RE: Driven: BMW 1 Series M Coupé

[pilchardthecat]

Dagnut said:

pilchardthecat said:

Dagnut said:

Have to agree with inkiboo, it's the same st every time a car is released. Just accept that cars are heavier now and people who want lightweight specials are in the minority. Lexus couldn't even get the £350,000 LFA under 1500kg. Mainstream lightweight cars are gone, thing of the past

It's not the weight for me, it's the crappy engine.

But it's the same thing with emissions, BMW's hands are tied, the car HAS to meet certain standards or it won't be sold.
OK we all know in reality this car won't be any more economical and the testing is biased but again BMW's hands are tied. BMW IMO held on to the N/A approach as long as possible, You all act like M engineers are turning there back on you, do you honestly think that guys who created the E46 CSl aren't complaining themselves at these regulations? These are the sh!tty times we live in to produce a high volume performance car.

No they aren't and no it doesn't. The manufacturers have eco st to adhere to across the range.

If the EU are preventing BMW from making a high-revving 6 pot like the e46 M3 without taking on these enormous compromises, how come the world is still full of Porsches and Ferarris and v8 supercharged Jaguars and AMGs and all the rest?

I'm sure that some of the engineers are complaining, but as far as an individual model is concerned the compromise is because of a corporate direction, not a regulatory one

Edited by pilchardthecat on Tuesday 12th October 14:45

[J4CKO]

I bet its a cheeky remap away from being faster than an M3.

[chippy17]

Mermaid said:

chippy17 said:

inkiboo said:

Oh god I am so massively bored with everyone on PH going on about weight. If you want a car with a decent interior, good sound isolation and enhanced safety equipment then it is going to weigh more than the previous generation car.

If you don't want all that, buy a Lotus Elise.

Porsche seem to manage it...why can't BMW

this car should weigh 1350-1400 not 1500

So how much does a small run 2 seater £120k 997GT3RS weigh? I thought it was about 1375kg*. And AFAIK the 997 GT2RS weighs the same despite carbon fibre bonnet etc...

As with people, it's not at all easy to lose weight.

*adjustable carbon fibre wing, a plastic engine cover, and a lightweight plastic rear window

Edited by Mermaid on Tuesday 12th October 13:23

Cayman? Boxster?

[Dagnut]

pilchardthecat said:

Dagnut said:

pilchardthecat said:

Dagnut said:

Have to agree with inkiboo, it's the same st every time a car is released. Just accept that cars are heavier now and people who want lightweight specials are in the minority. Lexus couldn't even get the £350,000 LFA under 1500kg. Mainstream lightweight cars are gone, thing of the past

It's not the weight for me, it's the crappy engine.

But it's the same thing with emissions, BMW's hands are tied, the car HAS to meet certain standards or it won't be sold.
OK we all know in reality this car won't be any more economical and the testing is biased but again BMW's hands are tied. BMW IMO held on to the N/A approach as long as possible, You all act like M engineers are turning there back on you, do you honestly think that guys who created the E46 CSl aren't complaining themselves at these regulations? These are the sh!tty times we live in to produce a high volume performance car.

No they aren't and no it doesn't. The manufacturers have eco st to adhere to across the range.

If they EU are preventing BMW from making a high-revving 6 pot like the e46 M3 without taking on these enormous compromises, how come the world is still full of Porsches and Ferarris and v8 supercharged Jaguars and AMGs and all the rest?

I'm sure that some of the engineers are complaining, but as fas as an individual model is concerned the compromise is because of a corporate direction, not a regulatory one

I mean there hands are tied in the sense that its a high volume 1 series.People who go to buy the 1 series, be an M car or not, will be looking at Co2 emission, for obvious tax reasons etc. Can you honestly see BMW going to market with high CO2 figures in this car? was anyone really expecting an updated S54 for this car?

[pilchardthecat]

Dagnut said:

pilchardthecat said:

Dagnut said:

pilchardthecat said:

Dagnut said:

Have to agree with inkiboo, it's the same st every time a car is released. Just accept that cars are heavier now and people who want lightweight specials are in the minority. Lexus couldn't even get the £350,000 LFA under 1500kg. Mainstream lightweight cars are gone, thing of the past

It's not the weight for me, it's the crappy engine.

But it's the same thing with emissions, BMW's hands are tied, the car HAS to meet certain standards or it won't be sold.
OK we all know in reality this car won't be any more economical and the testing is biased but again BMW's hands are tied. BMW IMO held on to the N/A approach as long as possible, You all act like M engineers are turning there back on you, do you honestly think that guys who created the E46 CSl aren't complaining themselves at these regulations? These are the sh!tty times we live in to produce a high volume performance car.

No they aren't and no it doesn't. The manufacturers have eco st to adhere to across the range.

If they EU are preventing BMW from making a high-revving 6 pot like the e46 M3 without taking on these enormous compromises, how come the world is still full of Porsches and Ferarris and v8 supercharged Jaguars and AMGs and all the rest?

I'm sure that some of the engineers are complaining, but as fas as an individual model is concerned the compromise is because of a corporate direction, not a regulatory one

I mean there hands are tied in the sense that its a high volume 1 series.People who go to buy the 1 series, be an M car or not, will be looking at Co2 emission, for obvious tax reasons etc. Can you honestly see BMW going to market with high CO2 figures in this car? was anyone really expecting an updated S54 for this car?

Can't see many people having one of these on a company car scheme.

What will it be, 28mpg? It could have been 26mpg and NA and it would have been twice the car.

[kambites]

bmthnick1981 said:

Agree the market seems not be there - perhaps more 'M cars' are now bought by people who just want the badge rather than the experience. Which is a shame.

I think this is a natural progression for the M division. I have nothing against BMW for producing a car that the market clearly wants - they're a business not a charity. I just think it's a shame that one of the last companies who actually tried to produce drivers' cars has given up, even if I do accept that it was entirely the right thing for them to do from a commercial prospective.

I think the days of (relatively) affordable drivers' cars from mainstream manufacturers are over. That's not really BMW's fault, they're just the messenger.

Edited by kambites on Tuesday 12th October 15:07

[Fittster]

J4CKO said:

I bet its a cheeky remap away from being faster than an M3.

And if you also remap the M3?

[Plotloss]

Fittster said:

J4CKO said:

I bet its a cheeky remap away from being faster than an M3.

And if you also remap the M3?

It would make little difference, as the M3 is normally aspirated.

[geoffracing]

A very thick-looking car.
No elegance.
Not even fast-looking.
Rather dull in fact.
The front of (all) the Series 1 is ugly.

I only like the quadruple exhausts! And probably the engine...

I can't believe even Citroen is starting to make more tempting cars!

[chippy17]

inkiboo said:

chippy17 said:

Porsche seem to manage it...why can't BMW

this car should weigh 1350-1400 not 1500

I'm sorry but you are talking absolute nonsense.

Cayman - 1,340 kg
Boxster - 1,420 kg!!!!!!!!!!!!

And you want a car that can take 4 adults to weight LESS than a Boxster that can only take 2?

You are everything that is wrong with PH. Keyboard warriors who sit there crying "OH NOE, IT'S TOO HEAVY I WON'T BUY IT" and then post weight figures showing you know NOTHING.

Don't buy it then, BMW nor I care.

your last sentence is one of my favourites basically you are saying 'well if you don't like it don't comment' what a load of rubbish,

if you don't care then don't reply. BMW may care if all their customers thought this way...

that is why I put a question mark by both these cars as I did not know for sure

hardly the biggest car in the world though is it

I think you need to calm down I was merely asking a question, what is wrong with talking about weight, I am unaware of lots of people talking about it but then again i do not read every post

you are putting words into my mouth, never said I wouldn't buy it, never said I didn't like it

Edited by chippy17 on Tuesday 12th October 15:14

[J4CKO]

Fittster said:

J4CKO said:

I bet its a cheeky remap away from being faster than an M3.

And if you also remap the M3?

Damn you got me

No, if this a Twin Turbo versus the current M3's N/A V8, generally in my experience anything with turbo's tends to
respond better to a remap and generally on N/A cars it
makes little difference, the difference between something feeling perceptibly and definitely quicker to having to try and
decide whether it feels any difference.


So 350 bhp plays 420 bhp and 1500 kilos play 1600 ish kilos as standard.

Anyone know what the respective engines will remap to, suppose it depends whether the new M1's engin is just a remapped version of the 335 unit with some of the remap potential used up or a unit with more capability via different turbos and internals to support additional boost, the 335i remaps to 360/370 bhp, not sure about the E90 M3, say another 20 bhp ?

[chippy17]

inkiboo said:

Basic summary chippy my old fruit is that you call out BMW and suggest Porsche can produce light weight models and then name two Porsche models that are pretty much the same weight, given the lack of rear seats, as the BMW.

well 1340/1420 is hardly the same as over 1500 is it? that at least one fat man if not several

what would you compare it to?

must admit I thought the Cayman had rear seats

Edited by chippy17 on Tuesday 12th October 15:21

I am being an idiot on the Cayman as I guess not likely to have rear seats due to where the engine is, sorry for idiocy

Edited by chippy17 on Tuesday 12th October 15:26

[pilchardthecat]

chippy17 said:

inkiboo said:

Basic summary chippy my old fruit is that you call out BMW and suggest Porsche can produce light weight models and then name two Porsche models that are pretty much the same weight, given the lack of rear seats, as the BMW.

what would you compare it to?

must admit I thought the Cayman had rear seats

The Boxster is pretty much the same weight as the old Z4M Roadster

No idea what the new Z4 weighs.

[chippy17]

pilchardthecat said:

chippy17 said:

inkiboo said:

Basic summary chippy my old fruit is that you call out BMW and suggest Porsche can produce light weight models and then name two Porsche models that are pretty much the same weight, given the lack of rear seats, as the BMW.

what would you compare it to?

must admit I thought the Cayman had rear seats

The Boxster is pretty much the same weight as the old Z4M Roadster

No idea what the new Z4 weighs.

about 1600 iirc

[pilchardthecat]

chippy17 said:

pilchardthecat said:

chippy17 said:

inkiboo said:

Basic summary chippy my old fruit is that you call out BMW and suggest Porsche can produce light weight models and then name two Porsche models that are pretty much the same weight, given the lack of rear seats, as the BMW.

what would you compare it to?

must admit I thought the Cayman had rear seats

The Boxster is pretty much the same weight as the old Z4M Roadster

No idea what the new Z4 weighs.

about 1600 iirc

Google says it's 1525

[kambites]

pilchardthecat said:

Google says it's 1525

Is the new Z4 based on the 1-series or 3-series or neither?

[otolith]

kambites said:

I just think it's a shame that one of the last companies who actually tried to produce drivers' cars has given up, even if I do accept that it was entirely the right thing for them to do from a commercial prospective.

Completely agree - and with the people who said that BMW's engineers probably don't like it much either.

kambites said:

I think the days of (relatively) affordable drivers' cars from mainstream manufacturers are over.

That is definitely the way the wind has been blowing for a while. The ability to spin decent driver's machines off mainstream platforms has been compromised by demand in the mainstream market for bigger, safer, taller, more comfortable cars which aim to minimise driver involvement, and the bland downsized, down-cylindered, down-speeded blown engines that the need to haul that weight around and meet environmental pressures force. I don't think journalists moaning about anything that needs revs helps there either.

Chink of light is that the high water mark of lard may have been reached, with an increasing focus amongst manufacturers on making their next models lighter than the cars they replace.

The other hope is that if mainstream spin-offs get crap enough, the enthusiasts will stop buying them and breathe some life into the market for real sports cars instead.

[chippy17]

pilchardthecat said:

chippy17 said:

pilchardthecat said:

chippy17 said:

inkiboo said:

Basic summary chippy my old fruit is that you call out BMW and suggest Porsche can produce light weight models and then name two Porsche models that are pretty much the same weight, given the lack of rear seats, as the BMW.

what would you compare it to?

must admit I thought the Cayman had rear seats

The Boxster is pretty much the same weight as the old Z4M Roadster

No idea what the new Z4 weighs.

about 1600 iirc

Google says it's 1525

I would guess depends on what model? I just remember Evo having a right moan about the large weight of new Z4 and that figure, they put some of it down to metal roof I think

[Dagnut]

pilchardthecat said:

Dagnut said:

pilchardthecat said:

Dagnut said:

pilchardthecat said:

Dagnut said:

Have to agree with inkiboo, it's the same st every time a car is released. Just accept that cars are heavier now and people who want lightweight specials are in the minority. Lexus couldn't even get the £350,000 LFA under 1500kg. Mainstream lightweight cars are gone, thing of the past

It's not the weight for me, it's the crappy engine.

But it's the same thing with emissions, BMW's hands are tied, the car HAS to meet certain standards or it won't be sold.
OK we all know in reality this car won't be any more economical and the testing is biased but again BMW's hands are tied. BMW IMO held on to the N/A approach as long as possible, You all act like M engineers are turning there back on you, do you honestly think that guys who created the E46 CSl aren't complaining themselves at these regulations? These are the sh!tty times we live in to produce a high volume performance car.

No they aren't and no it doesn't. The manufacturers have eco st to adhere to across the range.

If they EU are preventing BMW from making a high-revving 6 pot like the e46 M3 without taking on these enormous compromises, how come the world is still full of Porsches and Ferarris and v8 supercharged Jaguars and AMGs and all the rest?

I'm sure that some of the engineers are complaining, but as fas as an individual model is concerned the compromise is because of a corporate direction, not a regulatory one

I mean there hands are tied in the sense that its a high volume 1 series.People who go to buy the 1 series, be an M car or not, will be looking at Co2 emission, for obvious tax reasons etc. Can you honestly see BMW going to market with high CO2 figures in this car? was anyone really expecting an updated S54 for this car?

Can't see many people having one of these on a company car scheme.

What will it be, 28mpg? It could have been 26mpg and NA and it would have been twice the car.

Not just the company car scheme in the UK, through out Europe cars are taxed on their C02 output.

[pilchardthecat]

Dagnut said:

pilchardthecat said:

Dagnut said:

pilchardthecat said:

Dagnut said:

pilchardthecat said:

Dagnut said:

Have to agree with inkiboo, it's the same st every time a car is released. Just accept that cars are heavier now and people who want lightweight specials are in the minority. Lexus couldn't even get the £350,000 LFA under 1500kg. Mainstream lightweight cars are gone, thing of the past

It's not the weight for me, it's the crappy engine.

But it's the same thing with emissions, BMW's hands are tied, the car HAS to meet certain standards or it won't be sold.
OK we all know in reality this car won't be any more economical and the testing is biased but again BMW's hands are tied. BMW IMO held on to the N/A approach as long as possible, You all act like M engineers are turning there back on you, do you honestly think that guys who created the E46 CSl aren't complaining themselves at these regulations? These are the sh!tty times we live in to produce a high volume performance car.

No they aren't and no it doesn't. The manufacturers have eco st to adhere to across the range.

If they EU are preventing BMW from making a high-revving 6 pot like the e46 M3 without taking on these enormous compromises, how come the world is still full of Porsches and Ferarris and v8 supercharged Jaguars and AMGs and all the rest?

I'm sure that some of the engineers are complaining, but as fas as an individual model is concerned the compromise is because of a corporate direction, not a regulatory one

I mean there hands are tied in the sense that its a high volume 1 series.People who go to buy the 1 series, be an M car or not, will be looking at Co2 emission, for obvious tax reasons etc. Can you honestly see BMW going to market with high CO2 figures in this car? was anyone really expecting an updated S54 for this car?

Can't see many people having one of these on a company car scheme.

What will it be, 28mpg? It could have been 26mpg and NA and it would have been twice the car.

Not just the company car scheme in the UK, through out Europe cars are taxed on their C02 output.

Which might be 5% maybe 10% better because of this enormous car-ruining compromise.