So you want to build a Supercar?

[thepinnacle]

I've been spending a great deal of time on the site and love it. I thought it was time that I finally post something rather than just "cruise" the site.

There are a million different topics I could blab on about... but being that this is my first post I wanted to get the thoughts of some posters regarding new ...or "wanna-be" new car manufacturers. It's fun reading every other day or so about the newest and latest supercar that is coming...usually presented in CG or photo-shop. Some make it to prototype...most don't. Some succeed in limited run...most don't You have the exception to the rule makers such as Pagani who through amazing attention to detail and limited run production has succeeded in creating a brand that should be a lasting one. They created an aura around themselves and sell in very limited quantity at a very high price. On the other side of the coin you have Lotus who had a winning formula but are apparently are abandoning the founding principles of lightweight semi-affordability to attempting to run with the likes Ferrari and Lambo. (See also Noble) A formula that I'm not so sure will pan out.

I'd like to hear opinions from people in here as to what they would do....what would your winning formula be to building a successful brand if given carte blanche.

Would you:

Design and create a lightweight, no frills machine at a cost. Sell more at lower margins?

Design and create an uber-exotic machine to appeal to the mega rich at ultra low volume with high margin?

Why have some companies survived vs. why others have failed or are looking failure in the face?

Personally I think that the current HP and High Speed Wars that we are constantly seeing and hearing are ridiculous. (see SSC Aero) But I suppose that in order for you to make a name for yourself you may have to build a car that will break 260 mph but be completely unusable in everyday real world conditions.

You have a blank sheet of paper... what kind of car will you design? What engine are you going to use? What is your realistic achievable weight? What car out there..new or old exhibits the characteristics you most want your new car to emulate?

I hope to hear some of you chime in and have some fun with this.

Thanks

Edited by thepinnacle on Friday 5th November 21:28

[Blue Meanie]

I'll be taking a sweepstake as to who will first post a picture of Homer's car...

[Beyond Rational]

Have you seen this thread? Might be of interest.

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

[750turbo]

thepinnacle said:

I've been spending a great deal of time on the site and love it. I thought it was time that I finally post something rather than just "cruise" the site.

There are a million different topics I could blab on about... but being that this is my first post I wanted to get the thoughts of some posters regarding new ...or "wanna-be" new car manufacturers. It's fun reading every other day or so about the newest and latest supercar that is coming...usually presented in CG or photo-shop. Some make it to prototype...most don't. Some succeed in limited run...most don't You have the exception to the rule makers such as Pagani who through amazing attention to detail and limited run production has succeeded in creating a brand that should be a lasting one. They created an aura around themselves and sell in very limited quantity at a very high price. On the other side of the coin you have Lotus who had a winning formula but are apparently are abandoning the founding principles of lightweight semi-affordability to attempting to run with the likes Ferrari and Lambo. (See also Noble) A formula that I'm not so sure will pan out.

I'd like to hear opinions from people in here as to what they would do....what would your winning formula be to building a successful brand if given carte blanche.

Would you:

Design and create a lightweight, no frills machine at a cost. Sell more at lower margins?

Design and create an uber-exotic machine to appeal to the mega rich at ultra low volume with high margin?

Why have some companies survived vs. why others have failed or are looking failure in the face?

Personally I think that the current HP and High Speed Wars that we are constantly seeing and hearing are ridiculous. (see SSC Aero) But I suppose that in order for you to make a name for yourself you may have to build a car that will break 260 mph but be either completely unusable in everyday real world conditions.

You have a blank sheet of paper... what kind of car will you design? What engine are you going to use? What is your realistic achievable weight? What car out there..new or old exhibits the characteristics you most want your new car to emulate?

I hope to hear some of you chime in and have some fun with this.

Thanks

I am only quoting this so I am sure it is here in the morning, could be interesting (Cause I is a bit sippped)

[thepinnacle]

Beyond Rational said:

Have you seen this thread? Might be of interest.

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

Nice project.

[thepinnacle]

Blue Meanie said:

I'll be taking a sweepstake as to who will first post a picture of Homer's car...

Homer?

[Beefmeister]

Nice thread, especially for a first post.

Personally i've thought about this myself a few times. If i'd been lucky enough to win the £100m+ on the Euromillions, i'd say that's enough to get a company going, then you could get more backers.

I think that although the allure of making a £500k supercar with the ubiquitous GM V8 with a supercharger or a couple of turbos, i'd be more inclined to try to launch a credible car in the TVR ethos.

400bhp V8, small, no more than 1350kg, great looks, c.£40k price tag.

I'm certain it must be possible to do without going bankrupt, though if that's the case, why hasn't it been done...

I'd actually be tempted as well to try and buy the rights to the old Smart Roadster. Then re-engineer it to have the VW twincharger 170bhp 1.4 and a proper 5spd gearbox. Sell it for £15k, job done.

[Blue Meanie]

thepinnacle said:

Blue Meanie said:

I'll be taking a sweepstake as to who will first post a picture of Homer's car...

Homer?

Yellow bloke from an animated TV show that was somewhat popular.

[snowy slopes]

Lets see. Its probably not the best version of an idea for a supercar someone has ever had, but here goes

Ally space frame chassis

Fibreglass body

Engine - tvr's speed six, probably sagaris spec and mid mounted

Normal doors, not gullwing or anything like that

Try and make it for about £50-60K and you might be onto a winner. Certainly cheaper than going the carbontitanium doohickey route, like pagani do. Not that there's anything wrong with pagani's, but a new company make do well to go along the cheaper route first, a bit like noble did in the beginning

[thepinnacle]

snowy slopes said:

Lets see. Its probably not the best version of an idea for a supercar someone has ever had, but here goes

Ally space frame chassis

Fibreglass body

Engine - tvr's speed six, probably sagaris spec and mid mounted

Normal doors, not gullwing or anything like that

Try and make it for about £50-60K and you might be onto a winner. Certainly cheaper than going the carbontitanium doohickey route, like pagani do. Not that there's anything wrong with pagani's, but a new company make do well to go along the cheaper route first, a bit like noble did in the beginning

If somebody followed the principles you're laying out but wrapped it in a sexy uber car body I think that it could be a successful formula. They're are companies that are or have done this but more often than not they looked kind of pedestrian...ala...Rossion etc etc.

[Justices]

Blue Meanie said:

thepinnacle said:

Blue Meanie said:

I'll be taking a sweepstake as to who will first post a picture of Homer's car...

Homer?

Yellow bloke from an animated TV show that was somewhat popular.

[davepoth]

Supercars are much easier to make financially viable. If you go for a production run, the development costs aren't covered by the first car, and if you need to sell in volumes that require type approval, it gets very expensive indeed.

[simonrockman]

There is a new space in the market which Lotus have just left.

[Beefmeister]

I think there's a genuine £25-40k market around now that TVR have died and Lotus are vacating the building.

Re: the engine - I agree that the 1.4 TFSi isn't a very nice engine. The Mini lump is a bit big though. Bear in mind than the back end of the Smart Roadster is very small, so a small engine is needed. Preferably with 150bhp.

[thepinnacle]

simonrockman said:

There is a new space in the market which Lotus have just left.

I don’t understand their thinking on this........

[thepinnacle]

Bump.)

[groomi]

I think the reason nobody is fighting for the affordable lightweight sportscar market is simply that there is not enough money to be made. Go upmarket and you can sell for bigger margins and make less cars. Unfortunately for us as driving fanatics, upmarket tends to mean more powerful which then leads to heavier.

Why is there a perception in the car industry (mainly amongst consumers) that a basic, lightweight car must be cheaper. Following Chapmans mantra of 'Less is more', then we should be paying more for lighter weight - much like the technology sector where a smaller phone/laptop etc. are more expensive.

I'd like to see upmarket go lightweight. (Not Lambo superleggera, but properly, properly lightweight). Imagine an Elise with immaculate build quality and detailing and a brand strong enough to sell it those who can afford it.

[robsco]

Interesting thread this one, and the subject is one that I've thought a lot about. As people on here have said already, there is a definite market for a high powered, low weight and relatively cheap sports car.

After all, Noble have abandoned ship to chase the big boys, Lotus are heading in the same direction and Morgans are a rather different breed and an acquired taste. Wiesmann are on the right lines but they're just too expensive for too many people.

I'd be taking influence from the Wheeler era of TVR. Sure, what they did wasn't perfect, but what they did manage to do was create a fierce brand loyalty (indispensible in this market), and sell very fast and beautiful cars at a price that made them attainable to Joe Public.

3 models and the line up would be sorted; a modern day Griffith to act as the classic British sports car, a Tuscan for those who want something a little more manic, with a Cerbera-esque coupe to act as the flagship. TVR Power could step in with their genius Speed Six upgrades to assure the public of reliability, maybe a GM V8 for the big Griffs to retain that classic burble in keeping with its character, and a choice for the Cerbera.

I'm positive TVR could sweep up the British sports car market if someone out there would take the bull by the horns. I'd certainly love to give it a go, with a blank chequebook and new ideas. I can dream.

[thepinnacle]

Thanks for the input guys

I think if a manufacturer developed a quality almost out of reach vehicle like Pagani has been able to do... establish that lust facfor..then come in with a more reasonbly priced alternative it could be an avenue for success. Bugatti for instance didn't produce the Veyron for profits per vehicle sake but to re-establish the brand as well as using it for a test bed for new technology.

[thepinnacle]

groomi said:

I think the reason nobody is fighting for the affordable lightweight sportscar market is simply that there is not enough money to be made. Go upmarket and you can sell for bigger margins and make less cars. Unfortunately for us as driving fanatics, upmarket tends to mean more powerful which then leads to heavier.

Why is there a perception in the car industry (mainly amongst consumers) that a basic, lightweight car must be cheaper. Following Chapmans mantra of 'Less is more', then we should be paying more for lighter weight - much like the technology sector where a smaller phone/laptop etc. are more expensive.

I'd like to see upmarket go lightweight. (Not Lambo superleggera, but properly, properly lightweight). Imagine an Elise with immaculate build quality and detailing and a brand strong enough to sell it those who can afford it.

Good points...