2X "Saabaru". So, why not continue with them? They have a decent diesel and powerful petrol turbo engines, they are reliable, have low CoG, have a similar "quirky" brand, great AWD system so what's not to like?
t that GM dropped them in, self congratulation, self congratulation, a bit more patting on the back.Alfanatic said:
bencollins said:
often wondered about this myself, also it doesnt lengthen the car, merely the wheelbase.
A few have done it over the years, notably Renault in the '80s on some or other car - can't remember which. It works well for balance but lengthens the car a bit because it puts the engine where you would otherwise put the front passengers' feet.- pedant mode* lengthening wheelbase doesnt lengthen a car, if the front overhang is reduced appropriately. Seems like a sensible packaging effort by ye olde renault, would be good nowadays for pedestrian engine headbanging and also anti bulbous styling.
I think people are getting off the point when talking about 6-cylinder engines etc. Saab do not really need these, at least not for Europe.
Even BMW themselves actually sell very small numbers of 6-cylnder cars. The vast majority of 5-Series are 520d's (accounting for something like 70% of sales in some markets). It is the same story over at Audi where most A6's are 2.0 TDI's.
Even the US market is moving away from the larger engines leaving only places like the Middle East still buying large engined cars in any significant numbers.
In the "standard" European 2.0 litre diesel circa 180ps "large executive" sector the odd CO2 and mpg makes a huge difference to fleet and leasing purchases and can be the decider on success or failure.
Even BMW themselves actually sell very small numbers of 6-cylnder cars. The vast majority of 5-Series are 520d's (accounting for something like 70% of sales in some markets). It is the same story over at Audi where most A6's are 2.0 TDI's.
Even the US market is moving away from the larger engines leaving only places like the Middle East still buying large engined cars in any significant numbers.
In the "standard" European 2.0 litre diesel circa 180ps "large executive" sector the odd CO2 and mpg makes a huge difference to fleet and leasing purchases and can be the decider on success or failure.
Now official... press release this morning from BMW Four cylinder engine supply will start in 2012
The BMW Group has received a major order from Swedish automobile manufacturer Saab to provide petrol engines. The contract for delivery of the engines as of 2012 was signed on Wednesday by Ian Robertson, member of the Board of Management of BMW AG, responsible for Sales and Marketing, and the CEO of Saab Automobile, Jan Åke Jonsson, in Trollhättan in Sweden. The 4-cylinder engine with latest fuel savings technologies is intended for a new Saab model series. Both companies have agreed not to disclose any financial or contract volume details.
“We are continuing to expand our powertrain system sales business worldwide as planned as part of our Strategy Number ONE. Today’s agreement marks another important milestone along this route,” explained Robertson. “We are delighted to support Saab with our engine expertise. Our engines have a clear lead over the competition when it comes to fuel consumption, emissions and performance,” Robertson added.
“It gives me great pleasure to confirm this exciting new relationship. BMW Group’s engines and their fuel savings innovations are widely regarded as a benchmark in the premium segment. We look forward to integrating this technology into our next-generation vehicles in a true Saab way,” noted Jonsson.
The engine, which will feature Start-Stop and other measures designed to reduce emissions and fuel consumption, will be assembled at the BMW Group’s Hams Hall engine plant in the UK.
Engine development and construction are among the BMW Group’s core competences and have shaped the company since it was founded in 1916. Today, the BMW Group has a strong network with a total of 24 production facilities in 13 countries, including three engine plants in Steyr, Austria; Munich, Germany; and Hams Hall, UK.
Four cylinder engine supply will start in 2012 The BMW Group has received a major order from Swedish automobile manufacturer Saab to provide petrol engines. The contract for delivery of the engines as of 2012 was signed on Wednesday by Ian Robertson, member of the Board of Management of BMW AG, responsible for Sales and Marketing, and the CEO of Saab Automobile, Jan Åke Jonsson, in Trollhättan in Sweden. The 4-cylinder engine with latest fuel savings technologies is intended for a new Saab model series. Both companies have agreed not to disclose any financial or contract volume details.
“We are continuing to expand our powertrain system sales business worldwide as planned as part of our Strategy Number ONE. Today’s agreement marks another important milestone along this route,” explained Robertson. “We are delighted to support Saab with our engine expertise. Our engines have a clear lead over the competition when it comes to fuel consumption, emissions and performance,” Robertson added.
“It gives me great pleasure to confirm this exciting new relationship. BMW Group’s engines and their fuel savings innovations are widely regarded as a benchmark in the premium segment. We look forward to integrating this technology into our next-generation vehicles in a true Saab way,” noted Jonsson.
The engine, which will feature Start-Stop and other measures designed to reduce emissions and fuel consumption, will be assembled at the BMW Group’s Hams Hall engine plant in the UK.
Engine development and construction are among the BMW Group’s core competences and have shaped the company since it was founded in 1916. Today, the BMW Group has a strong network with a total of 24 production facilities in 13 countries, including three engine plants in Steyr, Austria; Munich, Germany; and Hams Hall, UK.
volvoforlife said:
I thought the 1.6 Mini engine was not from BMW and something made in Brazil?
Thats the Tritec engine... was fitted in 1st Gen MINIs up until Late 2006, and in the convertible until 2007. Since 2007 MINIs have used the 'Prince' engine co-developed between PSA and BMW, and a PSA diesel unit. The PSA diesel unit was replaced earlier this year (March ish) with BMWs own 1.6 diesel produced at Hams Hall in Birmingham
So all MINIs engines are now produced in Brum saaby93 said:
Are you sure it's diesel?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_engine
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_engine
minicab said:
used the 'Prince' engine co-developed between PSA and BMW, and a PSA diesel unit.
Edited by minicab on Wednesday 29th September 12:43
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