Too many former keepers?
Discussion
The Audi had 6 previous owners, if memory serves, so I became number eight in her fourteen years. Not something that concerned me at all, since it's the kind of car that someone would buy quite cheap because they liked the idea of it, then be unable to fuel the thing. I'm not sure how much bearing this ownership history had on her care, but she went straight through an MOT four months later and has cost me about ten quid in maintenance in 16 months 
As you say yourself, I would treat this sort of thing the same as mileage, really. A small factor that condition should override.
As you say yourself, I would treat this sort of thing the same as mileage, really. A small factor that condition should override.
I dont see the problem. I buy on condition. I never keep a car more than a year and its not to avoid costs. In the last month, i have taxed, serviced, 4 new tyres, and mot it today. I just like changing cars as im sure alot of other 'piston heads' do too. Im putting it up for sale tomorrow. I have probably spent £1000 doing that.
So if everyone does this to a car, it makes it look like a lot of owners. Not everyone sells to avoid a bill.
So if everyone does this to a car, it makes it look like a lot of owners. Not everyone sells to avoid a bill.
I really don't think it is irrelevant. I think that fewer owners is a good thing in a car. If the price and documentation is right and the car appears cared for then fine, but in general, more owners = less enticing for me for a number of reasons:
1) It's harder to prove history of the car. Less owners means less chances for paperwork etc to get lost so you'll have a better overall idea of how the car has been cared for, whether you need to pay attention to specific points etc.
2) People who keep cars longer and intend to keep the car are more inclined to undertake preventative maintenance, servicing etc to protect their investment and ensure that their car is reliable for them. People selling it on don't care, by and large. Use it, sell it, get something else.
3) People tend to sell a car when it starts handing out big bills. In the case of the OP - SMG box? VANOS? Have these areas been properly addressed or have they been patched up to flog the car on once it's cost it's owner a bit? Likewise, what kind of car gets sold on every year? Yes, some people may sell a car every 6 months, but if one car has always been sold after 6-9 months I'd be suspicious.
4) Resale value. More owners = less value.
5) Experience. I've had 2 cars with high numbers of owners (8 and 12) and they were both dogs. I've had 3 cars with lower numbers of owners (but similar ages) and they have been much better cared for examples and given fewer problems.
E36M3 at 12 years old with 7 owners? By no means outrageous, but I'd be wanting a keen price and everything else in order in particular big cost common failure points before I handed over the cash.
1) It's harder to prove history of the car. Less owners means less chances for paperwork etc to get lost so you'll have a better overall idea of how the car has been cared for, whether you need to pay attention to specific points etc.
2) People who keep cars longer and intend to keep the car are more inclined to undertake preventative maintenance, servicing etc to protect their investment and ensure that their car is reliable for them. People selling it on don't care, by and large. Use it, sell it, get something else.
3) People tend to sell a car when it starts handing out big bills. In the case of the OP - SMG box? VANOS? Have these areas been properly addressed or have they been patched up to flog the car on once it's cost it's owner a bit? Likewise, what kind of car gets sold on every year? Yes, some people may sell a car every 6 months, but if one car has always been sold after 6-9 months I'd be suspicious.
4) Resale value. More owners = less value.
5) Experience. I've had 2 cars with high numbers of owners (8 and 12) and they were both dogs. I've had 3 cars with lower numbers of owners (but similar ages) and they have been much better cared for examples and given fewer problems.
E36M3 at 12 years old with 7 owners? By no means outrageous, but I'd be wanting a keen price and everything else in order in particular big cost common failure points before I handed over the cash.
It depends, a car with advisories on its MOT or a short MOT and lots of owners would have me cautious, the same car with no advisories and a file of bills for work and I would be more confident. Also it depends on the car a small engined learner car may well only stay with each owner a year, long enough to gain some experience and a years NCB before moving to something they want, or a scratch an itch car, an M3, a cabriolet etc the sort of thing you aspire to achieve then realise the reality isn't the same as your vision of ownership, an M3 isn't needed most of your driving is city driving stop start, or with the cabriolet, it ends up cold and damp in the 10 none summer months.
^^^^^ well there you go....
To me it makes no difference, some people just don't keep cars that long, especially cars which are performance orientated.
Just bought a tuscan, 6 previous owners doesn't bother me as its just had a full 3 year warrenty rebuild, new suspension front and rear, visibly new brake discs and pads and a few other random parts.
A mate just got a 599 and its 3 years old and hes the 3rd or possibly even 4th owner....
To me it makes no difference, some people just don't keep cars that long, especially cars which are performance orientated.
Just bought a tuscan, 6 previous owners doesn't bother me as its just had a full 3 year warrenty rebuild, new suspension front and rear, visibly new brake discs and pads and a few other random parts.
A mate just got a 599 and its 3 years old and hes the 3rd or possibly even 4th owner....
I just sold my Porsche Carrera 4S Cab back to a Porsche dealer. It was a September 2006 registration and I was the fourth owner. Obviously they will be selling to the next owner as the fifth person on the V5 - so probably five owners in less than five years, no problem as long as it has been looked after.
I know this is a bit of a regurgitation but I went looking for a new car and came across a Volvo S40 2.0 Sport (I was actually looking for something else). Long story short, Hendy Ford chappie says 'Oh, this one's just come in' so I took it for a spin. Not bad, superb condition inside and out. Metallic black etc etc etc blah blah. Only 52k mileage on an 05 plate. £6k. Then the whammy: 5 registered keepers and one registration change. Some wise sod also told me that Volvos are notoriously expansive to maintain and tend to go phut if not serviced every 10k.
Any pistonheads got any experience of these things?
Any pistonheads got any experience of these things?
when i got my old merc (1994 year), i was the 11th owner.
Alot of owners i thought, but I always go on condition of the car and price, so got it - and the sterring wheel wasn't even sticky!
My dad's hpi/car buyer mate did some investigation after i'd had the car for 6 months (nothing had gone wrong) , and we found out I was actually the forth owner.
Car had be re-registered 6 times from
owner 2 -> company 1 -> owner 2 -> company 1 -> owner 2 -> company 1 -> owner 3
this was due to some sort of number plate/tax business trick.
The point is, to not always assume N owners actually means it has had N owners.
Alot of owners i thought, but I always go on condition of the car and price, so got it - and the sterring wheel wasn't even sticky!
My dad's hpi/car buyer mate did some investigation after i'd had the car for 6 months (nothing had gone wrong) , and we found out I was actually the forth owner.
Car had be re-registered 6 times from
owner 2 -> company 1 -> owner 2 -> company 1 -> owner 2 -> company 1 -> owner 3
this was due to some sort of number plate/tax business trick.
The point is, to not always assume N owners actually means it has had N owners.
I think that a (growing) number of people buy a 3/4 year old car from a garage, run it for a year or so until it needs a service, and then sell it (as they don't want to foot the bill for a service) - particularly on more desireable cars that'll hurt the wallet when it comes to maintenance. This can have benefits though, as if it's part ex'd at another garage, the car may receive its service/any maintenance work before it's put on the forecourt again.
That said, my '82 Mini does have quite a few former keepers - it's been restored in the past few years so I'm not overly bothered, also as I'm doing a lot of restoration and welding on it myself (and chucking a VTEC in for good measure).
That said, my '82 Mini does have quite a few former keepers - it's been restored in the past few years so I'm not overly bothered, also as I'm doing a lot of restoration and welding on it myself (and chucking a VTEC in for good measure).
Sounds reasonable. I guess I'm suspicious though. Several of owner reviews on the same model have been very negative, uncannily having bought them at roughly the same mileage and with the reg year as the one I looked at. Mainly involving a whole host of electrical and clutch problems.
I took the hint and asked the salesman for details on the MOT and service history. Bless him he doesn't sound too keen as it's all a bit too much trouble.
Spinning around in a Seat Leon later on so it will be interesting to compare.
I took the hint and asked the salesman for details on the MOT and service history. Bless him he doesn't sound too keen as it's all a bit too much trouble.
Spinning around in a Seat Leon later on so it will be interesting to compare.
I had a car that had 9 owners, I found that there was a coolant leak on the little block that connects to the turbo. The problem was the 'service manual' said to fix it the engine had to come out.
I knew this had to be b
ks, it was 2 bolts holding a block onto the turbo. It was a pain in the ass to get to for sure.
I assumed this is the reason for it being passed around. I should have noticed, as the coolant didn't smell that coolantly when I looked over it, but an easy mistake to make.
In the end after arguing the toss they managed to quote me 2 hours work, it took about 3 1/2 but its all sorted with no engine out. The pipe to fix was £60.
I knew this had to be b
ks, it was 2 bolts holding a block onto the turbo. It was a pain in the ass to get to for sure.I assumed this is the reason for it being passed around. I should have noticed, as the coolant didn't smell that coolantly when I looked over it, but an easy mistake to make.
In the end after arguing the toss they managed to quote me 2 hours work, it took about 3 1/2 but its all sorted with no engine out. The pipe to fix was £60.
I know what everyone is saying about X bad owners etc but as long as the service stacks up to the condition and the miles then your gut should tell you to walk away or not. If it was a delicate italian car you may worry a bit more but its a rock solid german with only one word being an issue (vanos) and thats not really the issue people make out.
Try finding a low owner sports car?? Not impossible but its very difficult.
It took me 12 months to find a Z3M with one owner and 37k on the clock - wife wrote it off within a month.
Try finding a low owner sports car?? Not impossible but its very difficult.
It took me 12 months to find a Z3M with one owner and 37k on the clock - wife wrote it off within a month.
It could have one former owner who treat it badly or several owners who all looked after it like it was their pride and joy. I'd say sports cars and 'special' models tend to get changed more frequently than cheap family hacks. Most Elises I've looked at had several owners for example but I'd be more concerned about the service history, receipts, etc.
A lot of people buy an aspirational car and then the reality of cost of ownership hits and they sell on after a year or so.
A lot of people buy an aspirational car and then the reality of cost of ownership hits and they sell on after a year or so.
Edited by toon10 on Wednesday 14th March 08:21
my 12 year old car has had 2 owners, the last bought it for a run around and spent as little as possible in 30 months ownership!
Luckily I know these cars inside out and took a chance on the few issues being minor (the oil pump failed due to wrong/missed oil change and needed some major work to swap over! my mechainic is £10 an hour, so it wasn't hugely expensive)
Luckily I know these cars inside out and took a chance on the few issues being minor (the oil pump failed due to wrong/missed oil change and needed some major work to swap over! my mechainic is £10 an hour, so it wasn't hugely expensive)
Been reading this thread with interest. Number of owner/keepers was something that has always bothered me until my latest bike purchase.
First registered in 2003 I noticed it had a surprising six previous registered keepers, each on average doing a little over 1200 miles. Its condition was immaculate - even by my high standards so that little number paled into insignificance.
I'm still enjoying every minute on it... and no expensive surprises
I am considering writing to the DVLA requesting details of former keepers purely out of personal interest and perhaps to advise a new keeper if i ever sell it.
Is this a good enough reason for them to grant me access to the information?
First registered in 2003 I noticed it had a surprising six previous registered keepers, each on average doing a little over 1200 miles. Its condition was immaculate - even by my high standards so that little number paled into insignificance.
I'm still enjoying every minute on it... and no expensive surprises
I am considering writing to the DVLA requesting details of former keepers purely out of personal interest and perhaps to advise a new keeper if i ever sell it.
Is this a good enough reason for them to grant me access to the information?
Edited by rich_b on Tuesday 13th March 17:14
sebhaque said:
I think that a (growing) number of people buy a 3/4 year old car from a garage, run it for a year or so until it needs a service, and then sell it (as they don't want to foot the bill for a service) - particularly on more desireable cars that'll hurt the wallet when it comes to maintenance. This can have benefits though, as if it's part ex'd at another garage, the car may receive its service/any maintenance work before it's put on the forecourt again.
That said, my '82 Mini does have quite a few former keepers - it's been restored in the past few years so I'm not overly bothered, also as I'm doing a lot of restoration and welding on it myself (and chucking a VTEC in for good measure).
Hehe im the 11th owner of my 1990 Mini!That said, my '82 Mini does have quite a few former keepers - it's been restored in the past few years so I'm not overly bothered, also as I'm doing a lot of restoration and welding on it myself (and chucking a VTEC in for good measure).
I'm going to throw a wild card in here. When you buy a car, especially something mildly exotic, you tend to ask your mechanic to take a look at it and say "do what needs doing". My money would be on more owners equalling more jobs getting done. The problem can be that paperwork doesn't get passed on, so I guess that means my theory is unprovable in many cases!
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff