RE: Caterham Readying 'Entirely New' Car
Discussion
Carparticus said:
These new pancake motors are just 3 inches thick and only a 13 inches in diameter (and can be 'stacked' for even more power etc, or even one per wheel with suitable vectoring control). But here's the killer point .. it has 500 Nm of torque, or about 375 Lb ft in old money.
I'm a massive fan of Axial flux motors like the Yasa item, but we need to be careful quoting Torque figures. The last time I checked, the Yasa item was designed to be a direct drive unit, i.e. no gearing and unimpressive torque at the wheels compared to a conventional car. Although this could easily have changed, and there are other axial flux motors designed to use gearboxes, such as the Evo Electric item.Also, there are currently significant limits imposed on how much torque and power can be produced by the power electronics, so unfortunately it's not just a case of stacking them up and multiplying the performance.
Still, it's a valid point for the future, these sort of motors have potential for huge performance relative to a fuel burner.
Carparticus said:
I wouldn’t be surprised if its an Electric Caterham with acceleration to out run the Millenium Falcon.
I recently witnessed a Westfield with a new UK made YASA EV motor in it (as made in Oxford…) and to say the power was something else would be an understatement.
These new pancake motors are just 3 inches thick and only a 13 inches in diameter (and can be 'stacked' for even more power etc, or even one per wheel with suitable vectoring control). But here's the killer point .. it has 500 Nm of torque, or about 375 Lb ft in old money.
In other words, the incredibly small size and weight of these new motors compared to the weight of old internal combustion lumps, and the resulting weight savings overall and the need for remarkably compact high power LiFePO4 pack … are all starting to make a lot of sense !
I think you need to Google 'White Goods'. This is Pistonheads. I recently witnessed a Westfield with a new UK made YASA EV motor in it (as made in Oxford…) and to say the power was something else would be an understatement.
These new pancake motors are just 3 inches thick and only a 13 inches in diameter (and can be 'stacked' for even more power etc, or even one per wheel with suitable vectoring control). But here's the killer point .. it has 500 Nm of torque, or about 375 Lb ft in old money.
In other words, the incredibly small size and weight of these new motors compared to the weight of old internal combustion lumps, and the resulting weight savings overall and the need for remarkably compact high power LiFePO4 pack … are all starting to make a lot of sense !
MiniMadMike said:
MiniMan64 said:
Gotta be a roadracer/trackday Radical type car surely?
Was going to say exactly the same. Gotta be radical-esque. Very exciting though, hope it is something as different as they seem to suggest.RobM77 said:
JonRB said:
Insight said:
Maybe, just maybe, they've bought the rights to the Mk1 Lotus Elise and they are going to produce that for all eternity!!!
This is what my money is on. 
My initial thoughts, which I'm sticking with, were a Radical / XTR / Lotus 2-11 competitor - proper aero kit and pitched above the Seven in price. But a "Caterham S1" would be a lovely thought...
The Wookie said:
Carparticus said:
These new pancake motors are just 3 inches thick and only a 13 inches in diameter (and can be 'stacked' for even more power etc, or even one per wheel with suitable vectoring control). But here's the killer point .. it has 500 Nm of torque, or about 375 Lb ft in old money.
I'm a massive fan of Axial flux motors like the Yasa item, but we need to be careful quoting Torque figures. The last time I checked, the Yasa item was designed to be a direct drive unit, i.e. no gearing and unimpressive torque at the wheels compared to a conventional car. Although this could easily have changed, and there are other axial flux motors designed to use gearboxes, such as the Evo Electric item.Also, there are currently significant limits imposed on how much torque and power can be produced by the power electronics, so unfortunately it's not just a case of stacking them up and multiplying the performance.
Still, it's a valid point for the future, these sort of motors have potential for huge performance relative to a fuel burner.
Riggers said:
Munter said:
Insight said:
Maybe, just maybe, they've bought the rights to the Mk1 Lotus Elise and they are going to produce that for all eternity!!!
Sadly, I believe there's a slice of steak and kidney hiding behind that cloud over there...
Caterham Elan maybe more likely? I suppose they "could" come up with a new design but I some how doubt it.
Electric motors, = awesome (high efficiency, high specfic torque, robust, low friction etc)
Battery energy storage = sucks (Heavy (low specific energy density & limited specific power, expensive, not very durable and requires expensive power electronics to get the best from (both charge and discharge.
Basically the opposite of an internal combustion system (engine = crap, fuel = awesome).........
Sit down and price up 200kW of electic system and compare that to say the £ per kW for a decent duratec.
Battery energy storage = sucks (Heavy (low specific energy density & limited specific power, expensive, not very durable and requires expensive power electronics to get the best from (both charge and discharge.
Basically the opposite of an internal combustion system (engine = crap, fuel = awesome).........
Sit down and price up 200kW of electic system and compare that to say the £ per kW for a decent duratec.
I an definitely see this being a leap into some large shoes left over by the new Lotus range. Given the co-operative history of the two firms, I wouldn't be surprised if it was a revitalised Lotus product - an Elise Mk1 with a range of engines running on throttle-bodies including twin 'bike units would be divine. However, they've said 'entirely new'. Does that mean entirely new for Caterham, or entirely new to the world of cars?
Given that it seems Proton have designs on some of the current Lotus crop, I reckon if it was a previous-model Lotus it'd have to be the Elise.
As for the Elan - Vegantune tried that in the '80s and flopped badly. If such an iconic car couldn't find favour in the market, especially when given modern dependability at a time when the original car was becoming an investor's favourite, I'm not sure it'll ever be fully accepted with anything other than a Lotus badge on the nose.
The Mk1 Elise, however, I can see as a definite possibility.
Given that it seems Proton have designs on some of the current Lotus crop, I reckon if it was a previous-model Lotus it'd have to be the Elise.
As for the Elan - Vegantune tried that in the '80s and flopped badly. If such an iconic car couldn't find favour in the market, especially when given modern dependability at a time when the original car was becoming an investor's favourite, I'm not sure it'll ever be fully accepted with anything other than a Lotus badge on the nose.
The Mk1 Elise, however, I can see as a definite possibility.
RenesisEvo said:
MiniMadMike said:
MiniMan64 said:
Gotta be a roadracer/trackday Radical type car surely?
Was going to say exactly the same. Gotta be radical-esque. Very exciting though, hope it is something as different as they seem to suggest.Agent Orange said:
Riggers said:
Munter said:
Insight said:
Maybe, just maybe, they've bought the rights to the Mk1 Lotus Elise and they are going to produce that for all eternity!!!
Sadly, I believe there's a slice of steak and kidney hiding behind that cloud over there...
Caterham Elan maybe more likely? I suppose they "could" come up with a new design but I some how doubt it.
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