RE: PH Comparo: BMW M6 vs Nissan GT-R
Discussion
Olf said:
Although I'd imagine the extra weight of the gold medallions worn by the GTR driver would swing it towards the M6.
What about the two thirteen-year-old white girls in the passenger seat of the M6 and the wraps of smack under the floor mat (and the 200kg of fake 22" AC Schnitzers)?Trommel said:
Olf said:
Although I'd imagine the extra weight of the gold medallions worn by the GTR driver would swing it towards the M6.
What about the two thirteen-year-old white girls in the passenger seat of the M6 and the wraps of smack under the floor mat (and the 200kg of fake 22" AC Schnitzers)?Trommel said:
Olf said:
Although I'd imagine the extra weight of the gold medallions worn by the GTR driver would swing it towards the M6.
What about the two thirteen-year-old white girls in the passenger seat of the M6 and the wraps of smack under the floor mat (and the 200kg of fake 22" AC Schnitzers)?Trommel said:
Olf said:
Although I'd imagine the extra weight of the gold medallions worn by the GTR driver would swing it towards the M6.
What about the two thirteen-year-old white girls in the passenger seat of the M6 and the wraps of smack under the floor mat (and the 200kg of fake 22" AC Schnitzers)?It does your claimed objectivity no good whatsoever.
Presumably you run both cars and have done for some time, rather than the hackist's ususal five minutes exposure...
Fwiw, I have profound respect and no small degree of lust for the GT-R; you'd have to be a chundering imbecile not to appreciate the profound vfm it represents and brand new, ito last nugget of bang/$ it may well whisker it - as it clearly does against much of the established supercar heirarchy.
What drives me nuts (as would any passionate loon with some of the requisite, pertinent experience in any debate in such matters) is the typical, casual dismissal of a car by antagonists either with an axe to grind or reliance on little but the crutch of ignorance and/or minimal time at the helm (of either/both.)
derestrictor said:
anything fast said:
...when it comes to performance the nissan is in a totaly different league..this thing will run rings round the heavier M6 on a track and on the street...this is THE supercar bargain and hats off to the lucky people who own one..
Yes, utter garbage.Like most things connected with the M6, prejudice rooted firmly in ignorance.
Do you have the remotest idea how genuinely rapid and polished of poise the M6 is?
Again, taking a sporting GT on a racing track; I mean, why?
Btw, the fat Kraut is a tad lighter than the Sumorai.
It'd have to be a GT-R simply because the depreciation of the M6 is truly horrific.
That £90k M6 will have lost approx £55 - £60k in two years which would be nearly enough to buy a new GT-R.
Therefore if money was no option, yes I'd consider an M car - not the 6 but the M5.
I wonder what the running costs of the two cars would be? I can't imagine you'll get much change from £2k for an Inspection 1 at BMW..... I've got no idea what Datsun would charge?
That £90k M6 will have lost approx £55 - £60k in two years which would be nearly enough to buy a new GT-R.
Therefore if money was no option, yes I'd consider an M car - not the 6 but the M5.
I wonder what the running costs of the two cars would be? I can't imagine you'll get much change from £2k for an Inspection 1 at BMW..... I've got no idea what Datsun would charge?
Edited by motor mad on Wednesday 20th October 08:02
Many far less powerful awd motors will out-haul a powerful rwd alternative when a-snaking in the wet.
Without limiters, the M6 outruns a GT-R; please stop chanting otherwise but the on road differences ito give and take on a dry surface are minor.
The closer to track conditions things become, then in average hands, the GT-R goes harder and can punch a bit faster but as I keep implying, the GT-R is too heavy to call the track its home.
It is not in the M6's demeanour to play against the urban heros who insist on 100 mph sprints, between the lights, through 30, 40 and speed camerea infested 50 zones.
But if you insist, it can and will and as I've said, you need something a damn sight more special than a GT-R to give it the drop.
This is only based on road based comparisons against provincial GT-Rs and four years discovering the (media) surpressed brilliance of the M6.
It is by far and away the most unbelievable performance car for c£30k at tody's prices.
Car spotters and armchair enthusiasts are spoilt by an oversupply of remarkable, heavy hitting machines, these days but reality v. reliance on testimonial snippetudes sometimes equate to diverging outcomes.
Without limiters, the M6 outruns a GT-R; please stop chanting otherwise but the on road differences ito give and take on a dry surface are minor.
The closer to track conditions things become, then in average hands, the GT-R goes harder and can punch a bit faster but as I keep implying, the GT-R is too heavy to call the track its home.
It is not in the M6's demeanour to play against the urban heros who insist on 100 mph sprints, between the lights, through 30, 40 and speed camerea infested 50 zones.
But if you insist, it can and will and as I've said, you need something a damn sight more special than a GT-R to give it the drop.
This is only based on road based comparisons against provincial GT-Rs and four years discovering the (media) surpressed brilliance of the M6.
It is by far and away the most unbelievable performance car for c£30k at tody's prices.
Car spotters and armchair enthusiasts are spoilt by an oversupply of remarkable, heavy hitting machines, these days but reality v. reliance on testimonial snippetudes sometimes equate to diverging outcomes.
It comes down to a choice of which is the best-looking.
Oh no, that didn't work did it?
If I had partial eyesight but could still drive, I think I like "the idea" of the M6 better but would need a sick bag to look at both.
Unless it really is the case that even when you buy a car you don't like, you grow to like it anyway.
Oh no, that didn't work did it?
If I had partial eyesight but could still drive, I think I like "the idea" of the M6 better but would need a sick bag to look at both.
Unless it really is the case that even when you buy a car you don't like, you grow to like it anyway.
Erm...who take 2000Kgs 4 seat Uber Coupes on track?
And if so...er...why?
And lastly for those discussing "cross country pace", a little humbling. It is very very hard in the UK to explore *serious* cross country pace on the public road, with the public in the same vicinity as you. I have a section of road in Sussex, essentially between Lewes and Newhaven which I have used as a benchmark to punch a variety of machinery down, from humble Mx5s to Sags and 911 turbos. On any given day the difference between those timed runs is usually only a few seconds...road conditions and traffic make it so.
There is another section of road up in Scotland Ive enjoyed blatting across. It was a seriously quick road and I was in the Sag but I still backed off and didnt want to go faster...even though I could add another 20-30mph on what I was doing...because it was a public road, there was no gaurantee of what the rest of the public were doing up ahead and it would have been lunacy to go any faster.
Ultimate pace across country therefore is a bit of a fallacy. Claiming a GTR would spank an M6 and leave it is just a silly idea, viable only in the reals of "in-theory", not on the public road itself. Far better to accept they are both extremely quick cars, capable of devouring the public road extremely quickly, but via differing methodologies.
Or of course Im just a wuss for not trying to go as fast as I can on the public road.
And if so...er...why?
And lastly for those discussing "cross country pace", a little humbling. It is very very hard in the UK to explore *serious* cross country pace on the public road, with the public in the same vicinity as you. I have a section of road in Sussex, essentially between Lewes and Newhaven which I have used as a benchmark to punch a variety of machinery down, from humble Mx5s to Sags and 911 turbos. On any given day the difference between those timed runs is usually only a few seconds...road conditions and traffic make it so.
There is another section of road up in Scotland Ive enjoyed blatting across. It was a seriously quick road and I was in the Sag but I still backed off and didnt want to go faster...even though I could add another 20-30mph on what I was doing...because it was a public road, there was no gaurantee of what the rest of the public were doing up ahead and it would have been lunacy to go any faster.
Ultimate pace across country therefore is a bit of a fallacy. Claiming a GTR would spank an M6 and leave it is just a silly idea, viable only in the reals of "in-theory", not on the public road itself. Far better to accept they are both extremely quick cars, capable of devouring the public road extremely quickly, but via differing methodologies.
Or of course Im just a wuss for not trying to go as fast as I can on the public road.
I'd have thought anyone with the constitution to stomach the aesthetic of something styled by the Sticklebrick Association of Regurgitated Americana would have possessed a greater appreciation of the brutally aesthetic; here, when penned in both cases (GT-R/M6) with some degree of original flair.
motor mad said:
It'd have to be a GT-R simply because the depreciation of the M6 is truly horrific.
That £90k M6 will have lost approx £55 - £60k in two years which would be nearly enough to buy a new GT-R.
Exactly. That's why we recommend a used one, and you can't buy a new M6 any more either. That £90k M6 will have lost approx £55 - £60k in two years which would be nearly enough to buy a new GT-R.
As for why track them? Well, we had a spare couple of hours.....
derestrictor said:
anything fast said:
...when it comes to performance the nissan is in a totaly different league..this thing will run rings round the heavier M6 on a track and on the street...this is THE supercar bargain and hats off to the lucky people who own one..
Yes, utter garbage.Like most things connected with the M6, prejudice rooted firmly in ignorance.
Do you have the remotest idea how genuinely rapid and polished of poise the M6 is?
Again, taking a sporting GT on a racing track; I mean, why?
Btw, the fat Kraut is a tad lighter than the Sumorai.
prejudice? dont make me laugh.. i own a BMW.. and IGNORANCE? i think you are ignoring some VITAL FACTS>>
BTW, every source of infomation out there (incuding this article) says an M6 is heavier than GTR..
I have driven my friends M6 several times and have driven one on track day.. its impressive, but it IS a GT car not a focused missile like the GTR. In fact i found the M3 CSL was much much more nimble and would corner at higher speeds..
I have never driven a GTR
but i have driven standard R34 Skyline GTR and even it would leave an M6 for dead in the bends..Also refer to top gear power laps.. the GTR laps in the 1.19's.. they have not taken an M6 round the track, but they did take the identical engined M5 and it lapped some 7 seconds slower than the GTR.. so maybe allow 1 second for the slight weight difference on the M5 and M6.. so how could an M6 keep pace with a GTR on track? simple unless it was a crap driver the M6 would get eaten.
In a drag race the GTR would win up to about 100 mph after that there is little between them...
They are two very different animals the GTR is a no compromise supercar that will out pace many a lambo and ferrari.. the M6 is the probably one of the best GT cars in the world.. but it aint no GTR.. its a fat mans car.. no offense..Chalk and cheese my friend..
Garlick said:
motor mad said:
It'd have to be a GT-R simply because the depreciation of the M6 is truly horrific.
That £90k M6 will have lost approx £55 - £60k in two years which would be nearly enough to buy a new GT-R.
Exactly. That's why we recommend a used one, and you can't buy a new M6 any more either. That £90k M6 will have lost approx £55 - £60k in two years which would be nearly enough to buy a new GT-R.
Therefore if it were my money I'd still rather have the newer car.
Over approx 12 miles of the Nurburgring, the GT-R has lapped at 7mins26-something, while the M6 has lapped in 8mins09 according to this website. That's 12 challenging miles, with two highly skilled drivers at the wheel.
On public roads, the BMW's disadvantage would likely be stretched further for average drivers (like most of us?) with a point to prove. The GT-R's unique selling point is that it has been designed so anyone can drive it very fast without cr*pping their pants. Yes, even 'your Nan', and that's one of the reasons it's so impressive. But she'd still be driving like a maniac.
The BMW's pre-Playstation approach requires just a little more talent/skill/experience/understanding at the outer edges of its 'performance envelope'.
On that mythical cross-country 'open road' with racing drivers at the wheel? See the Nurburgring times above.
And then there's the real world...
On public roads, the BMW's disadvantage would likely be stretched further for average drivers (like most of us?) with a point to prove. The GT-R's unique selling point is that it has been designed so anyone can drive it very fast without cr*pping their pants. Yes, even 'your Nan', and that's one of the reasons it's so impressive. But she'd still be driving like a maniac.
The BMW's pre-Playstation approach requires just a little more talent/skill/experience/understanding at the outer edges of its 'performance envelope'.
On that mythical cross-country 'open road' with racing drivers at the wheel? See the Nurburgring times above.
And then there's the real world...
A standard R34?
I didn't know such things existed.
lies, damn lies and statistics!
'The Twisties?'
Read DJC's pertinent comments.
Does the fact that I once kept a Diablo honest along a Leicestershire B road in an e39 M5 make it the better or faster car? Of course not; the comparison is facile.
I think it was Phil Bennett whose humble, mid 90s Pug saloon, could humiliate in similar fashion but c/o exceptional helmsmanship, to even greater degrees of stark, automotive contrast.
My old Evo VII would embarass almost enything in such scenarios whilst the Ralliart Extreme version more so but once flickety flack turned into The Plains of Glencoe, a car like the M6 would romp away.
The weight issue is a complete non-issue.
As would anything with nuclear cahonies.
I too have driven a matey's very nicely Nismoed '34 and it was undoubtedly impressive but far closer in delivery to a 911 Turbo than the n/a glory of Der Gros Sechs; your stint at the wheel of your chum's car is great but still represents minimal exposure; have you ever driven it back to back with something properly raw, in the dry, over a snaking B with all the aids defeated, at lowish speeds with brutal intent?
I do it all the time and my frame of comparison is a weightless Catertin with 200 bhp; the M6 is ridiculously close as an extrapolated, handling repertoire whereas the X50 I use for all out bombing (replete with KW, Sachs and geo'd for evading Spitfires flying out of the sun) is a different proposition - phenomenal but designed for a digital, automotive mugging - whereas the M6 can be set up to impart (despite all the crap ascribed) a more analogue execution.
The GT-R has evolved from its illustrious forbear and I love it but it is a a very scientific endeavour; again, the comparison with the M6 is valid re them being 2+2 uber coups but poorly judged when you get to the mindsets behind either.
These are both, phenomenal motors; I think we should all bear this in mind.
I didn't know such things existed.
lies, damn lies and statistics!
'The Twisties?'
Read DJC's pertinent comments.
Does the fact that I once kept a Diablo honest along a Leicestershire B road in an e39 M5 make it the better or faster car? Of course not; the comparison is facile.
I think it was Phil Bennett whose humble, mid 90s Pug saloon, could humiliate in similar fashion but c/o exceptional helmsmanship, to even greater degrees of stark, automotive contrast.
My old Evo VII would embarass almost enything in such scenarios whilst the Ralliart Extreme version more so but once flickety flack turned into The Plains of Glencoe, a car like the M6 would romp away.
The weight issue is a complete non-issue.
As would anything with nuclear cahonies.
I too have driven a matey's very nicely Nismoed '34 and it was undoubtedly impressive but far closer in delivery to a 911 Turbo than the n/a glory of Der Gros Sechs; your stint at the wheel of your chum's car is great but still represents minimal exposure; have you ever driven it back to back with something properly raw, in the dry, over a snaking B with all the aids defeated, at lowish speeds with brutal intent?
I do it all the time and my frame of comparison is a weightless Catertin with 200 bhp; the M6 is ridiculously close as an extrapolated, handling repertoire whereas the X50 I use for all out bombing (replete with KW, Sachs and geo'd for evading Spitfires flying out of the sun) is a different proposition - phenomenal but designed for a digital, automotive mugging - whereas the M6 can be set up to impart (despite all the crap ascribed) a more analogue execution.
The GT-R has evolved from its illustrious forbear and I love it but it is a a very scientific endeavour; again, the comparison with the M6 is valid re them being 2+2 uber coups but poorly judged when you get to the mindsets behind either.
These are both, phenomenal motors; I think we should all bear this in mind.
Great article chaps, these types of 'Comparo' could run on and on for almost every new car launch on PH!
Anyhoo, for my money, the new GT-R at £70k would fail against this:
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/1933680.htm
Less than 4000 miles, so basically brand new. All it's missing is a Warranty, which you could get from Porsche and still be under the price of the Nissan after some negotiation.
edit: Or there's this one:
http://ucl.porsche.de/ucl/plsql/uk/clients.show_ca...
Porsche Dealer, comes with 2yr warranty, only 14k miles.
No contest in my book...
Anyhoo, for my money, the new GT-R at £70k would fail against this:
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/1933680.htm
Less than 4000 miles, so basically brand new. All it's missing is a Warranty, which you could get from Porsche and still be under the price of the Nissan after some negotiation.
edit: Or there's this one:
http://ucl.porsche.de/ucl/plsql/uk/clients.show_ca...
Porsche Dealer, comes with 2yr warranty, only 14k miles.
No contest in my book...
Edited by Beefmeister on Wednesday 20th October 10:58
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