RE: Driven: Ferrari 458 Italia
Discussion
b14 said:
Or even better make it look like a 288GTO, IMO the best looking car ever made.
Edited by b14 on Wednesday 15th December 10:50
Hopefully Ferrari will develop a modern retro offering of the 288 at some point, they are just utterly stunning
Edited by j_s14a on Wednesday 15th December 19:38
MikeO996 said:
Is it true, as Clarkson said, that if you have the sat nav on there isn't a speedo? If so that's surely a bit of a problem (not to mention borderline illegal)
No, he's a clown, in the TG test you can a speedo on dash is in the background with the satnav onI've never known somebody talk so much s
te and still be allowed on telly to give his views.Streetrod said:
Would Ferrari customers buy a sub 1200kg NA enginned 458 replacement with a minimum or electronics, conventional spring/damper units with a mechanical diff and iron brakes, i.e. an upmarket Elise? Would this be seen as a step backwards? Or is Ferrari duty bound to constantly push the performance envelop at what ever cost to eke out that extra tenth here or there.
I can’t believe I am saying this as a dyed in the wool petrol head, but when is enough enough?
A few reasons why not, one of the main being that they wouldn't expect their customers to buy one, secondly the fact that it's all 'brand image', which really distresses me more than losing the manual box. It all has to be harmonious and in conjunction with the racing so that everyone can pretend they could drive an F1 car if they wanted because, y'know, it looks well easy.I can’t believe I am saying this as a dyed in the wool petrol head, but when is enough enough?
The thing that gets me is with all the drivers aids now are we making the future generation worse drivers.
Example my future grandchildren will they be that used to all theses driver aids that if they was to get into a old car would they be dangerous.
And are we giving people a false sense of been driving gods when its the electronics helping them then when they get in a different car and realise they are not its to late and harm someone else.
Example my future grandchildren will they be that used to all theses driver aids that if they was to get into a old car would they be dangerous.
And are we giving people a false sense of been driving gods when its the electronics helping them then when they get in a different car and realise they are not its to late and harm someone else.
Obviously brand adherence etc is important to Ferrari and all car companies and they all do their homework on what direction to take with customer forums and such marketing nonsense but no one can argue with their profitability. The fact is that your average 'rari customer will love the car as is (13k paint job included), will not care much about the box and will rarely get out of 3rd gear in London. Very few find their way onto the track and very few will have the manetino switched to 'Race' or 'Commit Suicide Today' as one dealer informed me it stood for. If they could be brave enough to create a baby ferrari (did someone say dino?) with a manual gearbox, lightweight shell, all the in vogue weight saving measures like cloth door handles etc and sold it for GT3 money I think they would absolutely clean up without hurting their core offering. That said, if it wasn't for them and others pushing the envelope with performance enhancements, they would never be able to commercialise the stuff that feeds down into more affordable cars. My GT3 has carbon brakes as a result of a development programme mainly funded by more expensive cars - that has to be a good thing right? I think these cars are awesome and would expect the Scud' to be epic if / when it arrives. I would not buy one though.
pistonchris said:
The thing that gets me is with all the drivers aids now are we making the future generation worse drivers.
Example my future grandchildren will they be that used to all theses driver aids that if they was to get into a old car would they be dangerous.
And are we giving people a false sense of been driving gods when its the electronics helping them then when they get in a different car and realise they are not its to late and harm someone else.
People crash regardless of driver aids, regardless of modern cars. Example my future grandchildren will they be that used to all theses driver aids that if they was to get into a old car would they be dangerous.
And are we giving people a false sense of been driving gods when its the electronics helping them then when they get in a different car and realise they are not its to late and harm someone else.
I have been very vocal in dismay at this head long rush towards computer controlled cars. You can read my driving impressions of the 458 back on page two of this thread. But I was buoyed by an article I read in one of my old Octane magazines yesterday whilst in the bath.
It was a comparison test between the Mclaren F1 and the Veyron and was written by Rowan Atkinson. The bit that really caught my attention was a comment from Pierre-Henri Raphanel, the Bugatti test driver. He said and I quote "You can push a Veyron into corners up to 30% faster than you should, and the electronics will always sort you out."
Just think about the comment for a moment and its long term implications to future car development as that technology filters down to lesser cars. The 458 is already in a similar position as I stated in my post on page two. Have we now got to that point where effectively the driver is almost becoming superfluous to requirements?
Rowan Atkinson seems to agree with me. Although he owns the F1 in the article he admits the Veyron is a wonderful bit of kit but concludes that and again I quote “In the Bugatti although you have the steering wheel in front of you, often you fell more like a well-informed passenger"
It was a comparison test between the Mclaren F1 and the Veyron and was written by Rowan Atkinson. The bit that really caught my attention was a comment from Pierre-Henri Raphanel, the Bugatti test driver. He said and I quote "You can push a Veyron into corners up to 30% faster than you should, and the electronics will always sort you out."
Just think about the comment for a moment and its long term implications to future car development as that technology filters down to lesser cars. The 458 is already in a similar position as I stated in my post on page two. Have we now got to that point where effectively the driver is almost becoming superfluous to requirements?
Rowan Atkinson seems to agree with me. Although he owns the F1 in the article he admits the Veyron is a wonderful bit of kit but concludes that and again I quote “In the Bugatti although you have the steering wheel in front of you, often you fell more like a well-informed passenger"
I don't want to knock Ferrari for making it, as it's clearly a truly exceptional vehicle, but we should remember that it's Ferrari's job to push what it's possible to do with cars.
Electronically controlled differentials and thousand-click traction control systems aren't mandatory and if these kind of things put you off what has classically been defined as a driver's car, it's still possible to buy vehicles without this assistance, and it will be for a long time to come yet.
Electronically controlled differentials and thousand-click traction control systems aren't mandatory and if these kind of things put you off what has classically been defined as a driver's car, it's still possible to buy vehicles without this assistance, and it will be for a long time to come yet.
With the increasing number of high end sports cars and super cars available only with automatic gearboxes, I wonder if a market will develop for after-market manual conversions. If I was in the market for a 200k Ferrari, I'd happily pay someone 20 grand to stick a proper gearbox in it.
Edited by kambites on Friday 17th December 11:28
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