difference between driving lamps & fog lights?
Discussion
RobM77 said:
Mr Dave said:
I have never been dazzled by anyone elses front fog lights, the use of them in good weather isnt illegal in a lot of other countries so I really dont see what the fuss is about. If it dazzles you that much a trip to the opticians is in order or perhaps get a pair of yellow driving glasses as they do cut down glare and if two low aimed fogs dazzle you dangerously then im sure other lights will as well and that isnt safe!
I do find that Puegeot 206 headlights are the only non-hid lights that dazzle me sometimes, you can tell on a dark road what car it is by how glaring their lights can be.
Anyway I use my front fogs down country lanes and rubbish back roads but always do turn them off when an theres an approaching car. Ive never been flashed at or anything like that so I hope im being considerate enough.Sometimes when visibility is bad I would leave them on passing other cars but it seems it would be preferable to leave my main beams on instead.
Funny how everyone assumes that their eyes are the same as everyone else's... Everyone has a different sensitivity to noise and light (and smell, taste and touch). Only the other day I had a bunch of people looking at Jupiter through my telescope; one reported it was a bit dim for them to see and one other said it was too bright for their eyes! Same eyepiece, same night, just different eyes. Personally, my eyes are extremely sensitive. I can't look at the moon through my telescope without a filter, and yes, fog lights do dazzle me.I do find that Puegeot 206 headlights are the only non-hid lights that dazzle me sometimes, you can tell on a dark road what car it is by how glaring their lights can be.
Anyway I use my front fogs down country lanes and rubbish back roads but always do turn them off when an theres an approaching car. Ive never been flashed at or anything like that so I hope im being considerate enough.Sometimes when visibility is bad I would leave them on passing other cars but it seems it would be preferable to leave my main beams on instead.
I have never been dazzled by properly aligned front fog lights in any conditions, fog, rain, sun or shine.
If one looks at the lighting regulations and examines the downward angle that fog lights have to be aimed, 3 per cent below the horizontal, and compare that with dipped headlights, 1.3 per cent below horizontal or 2 percent if headlight is >830mm above the road surface, then it is clear that correctly aimed fog lights will not dazzle except in certain particular situations, perhaps a very reflective wet surface, or vehicle meeting at a crest and so on.
The problem comes from a) manufacturers who don't align them properly in the first place, PSA group seem especially bad at this, and b) knobs who realise that a correctly aligned light illuminates square root of stuff all and then start realigning them to shine a bit further than two feet in front.
Personally I don't get wound up by it any more, used to, but not now. Simply use it as somebody else said, an indication towards the cocksocketry tendencies of the driver.
In over 40 years of driving I have only ever needed to use front fog lights for real once, high up on the Derbyshire moors in a real pea souper. We were down to 10 mph conditions. Otherwise they have been, and continue to be a feature of the car I would happily remove.
As others have pointed out, the laws in other countries differ. For example here in Sweden where full time daylight running lights have been required for many years, front fog lights can be used in place of the DRLs, eg dipped heads. But by law you must not use both dipped heads and front fogs together. Doesn't stop 'em though.
Edited to add the information I was going to post when I started and forgot. DOH!!
Also the type approval marking on the lens will show the difference between fog and driving lamps.
iirc
B = Fog lamp
R = Driving /spot lamp old fashioned tungsten filament bulb
HR = Driving/spot lamp halogen bulb
DR = Driving/spot lamp HID bulb
HTH
sorry for forgetting
FiF
If one looks at the lighting regulations and examines the downward angle that fog lights have to be aimed, 3 per cent below the horizontal, and compare that with dipped headlights, 1.3 per cent below horizontal or 2 percent if headlight is >830mm above the road surface, then it is clear that correctly aimed fog lights will not dazzle except in certain particular situations, perhaps a very reflective wet surface, or vehicle meeting at a crest and so on.
The problem comes from a) manufacturers who don't align them properly in the first place, PSA group seem especially bad at this, and b) knobs who realise that a correctly aligned light illuminates square root of stuff all and then start realigning them to shine a bit further than two feet in front.
Personally I don't get wound up by it any more, used to, but not now. Simply use it as somebody else said, an indication towards the cocksocketry tendencies of the driver.
In over 40 years of driving I have only ever needed to use front fog lights for real once, high up on the Derbyshire moors in a real pea souper. We were down to 10 mph conditions. Otherwise they have been, and continue to be a feature of the car I would happily remove.
As others have pointed out, the laws in other countries differ. For example here in Sweden where full time daylight running lights have been required for many years, front fog lights can be used in place of the DRLs, eg dipped heads. But by law you must not use both dipped heads and front fogs together. Doesn't stop 'em though.
Edited to add the information I was going to post when I started and forgot. DOH!!
Also the type approval marking on the lens will show the difference between fog and driving lamps.
iirc
B = Fog lamp
R = Driving /spot lamp old fashioned tungsten filament bulb
HR = Driving/spot lamp halogen bulb
DR = Driving/spot lamp HID bulb
HTH
sorry for forgetting
FiF
Edited by F i F on Thursday 2nd December 14:19
300 - I had a K&N FIPK on which I drilled the base plate to allow cold air to be pulled in from under the car and the fog hole allowed more cold air in. Should point out that the Z28 lights are probably not strictly fogs anyway, being eyeball shaped half-spheres prone to misting up.
My point was that the brighter better quality bulbs may have negated/over-ridden the difference you saw and my point overall is that people should upgrade their headlamp bulbs rather than defaulting to fogs.
My point was that the brighter better quality bulbs may have negated/over-ridden the difference you saw and my point overall is that people should upgrade their headlamp bulbs rather than defaulting to fogs.
Edited by LuS1fer on Thursday 2nd December 14:54
LuS1fer said:
300 - I had a K&N FIPK on which I drilled the base plate to allow cold air to be pulled in from under the car and the fog hole allowed more cold air in. Should point out that the Z28 lights are probably not strictly fogs anyway, being eyeball shaped half-spheres prone to misting up.
My point was that the brighter better quality bulbs may have negated/over-ridden the difference you saw and my point overall is that people should upgrade their headlamp bulbs rather than defaulting to fogs.
Ok no worries My point was that the brighter better quality bulbs may have negated/over-ridden the difference you saw and my point overall is that people should upgrade their headlamp bulbs rather than defaulting to fogs.
Edited by LuS1fer on Thursday 2nd December 14:54
Bulb upgrade is on the cars, put some better ones in the Roadster recently and they made a difference. Maybe you are right with better bulbs I might not notice it as much.
RobM77 said:
In response to the OP, to be honest money would be better spent on upgrading your headlight bulbs. Driving lights are more about being seen than seeing, and foglights only shine a beam to illuminate the edges of the road when you're crawling along in a pea-souper. The other sort of driving lights are the aforementioned ones fitted to the Elise and other cars, which are wired into the main beam (think of those modded Escorts from the 70s) - they do make a big difference if you can do the wiring to have them come on with the main beam only. As a first step though, I'd upgrade your headlights bulbs and see how you get on with that.
HTH
this was the first thing i did when i bought the car. its a mk2[?] clio with the sport twin headlamps and i changed all the bulbs for halfords extreme brilliance, about £18-20 a bulb. the difference on main beam is very marked, but dipped is still rubbish.HTH
its a car bought purely for commuting, which until feb/march time is going to be done in the dark. i guess reading the responses a driving light isn't what i want as main beam visibility is fine. the dipped beam is s
t, but with fogs on [as this week in the driving snow] its fine. i can't upgrade the headlamps cheaply, so all i was after was a way to use the foglights legally by adapting either the bulb or lens. OP, I'm in a similar position as you - my shed has poor dipped beam (Rover 218).
I'm toying with the idea of some Osram Night Breaker Plus since they did well in a recent Auto Express test. Haven't found anyone who's tried them for real yet though.
link to bulbs
I'm toying with the idea of some Osram Night Breaker Plus since they did well in a recent Auto Express test. Haven't found anyone who's tried them for real yet though.
link to bulbs
LuS1fer said:
For those, incidentally, who say "I've never been flashed", I am often prevented from doing so by my conscience because I don't want the car in front to think I'm flashing them.
Probably because they're the same people that think it's OK to tailgate and let the person in front know they're going too slowly and should pull over out of the way immediately. i'll give them a whirl on the dipped beam. cheaper too. mmmmmm - halfrauds!
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/products/products/230...
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/products/products/258...
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/products/products/230...
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/products/products/258...
Just a point, I've sometimes found that a better effect on dipped beam quality can be found by buying really good quality bulbs where the filament is positioned absolutely correctly, rather than simply buying brighter and brighter bulbs.
I found Bosch rather good for this. Obviously the lamp / reflector design is key whether this advice applies.
HTH
I found Bosch rather good for this. Obviously the lamp / reflector design is key whether this advice applies.
HTH
shirt said:
i'll give them a whirl on the dipped beam. cheaper too. mmmmmm - halfrauds!
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/products/products/230...
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/products/products/258...
Just make sure it's the "plus" bulbs, I bet some folk are selling off the original Night Breaker, that the Plus replaces, at a mark down price!http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/products/products/230...
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/products/products/258...
Bit of a bump for a related question - Any reason why I cannot fit a pair of these with dipped beam lenses, in the empty fog-light cut-out on my car (below bumper height) to supplement my normal dipped headlights? Any switching combinations stipulated in C&U that I need to be aware of? I was planning to either wire them in to my headlight switch or perhaps fit a separate switch for simplicity.
Silver Smudger said:
Bit of a bump for a related question - Any reason why I cannot fit a pair of these with dipped beam lenses, in the empty fog-light cut-out on my car (below bumper height) to supplement my normal dipped headlights? Any switching combinations stipulated in C&U that I need to be aware of? I was planning to either wire them in to my headlight switch or perhaps fit a separate switch for simplicity.
Google Road Vehicle Lighting Regulations and look up schedule 4 part II this relates to optional dipped beam headlamps.In summary dipped beam headlamps are obligatory lights and you must have two and not more than two. Certain exceptions for particular vehicles.
If you do fit extra optional dipped beam lamps then in short
Must be fitted in a pair.
Colour white or yellow.
Designed to be fitted to a RH drive car ie dip pattern to left
Wired so that you can only have one pair illuminated at any one time.
Adjustable for alignment when vehicle is stationary.
Height from road surface 500-1200mm.
Sounds like you may fail on this last issue, and not legal to use to supplement normal dip beams. Assuming you could solve the height issue you could use either pair but not both.
F i F said:
Silver Smudger said:
Bit of a bump for a related question - Any reason why I cannot fit a pair of these with dipped beam lenses, in the empty fog-light cut-out on my car (below bumper height) to supplement my normal dipped headlights? Any switching combinations stipulated in C&U that I need to be aware of? I was planning to either wire them in to my headlight switch or perhaps fit a separate switch for simplicity.
Google Road Vehicle Lighting Regulations and look up schedule 4 part II this relates to optional dipped beam headlamps.In summary dipped beam headlamps are obligatory lights and you must have two and not more than two. Certain exceptions for particular vehicles.
If you do fit extra optional dipped beam lamps then in short
Must be fitted in a pair.
Colour white or yellow.
Designed to be fitted to a RH drive car ie dip pattern to left
Wired so that you can only have one pair illuminated at any one time.
Adjustable for alignment when vehicle is stationary.
Height from road surface 500-1200mm.
Sounds like you may fail on this last issue, and not legal to use to supplement normal dip beams. Assuming you could solve the height issue you could use either pair but not both.
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