Had a prang. Need your help PHers!

[jimxms]

IainT said:

Should be cut and dried. Unless the Audi numpty claims to have been in your lane and you in the right one and trying to exit. THen, without witnesses, it's anyone's guess what'll happen.

You really should have taken a photo on camera phone before moving the cars though although I can understand giving priority to getting your car and wife/child to safety.

Yeah I've been kicking myself for being a bit naive, but I just didn't want to get rear ended with the family in the car.

Only thing that makes me feel better is that his near-new Audi came off much worse.

[Exoticaholic]

Looking at your diagram, I agree with the other posters that you should change the dashed lines for unbroken lines.

Also it would be worth marking point of impact.

And slightly off-track, if you haven't a camera in the car, then get a cheap one and leave in the glovebox or boot as it will help establish facts at the scene. Due to (several) pictures taken at the scene (and despite this, one driver gave me false details), I have had three claims all in my favour by my insurers.

Fight all the way if insurers decide to go 50/50!

[JonnyFive]

Nimbus said:

from your diagram it looks to me like you drifted to your left, rather than staying specifically in the lane you were in..

both 'in the wrong', and insurance will settle 50/50 as thats the easiest for them..

sorry

Seriously?

Have you driven before?

This kind of lane is either to the left or to the right and the left lane is ONLY left, where the Audi came from into OPs lane.

[stumpage]

jimxms said:

Unedited version:



The road that branches off to the Left is the sliproad to the M25. The road branches off to the right is the A13.

At the traffic lights (where the blocks represented our cars are on the earlier diagram) the left hand lane had M25 ONLY signposted on floor, middle lane had M25/A13 on floor, right lane had A13 ONLY on floor.

I was in middle lane, so my understanding is that I could have either joined the M25 in the right hand 'fast' lane of the sliproad, or gone round to the A13.

The other driver was in the left hand lane, so should have only taken the M25 sliproad in the left-hand lane?

Edited by jimxms on Wednesday 5th January 08:52

I stand corrected now I've seen the unedited version.

[Petrolhead_Rich]

Some very worrying advice on here about how the OP is in the wrong based on his diagram, kinda explains why I have to do an emergency stop at every other roundabout as people meander their way around....

Seriously, they "Drifted Left", "were in the wrong lane" etc... I suggest you all go and take a driving lesson or three, then maybe a test, then drive around for a bit (carefully) and see how the real world works.......



This is how a roundabout works (with the lane markings given in the example):



Imagine Audi Mong is the Green Line and OP is the Blue Line...

Now please, explain to me how it is that the OP is in any way to blame???

[Some Gump]

Thanks for the unedited pic.

IMO, you;re 100% NOT at fault. Hius lane was left only, your lane was left or straight. If he cut you up that badly, there is no way anyone can reasonably say that you should have been looking left at that point - most drivers would be looking forward / right to check for upcoming hazards / their exit.

[Petrolhead_Rich]

jimxms said:

Unedited version:

If you hover over satellite you have the option to untick "show labels" in google maps, this will show the road markings more clearly!

Also shows some cars using the roundabout correctly (Labelled)!

Edited by Petrolhead_Rich on Wednesday 5th January 09:40

[anonymous-user]

Petrolhead_Rich said:

Some very worrying advice on here about how the OP is in the wrong based on his diagram, kinda explains why I have to do an emergency stop at every other roundabout as people meander their way around....

Seriously, they "Drifted Left", "were in the wrong lane" etc... I suggest you all go and take a driving lesson or three, then maybe a test, then drive around for a bit (carefully) and see how the real world works.......



This is how a roundabout works (with the lane markings given in the example):



Imagine Audi Mong is the Green Line and OP is the Blue Line...

Now please, explain to me how it is that the OP is in any way to blame???

I was reading through the thread, same as you going WTF to myself. The OP is 100% correct.

It's scary that anyone can think the other guy was right to cross 2 lanes of a roundabout exit and the OP was wrong??

It really does explain why I constantly find myself covering the brake and on edge all the time on roundabouts.

[julian64]

Petrolhead_Rich said:

Some very worrying advice on here about how the OP is in the wrong based on his diagram, kinda explains why I have to do an emergency stop at every other roundabout as people meander their way around....

Seriously, they "Drifted Left", "were in the wrong lane" etc... I suggest you all go and take a driving lesson or three, then maybe a test, then drive around for a bit (carefully) and see how the real world works.......



This is how a roundabout works (with the lane markings given in the example):



Imagine Audi Mong is the Green Line and OP is the Blue Line...

Now please, explain to me how it is that the OP is in any way to blame???

Throwing insults is not big or clever. You are so far up on your high horse you are not actually reading the thread in an attempt to score cheap points off people trying to give honest advice.

If you re-read you will see that everyone seems to have agreed with the op, but have commented that his first drawing sent to the insurer does not give justice to his argument. I think thats fair comment.

Telling everyone to take a driving test who doesn't agree with you isn't any sort of worthy argument IMHO. You might find a few people on this thread have been driving a considerable time with no accidents to their name .

[JonnyFive]

MSTRBKR said:

Petrolhead_Rich said:

Some very worrying advice on here about how the OP is in the wrong based on his diagram, kinda explains why I have to do an emergency stop at every other roundabout as people meander their way around....

Seriously, they "Drifted Left", "were in the wrong lane" etc... I suggest you all go and take a driving lesson or three, then maybe a test, then drive around for a bit (carefully) and see how the real world works.......



This is how a roundabout works (with the lane markings given in the example):



Imagine Audi Mong is the Green Line and OP is the Blue Line...

Now please, explain to me how it is that the OP is in any way to blame???

I was reading through the thread, same as you going WTF to myself. The OP is 100% correct.

It's scary that anyone can think the other guy was right to cross 2 lanes of a roundabout exit and the OP was wrong??

It really does explain why I constantly find myself covering the brake and on edge all the time on roundabouts.

These people call themselves petrol heads and don't understand how a roundabout works.

Its worrying.

[carreauchompeur]

OP, this isn't a troll or devil's advocate question, but why couldn't you avoid Audi Mong/stop in time? Might be worth adding detail to the claim- If this was a gradual manoeuvre or they were indicating it might sway towards 50/50, however if they just swung across your bows and you were unable to avoid it becomes a bit clearer cut.

At the end of the day, they were completely in the wrong, but you need to sell it as a fait accompli to your insurers to prevent any rolling over!

[andy43]

If the Audi entered roundabout at the bottom left, in the lefthand lane, and you were in his blindspot, and he wasn't, er, the most confident driver, he'd just drift round slowly and keep drifting round to the right, sweating and praying noone was in his blindspot. He *should* have been in the righthand lane entering the roundabout, but due to traffic/panic was in the wrong lane as he got onto the roundabout. If there was no great speed difference between you, he may not have seen you at all - phone/satnav/nugget distraction possibly. Whether he indicated or not is irrelevant - he fked up.
The grey-ish area is the lack of lane marking partway round the roundabout - there's no clear direction as to where you go for what turning - if you're a numbnuts, you could wander all over the place.
Note I still think you're in the right 100%, it's just the roundabout here isn't 100% nugget proof. As the nugget proved.

Edited by andy43 on Wednesday 5th January 10:03

[jimxms]

Some Gump said:

Thanks for the unedited pic.

IMO, you;re 100% NOT at fault. Hius lane was left only, your lane was left or straight. If he cut you up that badly, there is no way anyone can reasonably say that you should have been looking left at that point - most drivers would be looking forward / right to check for upcoming hazards / their exit.

That's pretty much exactly what I was doing. He wasn't really on my radar at all until I heard him revving the bks out of his A3 at which point I just assumed he was going to fly past me on my left down the slip road.

A split second later my wife blurted out something to me, by which time he connected with me and began dragging me round to the right with him. I put the anchors on and turned to the right to break away from him and ended up in the middle lane of the road that leads round to the right.

The wife said she didn't think he was indicating at all, but its probably hard to tell given the angle of the connection.


EDIT:
@carreauchompeur - I think the above may cover your question.

Edited by jimxms on Wednesday 5th January 10:07

Edited by jimxms on Wednesday 5th January 10:08

[Petrolhead_Rich]

julian64 said:

Throwing insults is not big or clever. You are so far up on your high horse you are not actually reading the thread in an attempt to score cheap points off people trying to give honest advice.

If you re-read you will see that everyone seems to have agreed with the op, but have commented that his first drawing sent to the insurer does not give justice to his argument. I think thats fair comment.

Telling everyone to take a driving test who doesn't agree with you isn't any sort of worthy argument IMHO. You might find a few people on this thread have been driving a considerable time with no accidents to their name .

Sorry if you felt insulted, but the incorrect advice given was worrying, You said his diagram made it look like he had changed lanes, someone else suggested that his lane was not for exiting there, another poster said he must have drifted left and there was suggestion that he was automatically to blame for running into the back of someone.

nonplussed said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you run into the back of someone I think you're automatically at fault, no matter how badly he was driving. Something about not leaving yourself enough space/time to react. Google it, but I think it's fairly clear cut in most cases.

This worried me that people actually believe that idiots like this Audi driver are driving correctly and that the OP is to blame, as this is blatantly not the case I suggested that people that think this need some driver training, I backed this up with a diagram explaining how a roundabout works.

If you know this and understand it then my post was not directed at you, but if you think the OP was to blame because he changed lanes then you either need to have another look at the diagram or re-read his original post.

I did read the thread, and again I'm sorry if you felt insulted! I'm not at all up on my high horse and welcome advice if it is helpful and accurate, but inaccurate advice which will worry the OP and give him and others visiting the site an incorrect perception of how to use a junction should be questioned. Additionally people who believe the advice need formal training, which was what I said!

[andy43]

jimxms said:

I heard him revving the bks out of his A3 at which point I just assumed he was going to fly past me on my left down the slip road.

Maybe he's not a slow nugget, maybe he was trying to be clever and cheat the traffic then? Fail. Audi A3 1.6 - overdone tints and 18" RS4 ripoffs?

[jimxms]

andy43 said:

Maybe he's not a slow nugget, maybe he was trying to be clever and cheat the traffic then? Fail. Audi A3 1.6 - overdone tints and 18" RS4 ripoffs?

Wish I could say so, but it was an RS3 according to ASKMID in stock attire. He told me he only just bought it too. Which to me reaks of not knowing the car well enough to pull of such a manouver safely.

[Some Gump]

OP, Him "revving the nuts off" is key to an insurer - backs up the theory he's doing a last second lunge. If he's revving, he's not braking - therefore not slowing and you didn't simply rearend him.

[edo]

OP. Speak to Europa Consultants ASAP. (Anniesdad on here). They are fab and will sort you out. Steve is the name of the chap.

[LJTS]

I had a similar accident 12 months ago & the claim has only just been finalised & closed

Without any witnesses & the other party denying any liability you will struggle to get anything better than a 50/50 claim outcome I'm afraid

Good luck though with your claim

[robk84]

I know it doesnt help - however i think this is the M25/A13 roundabout at Dartford, taking you to lakeside. I used to experience it every day, and for some reason, weather it be the road layout, markings layout or what ever it confuses people.

I often see drivers go from Lane 3 at the lights, to the slip road for the m25, its a nightmare.

Google Streetview...

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&amp...

If it is the junction - im assuming you would be in position of the Red Golf (i personally wouldnt choose to go to the m25 from this lane, however thats just from my personal experience) and the Audi driver is the google van, however he goes towards lakeside rather than the m25 (which he is indeed in the wrong)

Edited by robk84 on Wednesday 5th January 10:32