What power is sensible for the road?

[ewenm]

LeeThr said:

ewenm said:

LeeThr said:

marcosgt said:

It doesn't matter as long as the car can put it down in a tractable and docile manner.

Having 1000BHP doesn't mean you can't tootle along at 10MPH in traffic.

Power's not the problem, it's how you've obtained it and how the car delivers it.

M

Yes I know that, but with the clutch you would need to handle that power how long are you gonna lost stop start traffic?

You won't be putting all that power (and torque) through the clutch when in traffic unless it all comes at 1500rpm.

I didnt mean like that, I ment the clutch you would end up with would be extremly heavy, and being on and off that for an age during traffic would be a daunting task.

Possibly, although the road legal high power Audi dragster that was on Fifth Gear a while back seemed to be well behaved and drivable in town.

[130R]

An RS6 Avant has 571 hp but it's not particularly mental for the road, it just doesn't stop accelerating hard at pretty much any speed. 571 hp in a Lotus would be slightly different.

[J4CKO]

marcosgt said:

It doesn't matter as long as the car can put it down in a tractable and docile manner.

Having 1000BHP doesn't mean you can't tootle along at 10MPH in traffic.

Power's not the problem, it's how you've obtained it and how the car delivers it.

M

I agree to a certain extent but a normal 200 bhp car will exceed every speed limit in the land within about 9 seconds, not wanting to sound like "Brake" but once you get past 300 bhp in an average weight car it is differing degrees of overkill, if it spends most time "tootling" that's fine but when you do open it up you are so far away from legality it is such a risk to your licence.

I think we have lost our way a bit, the German power battle where we have 500/600 bhp monsters, that make all that power only to have it show as a flashing light on the dash until silly speeds (Unless 4wd), these kind of cars are epic but too competent and like a Eurofighter, that without the computers is unflyable for the pilot, for most, a 600 bhp Merc without the electronics would be a recipe for exiting the road very quickly, like my dads old boss that binned 2 of the original XJR's when 300 odd bhp didnt mix with a wet road.


Its probably more down to bhp/tonne and a host of other factors.

[LeeThr]

ewenm said:

LeeThr said:

ewenm said:

LeeThr said:

marcosgt said:

It doesn't matter as long as the car can put it down in a tractable and docile manner.

Having 1000BHP doesn't mean you can't tootle along at 10MPH in traffic.

Power's not the problem, it's how you've obtained it and how the car delivers it.

M

Yes I know that, but with the clutch you would need to handle that power how long are you gonna lost stop start traffic?

You won't be putting all that power (and torque) through the clutch when in traffic unless it all comes at 1500rpm.

I didnt mean like that, I ment the clutch you would end up with would be extremly heavy, and being on and off that for an age during traffic would be a daunting task.

Fair enough, does come down to the driver at the end of the day as well. I was just going on from what ive experianced. My little pug has a fairly heavy clutch for what it is but its fine, I did notice it a bit after climing out of my instructors fiesta. I really dont notice it anymore and completly forgot about it, untill the other night when my mate sat in it and put his foot on the clutch commenting it was fairly heavy. I do however know how heavy the clutch on my dad's Evo is, and I really would strugle to drive that around town. Im sure after a few trips Id get used to it. But the first few would be hell and my left leg would be significantally bigger than my right

Possibly, although the road legal high power Audi dragster that was on Fifth Gear a while back seemed to be well behaved and drivable in town.

[msheaven]

maniac0796 said:

Urban Sports said:

Surely in this country you only need enough power to get to 70mph

But it's how fast you can get there

This!

[ewenm]

LeeThr said:

ewenm said:

LeeThr said:

ewenm said:

LeeThr said:

marcosgt said:

It doesn't matter as long as the car can put it down in a tractable and docile manner.

Having 1000BHP doesn't mean you can't tootle along at 10MPH in traffic.

Power's not the problem, it's how you've obtained it and how the car delivers it.

M

Yes I know that, but with the clutch you would need to handle that power how long are you gonna lost stop start traffic?

You won't be putting all that power (and torque) through the clutch when in traffic unless it all comes at 1500rpm.

I didnt mean like that, I ment the clutch you would end up with would be extremly heavy, and being on and off that for an age during traffic would be a daunting task.

Possibly, although the road legal high power Audi dragster that was on Fifth Gear a while back seemed to be well behaved and drivable in town.

Fair enough, does come down to the driver at the end of the day as well. I was just going on from what ive experianced. My little pug has a fairly heavy clutch for what it is but its fine, I did notice it a bit after climing out of my instructors fiesta. I really dont notice it anymore and completly forgot about it, untill the other night when my mate sat in it and put his foot on the clutch commenting it was fairly heavy. I do however know how heavy the clutch on my dad's Evo is, and I really would strugle to drive that around town. Im sure after a few trips Id get used to it. But the first few would be hell and my left leg would be significantally bigger than my right

A lot of it can be down to clutch setup though - the clutch feel in the Caterham improved substantially when I replaced the cable and re-routed it slightly. It went from surprisingly heavy to quite light with a very simple change.

[LeeThr]

J4CKO said:

marcosgt said:

It doesn't matter as long as the car can put it down in a tractable and docile manner.

Having 1000BHP doesn't mean you can't tootle along at 10MPH in traffic.

Power's not the problem, it's how you've obtained it and how the car delivers it.

M

I agree to a certain extent but a normal 200 bhp car will exceed every speed limit in the land within about 9 seconds, not wanting to sound like "Brake" but once you get past 300 bhp in an average weight car it is differing degrees of overkill, if it spends most time "tootling" that's fine but when you do open it up you are so far away from legality it is such a risk to your licence.

I think we have lost our way a bit, the German power battle where we have 500/600 bhp monsters, that make all that power only to have it show as a flashing light on the dash until silly speeds (Unless 4wd), these kind of cars are epic but too competent and like a Eurofighter, that without the computers is unflyable for the pilot, for most, a 600 bhp Merc without the electronics would be a recipe for exiting the road very quickly, like my dads old boss that binned 2 of the original XJR's when 300 odd bhp didnt mix with a wet road.


Its probably more down to bhp/tonne and a host of other factors.

Yes, I dont think there ever will be a deffinate awnser to this question. Theres just too many factors, which is the reason there are so many different types of car on offer from various manufactures. Stating the obvious I know, but there we go.

[Cock Womble 7]

Urban Sports said:

What does the car weigh?

The Challenger tank has 1200bhp, but its 60-odd tonnes means I doubt you'll ever need a dab of oppo to get the tail back in mid-corner. A 1200bhp Mini on the other hand might be a bit "temperamental".

I have (about) 280bhp/tonne at my disposal, which I usually find to be "adequate" but it can also be frustrating in some circumstances (ie when everyone else seems to have 28bhp/tonne...)

[anonymous-user]

I think at about 150bhp/ton, you have a car which is brisk enough to be fun and can overtake other slower cars ok. Any less than that and a lot of oportunities to overtake become too risky. Any more is not neccessary/useable really in modern road conditions in the UK ;-(

[LeeThr]

ewenm said:

A lot of it can be down to clutch setup though - the clutch feel in the Caterham improved substantially when I replaced the cable and re-routed it slightly. It went from surprisingly heavy to quite light with a very simple change.

True, I think it's just down to the 6 padle clutch thats in it now. When it had the standard clutch in I remember it being a lot lighter.

[jbi]

a modern car should have a minimum of 100hp/ton IMO

it's not fast, but should be enough for safe merging and overtaking

[J4CKO]

130R said:

An RS6 Avant has 571 hp but it's not particularly mental for the road, it just doesn't stop accelerating hard at pretty much any speed. 571 hp in a Lotus would be slightly different.

Yes, that's the point, it has been tamed and refined so you don't really feel it the same, a lot of the sensation has gone, the noise, the mechanical feel but make no mistake, even if you are only feeling acceleration you are still going very, very fast.

Paqrt of my issue with huge and powerful off roaders is the way something that big and heavy that only requires one foot and usually one hand to operate can gather that much kinetic energy that quickly, same for all fast cars but it seems very obvious in those things being so tall and not usually driven by enthusiasts, my youngest got picked up by a mum the other day in a brand new Cayenne Turbo, she gave it a little blip down the cul de sac to turn round and it just seemed totally inappropriate for the road, thing is, from inside, probably very little drama, from outside the size and noise were a little alarming.

[jbi]

J4CKO said:

my youngest got picked up by a mum the other day in a brand new Cayenne Turbo, she gave it a little blip down the cul de sac to turn round and it just seemed totally inappropriate for the road, thing is, from inside, probably very little drama, from outside the size and noise were a little alarming.

good grief, are you a man or a mouse?

[xr287]

Around the speed of a 911/M3/C63 is about all you really need I think. Anything more than that and you will barely get the opportunity to use it and when you do it could ver quickly remove your licence.

Having something like a 458 would be great but I can't help thinking it would be better to take that £200,000 buy a £50/60k 911/M3/C63 and the leftovers will buy a fantastic track day car and plenty of running costs and you would be able to go much faster in it than you ever would in the 458.

[Yodafone]

For day to day use, I would say 100bhp with about 170torque is good enough for every day use as long as the weight is not more then 1200kg.

I say this because I had use of something with the above figures for about 90k miles over 2 and half years and never really found I needed any more.

Only bad thing was the 6 speed box, 6th would struggle on a steep incline on the motorway at 65mph.

[ShadownINja]

For a typical family car (in terms of size and weight), up to about 450bhp with decent tyres and traction control. 600 upwards can be dangerous especially if the conditions aren't perfect (damp road, leaves, crumbly surface etc) and there's no traction control as you're accelerating but also because others don't expect you to accelerate so rapidly - I've gone to overtake several cars on a motorway and the Primera driver in front also had a similar idea to do it... and shat himself when he noticed how quickly I was approaching on his offside (specifically by moving to the right slowly and darting back to the left).

[MADRod]

RWD cossie wil said:

About 400Bhp is entertaining, but you can NEVER have too much power

Thats not true 640bhp was probably my best & fastest conversion under road conditions. Above this the approach speeds get silly & not enjoyable & you simply cant use the grunt. I have lots more Power now but only to run high speeds under controlled conditions but on the road my car is now very much a compromise.

[Sline]

I think it also comes down to the driver as much as the car for instance imo my Tuscan has simply far to much power for me, im sure in the right hands it could may well be to little power but i can admit im no stig.

I think for your average joe 150bhp and curb weight of just over a ton is sensible for the road (in an fwd which most cars are) Its pretty much bang on what my Racing Puma had and that was both perfect for the road and track. I know if i were to lap both round a track in my hands the Puma would be quicker. I got to do a couple of track days in the Puma and it ran rings round pretty much everything on track, Sadly im not brave enough to take the Tuscan!

[vrooom]

It need whatever power to move your fat ass in large barge with full of toys.

[Dave J]

Id say 350bhp/ton inc driver is adequate especially with rear wheel drive