RE: Driven: Bugatti Veyron Super Sport

[Patrick Bateman]

Steve Sutcliffe was rather fond, his review finished with something like 'the best car in the world, period.'

[Dagnut]

KC358 said:

ZeeTacoe said:

KC358 said:

Blue Meanie said:

CarbonM5 said:

The Veyron is like Concorde but pointless.

What is pointless about it? What is wrong with having a car like the Veyron? What is deemed worthwhile in your view?

It is a 1 trick pony. 267mph is an achievement but I like my cars to do more than that.
The Concorde that CarbonM5 brought up is a great way to describe it.
The Veyron is like a Concorde as opposed to a F-16.
The fact that the Concorde can go Mach 1 is an impressive achievement. But that is all it can do. The F-16 can also do Mach 1, but on top of that it can pull massive g's in cornering and high speed acceleration.
In a top speed run the Concorde could nearly hang with the F-16, but set up a Red Bull Air Race World Series type course and the Concorde will be trash.
Not only will the F-16 be quicker but light/nimble feeling will make it a blast. The Concorde will be heavy and cumbersome, not very fun.
The Concorde may have a little more luxuries, but the F-16 is more focused on speed, handling, and fun, yet still docile and comfortable enough to take on a Sunday cruise.

Except Concorde did mach 2.

KC358 said:

Ehra Lessein is perfectly flat and smooth. In 2009 they improved the Aero's aero so it is now 5% more stable.

Ah well I just raised the awesome factor of the Veyron by 10% so it is better.

Good job looking into the details of the planes so deeply. For your information the F-16 can ALSO go over Mach 2.

Let me simplify it for you.
There are 2 cars. Both of them top out at 265mph.
Car A has a "luxury" interior, it has brushed aluminum dash and leather wrapped everything. Car B has a "sport" interior, filled with light weight materials like carbon fiber and Alcantara. Despite the different style interiors they are equally comfortable, both have an equal stereo and other luxuries.
Car A does the quarter mile in 10.3 seconds. Car B does it in 9.9 seconds.
Car A pulls 0.93g on the skidpad. Car B pulls 1.05g.
Car B laps the average track 10 seconds faster than car A.
Car B is light and feels nimble and flickable in the corners. Car A is heavy and feels cumbersome.

What car would you rather have?

you have absolutely no evidence that the aero laps "10 seconds" quicker than the supersport....your making your self look foolish now

[AreOut]

callyman said:

"Even if you're lucky enough to be employed to drive a Formula One car every other weekend between March and November, the Veyron SS can, in its way, deliver an even bigger burst of acceleration where it counts."

Where exactley? 200-250 mph? like that would happen on a regular basis.
Any F1 car from the last 10 years would demolish the performance and braking capabilities of it.
An F1 car is circa 1500 BHP/tonne and can from standstill reach 100 mph and return to zero mph in around 4 seconds.

Yeah that's what I have noticed too, otherwise great article about great car, very inspiring.

zakelwe said:

I think the interior looks better on this version, the old one was a bit bling with the shiny centre console in aluminium, now it is darker and contrasts the light coloured leather seats. You can also have toned down colours for the exterior as well.

It might not be the ultimate driving device but it does what the owners want, speed but with safety and not hanging them out to dry.

Andy

Completely agree.

Dagnut said:

Not only is top gear a load of boll0x but Steve also drove the F1 gtr(with the shortened gearbox) not to long ago for Autocar, he described the acceleration in that as savage..... but he's calling the supersport the best car in the world - it's good enough for me.

He's calling so it's only his subjective impression If you drove that and maybach you would maybe like maybach more, some cars are totally different you know

E21_Ross said:

it's bloody quick. but it's not as quick as an F1 car to 186. when geared for somewhere like monza, they'll still be 3-4 seconds quicker than this to 186. although i'll agree, past that, they're slower. F1 cars are what, 800bhp but weigh less than 1/3 of this car....?

i'd still take a mclaren F1 thanks

They are still quicker, they go to 186 in less than 10 seconds I'm sure..

Mr Dave said:

TimS2000 said:

This and the GTR (sorry) have a lot in common for me - hugely fast, massive amount of technology, and extremely impressive, but at the end of the day they just leave me cold and I don't aspire to owning one (although I'd love to have the money to make that choice )

I really dont know how you can say that after having driven the GTR? Maybe its just me but it got really under my skin and I just wish I wasnt flat out broke at the minute.

Im sure the Veyron is the same.

He probably doesn't like its "AWDness". Bug is AWD too..but GTR is despite being only 100-150 kg lighter much more nimble car.

MintyChris said:

Gives me goosebumps. Id have it just to clean, look at it and dream of doing 270mph.

It's limited to "only" 257 mph. And I doubt that would get anyone of us excited after 3 or 4 top speed runs...(on the tracks where it could be done, which is only Nardo end Ehra Lessien in Europe I guess, at least of known ones)

ticketmaster123 said:

daveco said:

Feck, just checked Wiki apparently the SS can do the quarter mile in 7 seconds!

7 SECONDS??

I hate to be the bubble burster but I am afraid it doesn't. The standard (lol) Veyron does it in 10.2 so I assume that the SS will be around 9.

7..8..9..with factory street tires I would assume 9.7-10, the standard Veyron is already too fast with its 10.2 for those tires that must cope with some rain too, sometimes..

harryowl said:

It's so mind bendingly fast its a whole second quicker round the TG test track than a car built in a shed and designed in the 1950's...

It's not made to be fast around the track but its still among the fastest, which is really impressive. Btw TG is just the show.

traxx said:

I thought it had been established that on the TG race the Veyron only lost because of its crap driver that changed gear too early (or perhaps they just fixed the result to get the one they wanted for their story). Unless the F1 I drove had something seriously wrong with it I just cant see how it could possibly have kept up with the Veyron on a straight line race.

Probably because it has much better power to weight ratio in such hot conditions (I have explained that on another topic). Btw turbo cars give much more feeling about acceleration than NA cars while in reality they arent so much faster. (e.g. same power NA and turbo car, turbo car will "feel" faster, actually it will be but only for a margin)

traxx said:

Personally the SuperSport is far and away "technically" the best roadcar I've ever driven.
BTW I can understand some of the comments regarding the black/orange WSR colours but forget the pictures - in real life the colours work really well

Agree technically its really over the top. Colorwise I would choose all carbon but they want another 300.000 pounds/dollars whatever just for a different color which includes some carbon? No thanks no, even if I was a billionaire I would feel insulted..

ewenm said:

There's a difference between appreciating the Veyron as an incredible feat of engineering and liking it. One is an objective measure, one is subjective.

Spot on.

Murcielago_Boy said:

Someone I know drives his base Veyron everyday. The car can do it no problem. It's not about the car - it's about the wallet....

Get up close to one, and jump inside, and it's as luxurious as Rolls Royce Phantom (in a "sporting" way). The build quality is SENSATIONAL as well - totally built without compromise. The only car that's come close in this latter respect, in my experience, has been the Porsche Carrera GT.
I have to confess somewhat sadly as an owner that Ferrari's are still made like dog-crap. When will they learn to engineer quality?

Anyway, back to the Supersport though - that performance - I mean, it's absolutely ridiculous - it's GOT to be experienced. It's one of those things that makes it worth striving to become a billionaire, to experience. If it lives up the hype, great, if it doesn't, at least you know......

Yeah it's quality is really amazing, F1/Veyron/CGT on one side Italians on the other one..

zakelwe said:

As a diesel Yaris and previous Aygo driver and without having driven either the Veyron or the McLaren F1 I can safely say that the Veyron is the better average road drivers car.

Yes it undoubtedly is...which just makes F1 a better supercar, but not the better car overall(actually there are other things that make it better car overall).

Kong said:

Sure i see what you are saying. I personally love the Ferrari F50, screaming a detuned F1 V12 engine to the redline is an experience you wont get fron a Veyron.

My favourite Ferrari too, enough modern yet enough involving..

carbon2011 said:

I dont know why people doubt the veyrons capability on twisty tracks.
This car easily beat the enzo on the top gear test track. Top gear can be quoted as saying 0-60 and top speed is irrelavant on this track.

Can you imagine what a **standard** veyron can acheive on nurburgring. . The gtr has achieved 7:26 enzo has acheived 7:25 both which the veyron beat on the top gear track. All the topend power, speed and breaking ability along with high speed cornering I'm guessing around 7:10 ish and this could probably do it in under 7:00. So yeah the twisty capability to demolish ferraris is all there.And to do it time and time again without an italian flar aswell.

Umm you cant compare TG and Nordschleife(and TG is only the show btw, even Stig will post much better lap times in cars easy to drive like Veyron, I doubt he is given all day to drive it round the track). I have already written on another topic that I estimate Veyron at around 7:35-7:45, Veyron SS 7:15-7:25..and that's how it is, +/- few seconds. It's still huge weight to haul around and driving dynamics isn't something made for the racetrack.

Dagnut said:

Yes the turbo will compress the air to the required boost but because the air is compressed more,worked more,what ever you want to say it leaves the turbo hotter, puts more strain on the intercooler because it has warmer air to use so it has a knock on affect...plus the turbo running hooter means more heat in the engine bay...hope that makes sense it probably doesn't....my experience from being at dynos is N/A cars are less effected by heat, or you see a bigger disparity in performance for a turbo. Don't know if there are any dyno operators here - or any one with some experience of dynoing a car in extreme hot or cold should be able to back me up.
I'm sure the effect is magnified when running 4 giant turbo s in a comparatively small engine bay like the Veyron.
I could be completely wrong here, that's just my understanding of it

You are totally right.

KC358 said:

Overrated.
Is there any reviewer with an opinion anymore? No, they just want the $.

Problem 1: Stability.
Evo Magazine asked the guy who test drove the Veyron to 267mph about stability. He said something to the extent that above 255mph it is not that stable. It weaves and follows slight road grooves.
SSC Ultimate Aero was very stable at 257mph on a road that was 10 times worse than Ehra Lessein.

Problem 2: Top speed. I would still like to see it vs the Aero on the same road at the same time. What goes faster and gets there sooner. Add in the 2010 Aero that is even faster.

Problem 3: Handling.
Bugatti claimed 1.5g for the original Veyron. Sorry, but it never managed over 0.94g. So this claim of 1.4g is higher than any other supercar has done, and claimed for a car that weighs 50% more. Yeah. And like Car & Driver said, "It feels more like a Benz SL63 AMG than, say, a BMW M3."

Problem 4: Comfort.
Conflicting reviews? C&D said this about the standard Veyron. "the Veyron proffers the ride of a Mitsubishi Evo that has been modified for professional drifting. Step-off is unpredictable and sometimes abrupt, accompanied by a not-so-charming clunk from the gearbox...At a 70-mph cruise, the Veyron is 8 dB noisier than a Porsche 911 GT2. At full throttle, it is 6 dB noisier than a track-ready Dodge Viper SRT10 ACR. It’s like living inside a snare drum. Those of us who sampled the radio said it wasn’t very good, but it was hard to tell. We couldn’t really hear it." And that is the short version.

Problem 5: FUN.
Do I care if it does 257mph if it is not fun? Not at all. I would rather have a car that does 205mph that is fun to drive and actually looks good.

1. SSC is much lighter and has more power, thus allowing it to run at those speeds with higher downforce, thus more stable than Veyron..

2. Aero is faster but not than this Veyron SS.

3. 1.4G no way, it handles surprisingly good for such weight, but I repeat for such weight...

4. No wonder it feels like a tuned EVO when its "just" much stronger AWD car. About noise yes, its very very noisy especially when we take into account other levels of comfort.

5. Agree, after few top speed runs it stops to be funny, look at the James May vid with an old Veyron. It just goes there you stop and you don't feel anything...that's not called fun.

[Blue Meanie]

On your last point... How do you know what feelings you do or don;t have after driving at those speeds? All the videos' and driver tetss I've seen has had the driver really quite enthralled.

[AreOut]

Blue Meanie said:

On your last point... How do you know what feelings you do or don;t have after driving at those speeds? All the videos' and driver tetss I've seen has had the driver really quite enthralled.

If you get enthralled at those speeds..you are in real danger. Actually making it go 257 mph without fun is great engineering achievement which should be appraised.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LO0PgyPWE3o

I can't see him thrilled at all really..I myself have never come close to 400 km/h on land (I have driven close to 300 km/h in my car..could be fun first few times).

[Blue Meanie]

Not thrilled at all?


Click for large view - [color=#A7A7A7]Uploaded with Skitch[/color]


Look from that part onwards.

[AreOut]

OK that episode was long ago No seriously listen to 8:25-8:45, it feels like it doesn't go that fast at all(which IS an achievement), his smiley&stuff are made for the show. Seriously if he was told that its a 400hp car and it had broken speedo dials&no GPS so he wouldn't know how fast he goes do you think he would be thrilled at all? He would think OK I'm doing 250 km/h What I want to say is that it is much "funnier" (not safer though) to take some 1.6 hatch to its maximum 200 km/h on a country road. On these wide ovals you don't feel speed at all...even if it's 400 km/h.

[Blue Meanie]

So what you are trying to say is that it was all fake, and he hated every moment, and was bored?

[AreOut]

No not at all, knowing you go 250 mph on the road especially first time can't be boring..but it's not exactly fun too after few runs, I'm very very sure of that.

[carinaman]

VAG pay homage to the Rover 200 BRM?

[carbon2011]

'Umm you cant compare TG and Nordschleife(and TG is only the show btw, even Stig will post much better lap times in cars easy to drive like Veyron, I doubt he is given all day to drive it round the track). I have already written on another topic that I estimate Veyron at around 7:35-7:45, Veyron SS 7:15-7:25..and that's how it is, +/- few seconds. It's still huge weight to haul around and driving dynamics isn't something made for the racetrack.'

Huge weight means nothing. The huge horsepower and torque prove that.Acceleration times prove that.Driving dynamics is a fancy word but the ability to approach a corner quickly, slow down quickly, corner quickly, and blast out of corners quickly is basically dynamics. And this car can do them all.Why you think even the standard Veyron will be >7:35 is beyond me.
7:15 about 10 seconds quicker then an Enzo is much more realistic.

Every time this car accelerates to 60mph its 1sec ahead of the Enzo.
100mph about 2 secs ahead.
150mph about 3 secs ahead.
Every time it brakes its slowing / stopping quicker then an Enzo.
For this **light weight** veyron 7:00 is very attainable.

[Dagnut]

carbon2011 said:

'Umm you cant compare TG and Nordschleife(and TG is only the show btw, even Stig will post much better lap times in cars easy to drive like Veyron, I doubt he is given all day to drive it round the track). I have already written on another topic that I estimate Veyron at around 7:35-7:45, Veyron SS 7:15-7:25..and that's how it is, +/- few seconds. It's still huge weight to haul around and driving dynamics isn't something made for the racetrack.'

Huge weight means nothing. The huge horsepower and torque prove that.Acceleration times prove that.Driving dynamics is a fancy word but the ability to approach a corner quickly, slow down quickly, corner quickly, and blast out of corners quickly is basically dynamics. And this car can do them all.Why you think even the standard Veyron will be >7:35 is beyond me.
7:15 about 10 seconds quicker then an Enzo is much more realistic.

Every time this car accelerates to 60mph its 1sec ahead of the Enzo.
100mph about 2 secs ahead.
150mph about 3 secs ahead.
Every time it brakes its slowing / stopping quicker then an Enzo.
For this **light weight** veyron 7:00 is very attainable.

Have you seen the Radicals lap?

[carbon2011]

Come on buddy you cant compare a veyron to a radical/ultima.

A car has to be strong and be able to carry at least your best friend or your favourite girlfriend in it. If it can carry your whole family ( i.e has 4 doors) thats even better. Can the Radical do that ? No. At least the veyron can easily and comfortaly accomodate another person and still acheive that lap time. Being over 8 litre engine it isnt really going to lose torque and thats not really going to affect is it. If anything it will give more grip !

Anothher thing is the weight. You cant park an ultima/radical outside your house with a strong wind. Hell , it'll just blow away !

The Veyron weighing 2000kg that isnt going to happen is it.It will at least stand its ground !

[Dagnut]

carbon2011 said:

Come on buddy you cant compare a veyron to a radical/ultima.

A car has to be strong and be able to carry at least your best friend or your favourite girlfriend in it. If it can carry your whole family ( i.e has 4 doors) thats even better. Can the Radical do that ? No. At least the veyron can easily and comfortaly accomodate another person and still acheive that lap time. Being over 8 litre engine it isnt really going to lose torque and thats not really going to affect is it. If anything it will give more grip !

Anothher thing is the weight. You cant park an ultima/radical outside your house with a strong wind. Hell , it'll just blow away !

The Veyron weighing 2000kg that isnt going to happen is it.It will at least stand its ground !

I was respond to you claiming the weight has nothing to do with...stupid thing to say...a radical can lap faster with 1/5th of the horsepower...its so obvious i'm not going to get into a debate with you