Is an S4 the only option?

[MrOrange]

Risotto said:

I'm not saying I disagree but a lot depends on what has/hasn't been done. That advert you posted might be a bargain if the track control arms, clutch, RMS, rads, condensers, disks, pads, tyres, etc have been attended to recently. Could be an absolute money pit if they all need replacing in the next 12 months though...

Edited by Risotto on Tuesday 4th January 13:09

Quite true. The same could be said of a V8 S4 if the discs, rads, belts, suspension need doing. I think the point I was trying to make was that a German Saloon V8 could easily cost more than a flat-6 "Sportscar" due to extra weight, more complexity. It would also be fair to say that the Porker would depreciate a lot less over that time and, aside from the stigma of driving a Porker, it will be a better drive, better mpg and more reliable. Note: the C4 has bugger all front-boot space.

[nottyash]

Lefty said:

nottyash said:

RobM77 said:

It might be worth researching the 4WD systems that the various cars have. I don't know much about this area, but someone posted a video recently of a test where they put various 4WD cars on a ramp and removed/reduced traction from one end, and most wouldn't climb the ramp, and just sat spinning the traction reduced wheels instead.

My Dad has an X type Jag 3.0 sport now and that does exactly that.

IIRC the early x-types were proper permamanent 4x4...

Of course, it's still possible to get cross-axled and get nowhere. I've seen a land rover 90 stuck in a flat grassy field because it didn't have axle diff lockers...(near-bald tyres and an incompetent driver didn't help...)

I borrowed his car in the snow and couldnt get it up his drive as its quite steep. The rear wheels just spun. Its a 2001 car.

[coley20]

Not sure how cheap they are yet, what about an Insigna VXR

[Greg_D]

Lefty said:

nottyash said:

RobM77 said:

It might be worth researching the 4WD systems that the various cars have. I don't know much about this area, but someone posted a video recently of a test where they put various 4WD cars on a ramp and removed/reduced traction from one end, and most wouldn't climb the ramp, and just sat spinning the traction reduced wheels instead.

My Dad has an X type Jag 3.0 sport now and that does exactly that.

IIRC the early x-types were proper permamanent 4x4...

Of course, it's still possible to get cross-axled and get nowhere. I've seen a land rover 90 stuck in a flat grassy field because it didn't have axle diff lockers...(near-bald tyres and an incompetent driver didn't help...)

maybe the early ones. but i have that exact type of car, and can confirm that it is resolutely rwd in the snow.

according to jag,(who i approached about my 'broken' car) it is only 4wd when there is traction when traction is lost then that entire axle is lost until traction is restored. how retarded is that!!!!!

ps, here is the 4wd video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooQRxlChvMw
Greg

[doodles19]

Greg_D said:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooQRxlChvMw
Greg

Thanks!

[Flying machine]

MrOrange said:

Risotto said:

I'm not saying I disagree but a lot depends on what has/hasn't been done. That advert you posted might be a bargain if the track control arms, clutch, RMS, rads, condensers, disks, pads, tyres, etc have been attended to recently. Could be an absolute money pit if they all need replacing in the next 12 months though...

Edited by Risotto on Tuesday 4th January 13:09

Quite true. The same could be said of a V8 S4 if the discs, rads, belts, suspension need doing. I think the point I was trying to make was that a German Saloon V8 could easily cost more than a flat-6 "Sportscar" due to extra weight, more complexity. It would also be fair to say that the Porker would depreciate a lot less over that time and, aside from the stigma of driving a Porker, it will be a better drive, better mpg and more reliable. Note: the C4 has bugger all front-boot space.

All true - 996 is a great car (biased view of course) and has cost me a lot less to run than my previous scooby. Not that good on snow in my experience though. Might be good on winter tyres...

[ALawson]

So what are the potential pitfalls of a 11-13k S4? Only asking as at the moment I am talking myself out of most Merc, BMW & Audi saloons/estates at this price range due to the potential large costs.

Would I be correct in saying apart for the radiators the S4 is fairly bullet proof.

Wouldn't the MPS 6 be the same mpg as the S4?

[gizlaroc]

98C4S said:

Not that this helps you at all, I had an S4, I sold it after 3 months, was quite possibly the most boring car I have ever owned, and I've owned a load!

Must it be 4WD?

I'm the same, I so wanted an S4 for so long, then when I got it I knew on the 3 hour journey home that I hated it.

It is the worse car I have ever had the misfortune to own. I think it was the fact it was a manual that really ruined it for me, crap ratios, terrible clutch, pedal heights all different so uncomfy to drive for more than an hour, if it was an auto it would have been much better.
The heavy front end I could live with, ok it handles like a boat, but it so what, most Audis do, but it was the whole package where it failed, you have to be a real Audi fanboy to see past all the niggles as they certainly outweigh the positives.

[TonyHetherington]

ALawson said:

Would I be correct in saying apart for the radiators the S4 is fairly bullet proof.

Pretty much. And even the radiators aren't silly money to have fitted. Coil packs have been known to go - they're £20 (and only one goes at a time - so it runs on 7 cylinders til you get it fixed).

Suspension (swing arm) is less common, but has happened (to me) which was essentially creaky joints and it was cheaper to replace the whole lot - about £600 that cost me (both fronts).

They drink a fair bit of oil, but other than that are pretty good.

[TonyHetherington]

gizlaroc said:

98C4S said:

Not that this helps you at all, I had an S4, I sold it after 3 months, was quite possibly the most boring car I have ever owned, and I've owned a load!

Must it be 4WD?

I'm the same, I so wanted an S4 for so long, then when I got it I knew on the 3 hour journey home that I hated it.

It is the worse car I have ever had the misfortune to own. I think it was the fact it was a manual that really ruined it for me, crap ratios, terrible clutch, pedal heights all different so uncomfy to drive for more than an hour, if it was an auto it would have been much better.
The heavy front end I could live with, ok it handles like a boat, but it so what, most Audis do, but it was the whole package where it failed, you have to be a real Audi fanboy to see past all the niggles as they certainly outweigh the positives.

I'm certainly not a fan boy, though do like the car. But all of that is stuff you test a car to find out. It doesn't make it a bad car, it just means you didn't investigate properly. You knew on the journey home you didn't want it - was that the first time you'd driven one?

I agree entirely about the gears - mine's a manual too - the pedals mean you can't heel and toe, and the ratios are all wrong. I never use 5th gear, and 6th is too short for motorway cruising.

Aside from the gearing, I honestly can't think of another niggle. To put it in persepctive I've owned Elise, Exige, hire Caterhams to do track days in and am just about to start a season racing in the Trackday trophy, so I certainly rate steering feel and chassis highly in a car. Just not this car. It's a 2tonne Audi to cruise in.

[Pentoman]

Audi A6 (or allroad) 4.2, or S6?
Merc ML55 AMG?
Cayenne Turbo?
Tuned calibra Turbo?

At least one of those suggestions is going to be totally wrong.

[Tuvra]

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/AUDI-S3-QUATTRO-BLACK-2006-2...

[GravelBen]

There are some good Subaru options depending on your priorities - better driving involvement than the Audi and probably a better ride on rough roads, but interiors not quite as luxurious.

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2184991.htm

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2277850.htm
(they made them in more subtle colours as well)

or even better,

http://www.litchfieldimports.co.uk/subaru_legacy.a...

Edited by GravelBen on Wednesday 5th January 10:00

[Rags]

b5 rs4?

[TTwiggy]

Pentoman said:

Audi A6 (or allroad) 4.2, or S6?
Merc ML55 AMG?
Cayenne Turbo?
Tuned calibra Turbo?

At least one of those suggestions is going to be totally wrong.

Cheers - I have thought about the S6, but manual versions, while they exist, are rarer than hens' teeth, and I don't really want another auto box.

[TTwiggy]

Rags said:

b5 rs4?

lovely - but every example I've seen has stellar mileage.

[TTwiggy]

GravelBen said:

There are some good Subaru options depending on your priorities - better driving involvement than the Audi and probably a better ride on rough roads, but interiors not quite as luxurious.

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2184991.htm

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2277850.htm
(they made them in more subtle colours as well)

or even better,

http://www.litchfieldimports.co.uk/subaru_legacy.a...

Edited by GravelBen on Wednesday 5th January 10:00

I'm sure these are very capable cars, but to me they look like Westwood has pimped Postman Pat's van - sorry, but thanks for the suggestion anyway.

Edited by TTwiggy on Wednesday 5th January 11:07

[Spoof]

B6 S4, V70R - Had both, loved both, nowt wrong with either. Volvo is quicker, more roomy, has better seats and stereo, but the S4 is built like a tank and arguably has the better AWD system.
Lots of pros and cons for both, but they're both brilliant cars with a relatively low cost/performance ratio.

[u13rr1]

Save yourself the best part of £10k and see if you can't get hold of a manual Passat W8. Understated, practical and unbelievably well-built. Closer to 7 seconds to 60 but it'll do 90% of what the S4 does for less than a third of the cost.

I miss mine