Mondeo conundrum, advice needed

[BeeRoad]

ROBTVR said:

BeeRoad said:

Why pay £10k for a 2007 1.8 Mondeo with 55k on it when you can have a 2009 2.0 one with 11k on it?

http://www.motorpoint.co.uk/%28S%28p32fqg2vemtqi0m...

Fair point but im a sucker for toys and comforts so for me the Edge just would flick my switch, My daily hack is a 58 plate 1.6tdci Focus Style, bit of a stripped out rep special does what it says on the tin, barely.

You're happy to swap a few toys for 40k less miles and a couple of years left on the warranty versus no warranty? You really must like electric seats!

[ROBTVR]

philoldsmobile said:

Pferdestarke said:

A friend has the 1.8 derv. He says it's underpowered for the weight which i can believe.

If you get it, remap it!

it takes more than remapping... if it were that easy, Ford would have put the 'remap' on it out of the factory.

I think you could say that about nearly every manufacturer, Without doubt manufacturers have to weigh up performance over economy for the masses. It surely is up tto the individual what they want to compromise, that said digging deeper into remapping the engine in question, looks more likely that it improves economy, driveability and performance. how true? not sure

[philoldsmobile]

so why didn't they? i've seen many remapped diesels, and they all come unstuck sooner or later. ford put the engine at 125 BHP because something gave when it was 130..

no manufacturer will deliberately dumb down the power output of a car. there are so many cowboy derv remaps out there its unreal.

NEVER buy a remapped diesel, its a huge can of worms, even if the map has been reverted to stock.if you want more power, stop being a skinflint, and buy the more powerful version.

Edited by philoldsmobile on Monday 3rd January 00:23

[Fox-]

philoldsmobile said:

no manufacturer will deliberately dumb down the power output of a car.

Yes they will - they do it to position the model in the range.

Look at the BMW 1 Series. They do a 116d, a 118d and a 120d. In reality they are all the 2.0 diesel in different states of tune. They wouldnt give the 118d any more power because then it makes the 120d pointless, for example.

The 1.8 TDCi is 125bhp so that the 2.0 TDCi still has a comfortable sales level.

[ROBTVR]

BeeRoad said:

ROBTVR said:

BeeRoad said:

Why pay £10k for a 2007 1.8 Mondeo with 55k on it when you can have a 2009 2.0 one with 11k on it?

http://www.motorpoint.co.uk/%28S%28p32fqg2vemtqi0m...

Fair point but im a sucker for toys and comforts so for me the Edge just would flick my switch, My daily hack is a 58 plate 1.6tdci Focus Style, bit of a stripped out rep special does what it says on the tin, barely.

You're happy to swap a few toys for 40k less miles and a couple of years left on the warranty versus no warranty? You really must like electric seats!

I can understand where you are coming from, and to some people i may seem like im throwing good money away, but if it was basic motoring i was after i'd buy something Korean with more warranty than you can shake a stick at. DVD's in the back to keep the kids quiet, up front, sat nav and parking sensors for the misses , worth its weight in gold. Plus the dealer is throwing a years warranty and a free service in with the deal

[Pferdestarke]

philoldsmobile said:

so why didn't they? i've seen many remapped diesels, and they all come unstuck sooner or later. ford put the engine at 125 BHP because something gave when it was 130..

no manufacturer will deliberately dumb down the power output of a car. there are so many cowboy derv remaps out there its unreal.

Why didn't they? Did you read our posts? It's all about balancing the performance, cost, output, emissions of the car with the needs of the average consumer. Surely you see that?

As for all remapped cars 'coming unstuck', they simply do not. Where are all the horror stories you speak of? Sure there are a few but many are trouble free hence the size of the remap market.

Are you suggesting Ford are working with a 3% safety factor in their engines i.e. all components are working at 97% each time full power is used?

Most components would easily take +30% without failing.

Edited by Pferdestarke on Monday 3rd January 00:30

[BeeRoad]

ROBTVR said:

BeeRoad said:

ROBTVR said:

BeeRoad said:

Why pay £10k for a 2007 1.8 Mondeo with 55k on it when you can have a 2009 2.0 one with 11k on it?

http://www.motorpoint.co.uk/%28S%28p32fqg2vemtqi0m...

Fair point but im a sucker for toys and comforts so for me the Edge just would flick my switch, My daily hack is a 58 plate 1.6tdci Focus Style, bit of a stripped out rep special does what it says on the tin, barely.

You're happy to swap a few toys for 40k less miles and a couple of years left on the warranty versus no warranty? You really must like electric seats!

I can understand where you are coming from, and to some people i may seem like im throwing good money away, but if it was basic motoring i was after i'd buy something Korean with more warranty than you can shake a stick at. DVD's in the back to keep the kids quiet, up front, sat nav and parking sensors for the misses , worth its weight in gold. Plus the dealer is throwing a years warranty and a free service in with the deal

Your money, your choice old chap! (Though a TomTom, a set of aftermarket reversing sensors and rear seat DVD kit would only cost £500. . . . . .)

[philoldsmobile]

Pferdestarke said:

philoldsmobile said:

so why didn't they? i've seen many remapped diesels, and they all come unstuck sooner or later. ford put the engine at 125 BHP because something gave when it was 130..

no manufacturer will deliberately dumb down the power output of a car. there are so many cowboy derv remaps out there its unreal.

Why didn't they? Did you read our posts? It's all about balancing the performance, cost, output, emissions of the car with the needs of the average consumer. Surely you see that?

As for all remapped cars 'coming unstuck', they simply do not. Where are all the horror stories you speak of? Sure there are a few but many are trouble free hence the size of the remap market.

Are you suggesting Ford are working with a 3% safety factor in their engines i.e. all components are working at 98% each time full power is used?

Most components would easily take +30% without failing.

cracked pistons, blown turbos head gasket failure, I've seen it all. they seem trouble free for 20 or 30,000 miles, by which time they have generally passed through a couple of sets of hands, and the carnage is rarely attributed to the map. but over boosting and over fueling inevitably leads to problems, and only a re mapper will try and advise you otherwise.

If i had a pound for every time i've had to fix a mapper bodgers old mess, i'd be rather a lot richer..

Edited by philoldsmobile on Monday 3rd January 00:36

[Pferdestarke]

philoldsmobile said:

cracked pistons, blown turbos head gasket failure, I've seen it all. they seem trouble free for 20 or 30,000 miles, by which time they have generally passed through a couple of sets of hands, and the carnage is rarely attributed to the map. but over boosting and over fueling inevitably leads to problems, and only a re mapper will try and advise you otherwise.

So what about making room for the 1.8, 2.0, a V6 variant within the range? As stated above, why do BMW use the same lump in the 116, 118, 120 and 123d?

Different outputs appeal to consumers as is proven by the choice given by manufacturers.

Many of your ailments above are common factors on non-remapped engines

[ROBTVR]

[/quote]

Your money, your choice old chap! (Though a TomTom, a set of aftermarket reversing sensors and rear seat DVD kit would only cost £500. . . . . .)

[/quote]

I can see it now, 09 plate boggo mondeo on the drive, Tomtom stuck to the window, parking sensors dangling from the bootlid by the wires that connect them, and a couple of elasticated harvard screens strapped to the headrests . Next thing to buy would be a set of blue headlight bulbs to mimic xenons.

[Pferdestarke]

Don't forget the chrome spinning wheel trims!

Edited by Pferdestarke on Monday 3rd January 00:47

[jbi]

ROBTVR said:

philoldsmobile said:

I dont even want to know what anyone has been driving to make a 1.8 TDCI seem anything other than a horrible little rancid clatter box..

Edited by philoldsmobile on Sunday 2nd January 23:43

I really didn't find it very noisy at all on test drive today, may be a different beast in the Focus, and although no racehorse it wasn't horrendous, I know Im making myself sound like a bit of a nanny driver, believe me im not, Ive Had plenty of poke in the form of a TVR chim, R53 cooper s and the beemer dont go bad either but didnt feel the 1.8 was underpowered considering the weight. All opinions will be taken on board and thankyou all for the comments

It does 0-60 in 10.4 seconds...

That's pretty bad

[terzo]

Fox- said:

philoldsmobile said:

no manufacturer will deliberately dumb down the power output of a car.

Yes they will - they do it to position the model in the range.

Look at the BMW 1 Series. They do a 116d, a 118d and a 120d. In reality they are all the 2.0 diesel in different states of tune. They wouldnt give the 118d any more power because then it makes the 120d pointless, for example.

The 1.8 TDCi is 125bhp so that the 2.0 TDCi still has a comfortable sales level.

Not really true, the 120d has a bigger turbo. Someone else mentioned the 123d which is a different kettle of fish with it being a twin-turbo. Also the 116d has no oil cooling & smaller brakes, the 120d has a more heavy duty gearbox and has different injectors to the 116/8d.

[ROBTVR]

jbi said:

ROBTVR said:

philoldsmobile said:

I dont even want to know what anyone has been driving to make a 1.8 TDCI seem anything other than a horrible little rancid clatter box..

Edited by philoldsmobile on Sunday 2nd January 23:43

I really didn't find it very noisy at all on test drive today, may be a different beast in the Focus, and although no racehorse it wasn't horrendous, I know Im making myself sound like a bit of a nanny driver, believe me im not, Ive Had plenty of poke in the form of a TVR chim, R53 cooper s and the beemer dont go bad either but didnt feel the 1.8 was underpowered considering the weight. All opinions will be taken on board and thankyou all for the comments

It does 0-60 in 10.4 seconds...

That's pretty bad

Only if you are at santa pod! Ringing its neck at every set of lights, those days are long gone, been there done that and lucky to keep my license clean for twenty years, when i wanted fast cars i bought them. I know my previous posts have suggested me looking to remap for more power contradicts everything i have just said but its not all about what corsa im chasing between roundabouts, it's looking for an alternative if i find the 1.8 lacking oomph occasionally and this car is specced just the way i want it at my price range

[philoldsmobile]

the alternative is to buy the 2.0


decide whats important to you, toys or power, but if you plump for the 1.8 accept its limitations for what it is.

Edited by philoldsmobile on Monday 3rd January 01:01

[carmadgaz]

philoldsmobile said:

no manufacturer will deliberately dumb down the power output of a car.

Mini Range. Aren't the One and Cooper an identical engine but the cooper has a different Map?

[philoldsmobile]

nope. injectors and exhaust, not to mention suspension and gear ratios.

Edited by philoldsmobile on Monday 3rd January 01:08

[ROBTVR]

Thankfully i have found a promising review from auto express:-

You're in - Car Reviews: First Drives
Ford Mondeo
Ford Mondeo 1.8 TDCi Zetec
We like the 2.0-litre diesel in Ford's Mondeo, but how does the 1.8 TDCi Zetec model compare?
Ford Mondeo 1.8 TDCi Zetec
Auto Express Car Reviews
Text: Sam Hardy / Photos: Pete Gibson
October 2007

* Rating:
*

With a range-topping diesel in the shape of a 138bhp 2.0-litre TDCi unit, it’s easy to overlook the smaller 1.8 TDCi engine in the Ford Mondeo line-up.

However, with 123bhp and the same 320Nm of torque as its more expensive brother, the 1.8-litre looks good on paper. And the rest of the figures impress, with combined fuel economy of nearly 50mpg and CO2 emissions of 154g/km. So, how does it stack up on the road?

It’s certainly a strong performer. The engine is mated to a six-speed manual gearbox, which makes it a capable motorway cruiser with decent response even at high speeds. Factor in excellent refinement and a comfortable driving position, and you have a brilliant long-distance companion.

The engine pulls hard once it gets past the 2,500rpm mark, and thanks to an overboost facility, which briefly increases the peak torque figure to 340Nm under full throttle, overtaking moves are dispatched with ease.

Fine steering, ride and handling also ensure the Mondeo is great fun to drive on the open road. In town, the engine can lab­our at low speeds in second gear. Still, it’s hard to argue with 48.7mpg combined economy and a company car tax band of 20 per cent. These figures manage to better those of the 2.0 TDCi – which returns 47.9mpg and sits in the 21 per cent band.

Our model was also fitted with a couple of highlights from the options list. The £1,600 DVD sat-nav system has a simple touchscreen display and includes a superb Sony stereo, while adaptive headlamps, which turn with the steered wheels, greatly improve night vision. The latter is perhaps a better-value option, too, at £350.

So which engine should you go for? Well, they’re both excellent. If you want a little more performance and are prepared to pay an extra £400, the 2.0-litre is ideal. However, the 1.8 TDCi certainly isn’t a poorer choice.


Read more: http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/carreviews/firstdrive...

[HellDiver]

philoldsmobile said:

cracked pistons, blown turbos head gasket failure, I've seen it all. they seem trouble free for 20 or 30,000 miles, by which time they have generally passed through a couple of sets of hands, and the carnage is rarely attributed to the map. but over boosting and over fueling inevitably leads to problems, and only a re mapper will try and advise you otherwise.

If i had a pound for every time i've had to fix a mapper bodgers old mess, i'd be rather a lot richer..

You're tarring all remaps with the same brush, which is just silly.

£250 remaps from Bob down the road who arrives with laptop under his arm and flashes a remap he got on a DVD from EBay is very different to someone like Superchips, REVO, DMS and the like who produce excellent remaps. Some of the bigger companies' maps are considerably better than the factory maps that a lot of cars ship with.

Your 125hp 1.8TDCI Mondeo will leave the factory that way, because it has to account for variable fuel quality, and most importantly servicing schedule. The factory map will be 'tuned down' to account for 'Mr Minicab' or 'Soccer Mom' who will do 15k of stop-start driving round the town, and 'forget' to get it serviced until well past it's schedule.

They also account for the Avis driver who drives the thing flat out from 20 miles on the clock - rentals don't get serviced until 16k when they go off fleet and in to the dealer networks for resale as 'Ford Direct'.

If you take those variables out, then you can safely assume you can get the full potential of the engine. 150-160hp from the same engine will be fine, if the car is serviced on, or before it's regular schedule.

I had a factory remapped car - my diesel Lancer had the 170hp Ralliart map on it from new. Ran the 140hp VW 2.0TDI 140hp engine, but was on a 12,500 mile interval on 507.00 oil. Compare that to the same lump in a Golf on 20-30k intervals on the same oil, now you should see where the difference comes in.

[anonymous-user]

Not forgetting that manufacturers also have emissions targets to hit, getting it remapped by a quality mapper will bring benefits that the manufacturers simply cannot provide from new.