E39 Auto - Start of a failure?
Discussion
Anyone had an E39 auto gearbox fail on them that can tell me the early symtoms. Car really struggled to go from 4th to 5th for the first 30 mins both to and from work today.
Hard to describe but as it went to shift, there was a sensation that felt like sudden increased drag for a ~1 sec before a thump into the next gear.
Thoughts?
Hard to describe but as it went to shift, there was a sensation that felt like sudden increased drag for a ~1 sec before a thump into the next gear.
Thoughts?
Honest John's E39 'What's Bad' page said:
General Warning about Automatic Transmissions: Many BMWs have "sealed for life" automatic transmissions. Regardless of whether you have a full BMW service history, the dealer will never change the auto fluid. Many of these boxes are failing around the 120-150k mark - often well outside of warranty and to a cost of £3.5k plus VAT. A good independent or automatic transmission specialist can and will change the fluid for you (and any good BMW independents will recommend this anyway). This is commonplace in the US and means the 'box should last the life of the car rather than being the cause of it being written off. General advice is ensure the fluid is flushed out every 60k or more preferably at each Inspection II. However, one specialist says autoboxes do not take well to being drained and having their ATF replaced.
The box in the E31 started slipping, found out it was that s
t sealed for life bks, dropped the tranny out and had it fully flushed with the correct fluid and topped up, has been fine ever since.
Gearboxes are almost always overlooked in all cars and the oil is never changed half the time, which reminds me, the E34 is due a full service again.
Get the car to a reputable specialist and get the fluid changed before the car becomes scrap and not viable economically, as a new box will cost a fortune.
t sealed for life bks, dropped the tranny out and had it fully flushed with the correct fluid and topped up, has been fine ever since.Gearboxes are almost always overlooked in all cars and the oil is never changed half the time, which reminds me, the E34 is due a full service again.
Get the car to a reputable specialist and get the fluid changed before the car becomes scrap and not viable economically, as a new box will cost a fortune.
Thanks chaps. I've had the car since the end of July and did do my research prior to purchase - from what I have read, it's a total failure all at once, so I was expecting limp mode but it didn't happen. I've just clocked over 142K so it's with the quoted failure range, but (lame excuse) just haven't had the time to get the ATF done.
Better get it booked in ASAP!
Better get it booked in ASAP!
pits said:
The box in the E31 started slipping, found out it was that st sealed for life bks, dropped the tranny out and had it fully flushed with the correct fluid and topped up, has been fine ever since.
Gearboxes are almost always overlooked in all cars and the oil is never changed half the time, which reminds me, the E34 is due a full service again.
Get the car to a reputable specialist and get the fluid changed before the car becomes scrap and not viable economically, as a new box will cost a fortune.
Thats the concern and the risk of "bargain barge" motoring. I paid 3800 for it a few months back, I see that a recon box, fitted, is around the 3K mark so what do you do if it does go? I've stuck 7K on it since I've had it and it's perfect tool for what I need it to do but, once you plow 3K into it, you have to keep it. The only other option is you scrap it for, what? 1K? Thats near on 3K for 4 months drive. C'est la viet sealed for life bks, dropped the tranny out and had it fully flushed with the correct fluid and topped up, has been fine ever since.Gearboxes are almost always overlooked in all cars and the oil is never changed half the time, which reminds me, the E34 is due a full service again.
Get the car to a reputable specialist and get the fluid changed before the car becomes scrap and not viable economically, as a new box will cost a fortune.
paprika said:
Oil / filter change is around 100, do this first. However be warned, this may actually fk over the box as the metal filings may be the only thing keeping it altogether..... Once this is flushed out it could just fk the box up.
rebuild etc is actually more around 1250 + vat.
I have never once had this swarf/crap come out of any gearbox or diff fluid change I have ever done, I have had old knackered fluid come out, but never metal filings that hold it all together, do you have any personal experience of flushing a gearbox out and it then subsequently fell apart as all the metal filings were drained out?k over the box as the metal filings may be the only thing keeping it altogether..... Once this is flushed out it could just fk the box up.rebuild etc is actually more around 1250 + vat.
Make sure that who ever you take it to know what they are doing though, I couldn't stress this enough, gearbox oil isn't just oil, different grades, different types and if you have the wrong fluid this will just ruin your gearbox, you need to find the exact fluid and filter for the box and really only one place for this BMW, although an ask around on a BMW 5 series forum may be worth a shot for a good solid recommendation for oil to use.
It also advised that you do the fluid change at least twice, as you will only be changing around 3/4 of the fluid in the box, unless you can properly pump all the fluid through, it may cost a few hundred quid though, for example my Mitsi needs £150 worth of fluid, and this needs to be pumped around the system till the old fluid is new, about 12-15 litres of fluid
pits said:
paprika said:
Oil / filter change is around 100, do this first. However be warned, this may actually fk over the box as the metal filings may be the only thing keeping it altogether..... Once this is flushed out it could just fk the box up.
rebuild etc is actually more around 1250 + vat.
I have never once had this swarf/crap come out of any gearbox or diff fluid change I have ever done, I have had old knackered fluid come out, but never metal filings that hold it all together, do you have any personal experience of flushing a gearbox out and it then subsequently fell apart as all the metal filings were drained out?k over the box as the metal filings may be the only thing keeping it altogether..... Once this is flushed out it could just fk the box up.rebuild etc is actually more around 1250 + vat.
Make sure that who ever you take it to know what they are doing though, I couldn't stress this enough, gearbox oil isn't just oil, different grades, different types and if you have the wrong fluid this will just ruin your gearbox, you need to find the exact fluid and filter for the box and really only one place for this BMW, although an ask around on a BMW 5 series forum may be worth a shot for a good solid recommendation for oil to use.
It also advised that you do the fluid change at least twice, as you will only be changing around 3/4 of the fluid in the box, unless you can properly pump all the fluid through, it may cost a few hundred quid though, for example my Mitsi needs £150 worth of fluid, and this needs to be pumped around the system till the old fluid is new, about 12-15 litres of fluid
"Paprika"
Not so keen on your points raised
I think a lot of the failures of autoboxes after a fluid change are the result of
1. people/technicians who don't understand the filling proceedure for the autobox and as a result underfill it after a fluid change and too little oil even when it's clean can quickly condemn a good box
2. The last desparate act in order to hopefully fix a box that already has "problems"
Half decent "how to thread" with pictures in the BMW section covering changing autobox fluid on a E38 740 (I wrote it) it's been linked in several thread so shouldn't be too hard to find
Edited by B'stard Child on Monday 29th November 22:30
Depends on model year and engine. Petrols have ZF and Diesels GM - totally different gearboxes.
The most common thing on them is failure of reverse - this is very common on 99-01 petrols.
Wost case you should be able to get it done for about £1600 inc. VAT or lower if you shop around.
The most common thing on them is failure of reverse - this is very common on 99-01 petrols.
Wost case you should be able to get it done for about £1600 inc. VAT or lower if you shop around.
confused_buyer said:
Depends on model year and engine. Petrols have ZF and Diesels GM - totally different gearboxes.
The most common thing on them is failure of reverse - this is very common on 99-01 petrols.
Wost case you should be able to get it done for about £1600 inc. VAT or lower if you shop around.
Isn't the reverse failure on ZF's down to the failure of a small plastic one way valve and that's repairable in situ?The most common thing on them is failure of reverse - this is very common on 99-01 petrols.
Wost case you should be able to get it done for about £1600 inc. VAT or lower if you shop around.
Not a clue on the diesel models as I've never owned one so never bothered to research if it has a similar problem area....
B'stard Child said:
Isn't the reverse failure on ZF's down to the failure of a small plastic one way valve and that's repairable in situ?
Not a clue on the diesel models as I've never owned one so never bothered to research if it has a similar problem area....
It's certainly down to a pretty small, not very expensive part but as far as I know pretty much the whole gearbox has to come apart to get to it so the end cost is usually about the same as a full refurb. Not a clue on the diesel models as I've never owned one so never bothered to research if it has a similar problem area....
The diesels have their problems but different ones to the ZF petrols. The last couple of years E39 production (2002-2003) seem to have beefier gearboxes on both petrol and autos and I've rarely seen problems on those. Of course, just when they'd made the 5-speed reliable they went and replaced it with the 6-speed in the E60 which has a whole new set of issues....
Edited by confused_buyer on Monday 29th November 23:04
confused_buyer said:
B'stard Child said:
Isn't the reverse failure on ZF's down to the failure of a small plastic one way valve and that's repairable in situ?
Not a clue on the diesel models as I've never owned one so never bothered to research if it has a similar problem area....
It's certainly down to a pretty small, not very expensive part but as far as I know pretty much the whole gearbox has to come apart to get to it so the end cost is usually about the same as a full refurb. Not a clue on the diesel models as I've never owned one so never bothered to research if it has a similar problem area....
The diesels have their problems but different ones to the ZF petrols. The last couple of years E39 production (2002-2003) seem to have beefier gearboxes on both petrol and autos and I've rarely seen problems on those. Of course, just when they'd made the 5-speed reliable they went and replaced it with the 6-speed in the E60 which has a whole new set of issues....
Edited by confused_buyer on Monday 29th November 23:04
Went off to find the thread I wrote a while back if it helps anyone
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
I've done the flush myself on a 540i and it wasn't that tough. What came out was pretty scummy. Do it yourself, at least you know that it's been done properly then. You can let it drain properly etc, whereas a garage won't do that. In fact if a garage does it you don't even know if they've even done anything.
pits said:
paprika said:
Oil / filter change is around 100, do this first. However be warned, this may actually fk over the box as the metal filings may be the only thing keeping it altogether..... Once this is flushed out it could just fk the box up.
rebuild etc is actually more around 1250 + vat.
I have never once had this swarf/crap come out of any gearbox or diff fluid change I have ever done, I have had old knackered fluid come out, but never metal filings that hold it all together, do you have any personal experience of flushing a gearbox out and it then subsequently fell apart as all the metal filings were drained out?k over the box as the metal filings may be the only thing keeping it altogether..... Once this is flushed out it could just fk the box up.rebuild etc is actually more around 1250 + vat.
Make sure that who ever you take it to know what they are doing though, I couldn't stress this enough, gearbox oil isn't just oil, different grades, different types and if you have the wrong fluid this will just ruin your gearbox, you need to find the exact fluid and filter for the box and really only one place for this BMW, although an ask around on a BMW 5 series forum may be worth a shot for a good solid recommendation for oil to use.
It also advised that you do the fluid change at least twice, as you will only be changing around 3/4 of the fluid in the box, unless you can properly pump all the fluid through, it may cost a few hundred quid though, for example my Mitsi needs £150 worth of fluid, and this needs to be pumped around the system till the old fluid is new, about 12-15 litres of fluid
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff