How much does having a safe car bother you?
Discussion
doogz said:
I think you've got slightly carried away with that point.
There's a difference between choosing a safe-ish car, over a not so safe car, and between living in a bubble, scared to go outside.
Oh, and flying is less dangerous than driving.
Yeah, I'm aware of that, and yes I did get a bit carried away with it but I was trying to stretch it a bit to illustrate what I was meaning. I don't drive without a seatbelt and a vintage car without belts would have me itching so I'm not totally devil-may-care. What I was getting at though is while it may be a (relatively minor) consideration, I'm not going to let it stop me from having fun. In the interests of fairness though, maybe I should own up to the fact that I have fitted a roll cage in the Mini, as I feel that driving one without a cage is probably sailing a little too close to the wind. There's a difference between choosing a safe-ish car, over a not so safe car, and between living in a bubble, scared to go outside.
Oh, and flying is less dangerous than driving.
Its a wierd one safety, both our main cars are 5 star rated, Saab 9-3 and new Shape Galaxy, in fact we ordered the Galaxy with ESP and it turned up without it so we knocked it back and waited for one equipped with it, it it isnt these cars we do the bulk of our driving with our 3 kids.
Thats said we have a Fiat 500 (67) and I ride a push bike to work which are complete polar opposites, we have a Metro for teachign the kids to drive but I wouldnt, nowadays dream of givign them one for road use as young drivers are apt to crash through inexperience or stupity, sometimes even just bad luck and I would rather protect my kids with a safe modern car rather than an old heap that wont withstand an accident, how many people are there in wheelchairs or dead from crashes in the past that would be either survivable or cause a lot less injury in a modern car. A friend of ours lost her father and nearly her mum as well in an accident in the seventies, they were in a BMW 5 series, I expect they both would have survived in the modern equivalent.
My criteria for the kids first car, will be 5 star Ncap, all the electronics but the main thing will be full training, skid pans, motorways etc, plus close scrutiny and the threat of losing the car for a month for the sligest transgression, I dont want to go to my kids funerals,
Always makes me laugh when people say they used to drive round, at speed, drunk in an old deathtrap with a massive spike on the steering wheel boss and they are still here as its funny how the ones who did the same back then that died dont post !
So, my take is, do what you can, especially for your family but dont let it stop you doing anything, you can still die in a modern car as you can in a classic but its less likely, dont drive any car differently due to safety, take as much care in your modern as you do in your classic.
Thats said we have a Fiat 500 (67) and I ride a push bike to work which are complete polar opposites, we have a Metro for teachign the kids to drive but I wouldnt, nowadays dream of givign them one for road use as young drivers are apt to crash through inexperience or stupity, sometimes even just bad luck and I would rather protect my kids with a safe modern car rather than an old heap that wont withstand an accident, how many people are there in wheelchairs or dead from crashes in the past that would be either survivable or cause a lot less injury in a modern car. A friend of ours lost her father and nearly her mum as well in an accident in the seventies, they were in a BMW 5 series, I expect they both would have survived in the modern equivalent.
My criteria for the kids first car, will be 5 star Ncap, all the electronics but the main thing will be full training, skid pans, motorways etc, plus close scrutiny and the threat of losing the car for a month for the sligest transgression, I dont want to go to my kids funerals,
Always makes me laugh when people say they used to drive round, at speed, drunk in an old deathtrap with a massive spike on the steering wheel boss and they are still here as its funny how the ones who did the same back then that died dont post !
So, my take is, do what you can, especially for your family but dont let it stop you doing anything, you can still die in a modern car as you can in a classic but its less likely, dont drive any car differently due to safety, take as much care in your modern as you do in your classic.
Johnnytheboy said:
On modern cars, I'd happily lose some structural strength in return for thinner door pillars, so I could actually see out.
I'm well on-board with this. The A pillar's on my Vectra are a massive hinderance. Especially when living in town and going round small roundabouts or pulling out of junctions.As much as we should be looking at statistics, I think it changes one's opinion to have friends who've crashed, or to have crashed yourself. On the road I know one person who was killed in an accident, and three with permanently impaired mobility. Even as a logical and statistically minded person, that does sway me towards safer cars these days (all those accidents were in older cars and apparently would have been fairly minor in a modern car). On the race track equally I know several people who have been seriously injured, one quite horrifically so recently in the car I used to drive. My attitude is such though that whilst I will make something as safe as possible, so I own a safe road car (because they exist!), there's no such thing as a safe single seater (within my budget at least), and I enjoy that too much to just stop doing it or move to racing a sports car.
ian_touring said:
So the safest car is the car that is least likely to be involved in crashes in the first place. Shirly, somewhere on the internet is a list of the least-likely-cars-to-be-involved in crashes, and the least-likely-to-be-crashed colours, etc etc...
I imagine something NCAP unfriendly like a yellow Dodge Ram V8 Pickup would come out of that very well.RobM77 said:
As much as we should be looking at statistics, I think it changes one's opinion to have friends who've crashed, or to have crashed yourself. On the road I know one person who was killed in an accident, and three with permanently impaired mobility. Even as a logical and statistically minded person, that does sway me towards safer cars these days (all those accidents were in older cars and apparently would have been fairly minor in a modern car). On the race track equally I know several people who have been seriously injured, one quite horrifically so recently in the car I used to drive. My attitude is such though that whilst I will make something as safe as possible, so I own a safe road car (because they exist!), there's no such thing as a safe single seater (within my budget at least), and I enjoy that too much to just stop doing it or move to racing a sports car.
Pretty much agree totally with all this. Life isn't about not taking risks, it's about avoiding taking risks unnecessarily.A lot of people who have dangerous jobs seem to choose safe cars, I remember a stunt pilot on one of those Clarkson programs saying he had a Volvo V70 because it was safe. His career was all about managing risk so he applied that to his private life too
CampDavid said:
RobM77 said:
As much as we should be looking at statistics, I think it changes one's opinion to have friends who've crashed, or to have crashed yourself. On the road I know one person who was killed in an accident, and three with permanently impaired mobility. Even as a logical and statistically minded person, that does sway me towards safer cars these days (all those accidents were in older cars and apparently would have been fairly minor in a modern car). On the race track equally I know several people who have been seriously injured, one quite horrifically so recently in the car I used to drive. My attitude is such though that whilst I will make something as safe as possible, so I own a safe road car (because they exist!), there's no such thing as a safe single seater (within my budget at least), and I enjoy that too much to just stop doing it or move to racing a sports car.
Pretty much agree totally with all this. Life isn't about not taking risks, it's about avoiding taking risks unnecessarily.A lot of people who have dangerous jobs seem to choose safe cars, I remember a stunt pilot on one of those Clarkson programs saying he had a Volvo V70 because it was safe. His career was all about managing risk so he applied that to his private life too
What does concern me is people who simply don't seem to understand risk. It's the old "you could be run over crossing the road or die of cancer tomorrow, therefore I'm going to parachute without a reserve and not wear safety goggles drilling metal" attitude. Strange.
having had a serious head on collision due to another car loosing control i would choose a safer car over an unsafer one, however i wouldnt stop me driving something nice like an e30 but i see no need to take unnecessary risk without reason. i drive a mk3 mx5, not the safest car really if i have a big shunt but i know with it having a 4* ncap rating it will atleast look after me better than if i was driving a 2* clio saxo etc.
kambites said:
doogz said:
Oh, and flying is less dangerous than driving.
Edited by kambites on Friday 7th January 14:27
You do remember correctly, that's correct. Because plane journeys are so long, and take offs and landings are the most dangerous parts, it distorts the statistics.The way some imbeciles drive on our roads these days, I would go for the safest option every time, not OTT though.
Like, air bags, seat belt tensioners, ABS. You can be the safest driver in the world, the other buggers around you are the problem, and the odd one now and again, couple of years ago up here in Aberdeen, guy had a heart attack, car verred across the carriageway head on with oncoming car.
Like, air bags, seat belt tensioners, ABS. You can be the safest driver in the world, the other buggers around you are the problem, and the odd one now and again, couple of years ago up here in Aberdeen, guy had a heart attack, car verred across the carriageway head on with oncoming car.
Vipers said:
The way some imbeciles drive on our roads these days, I would go for the safest option every time, not OTT though.
Like, air bags, seat belt tensioners, ABS. You can be the safest driver in the world, the other buggers around you are the problem, and the odd one now and again, couple of years ago up here in Aberdeen, guy had a heart attack, car verred across the carriageway head on with oncoming car.
I'm no angel on the roads, but I am constantly shocked by how some people drive. It's as if they have no common sense and have never read the Highway Code. Indicating seems to be a thing of the past, people get into lane about a mile before each roundabout, and that's if they know which lane to get into. They pull out in front of you at junctions when there's a clear road behind you, and tailgate you in 30 limits inches from your bumper, yet flash you when you dare to overtake them at 45mph in a 60. I constantly see people turning right from the left lane at roundabouts too! People are surprisingly stupid on the roads - it never ceases to amaze me just how stupid they are. And if you have a run in with someone it's all your fault - always! Road safety seems to be mainly about avoiding idiots, which is a great shame.Like, air bags, seat belt tensioners, ABS. You can be the safest driver in the world, the other buggers around you are the problem, and the odd one now and again, couple of years ago up here in Aberdeen, guy had a heart attack, car verred across the carriageway head on with oncoming car.
Incidentally, I've only had one accident; back in 2001. A lady coming towards me veered across the road straight into the side of my MR2, pushing me into a ditch. As you rightly say, you can't mitigate against that sort of thing happening. If I'd have been in my Caterham she'd have hit my elbow at 40mph... As it was I just needed a new door and my car was fine afterwards. She claimed I slid sideways into her, even though the road was straight. It's a strange world - I'm sticking with my big safe saloon car for everyday driving I think!
Edited by RobM77 on Friday 7th January 14:55
I think nowadays safety is more of a concern than it used to be, as the average weight of cars has gone up so much. Go back 20 years and you didnt see a lot of off-roaders and the ones you did see tended to be a farmer in his Defender going 45mph! If you were still driving around in a classic Mini now, it's a worry that you can be smashed into by a Q7/X5/RR etc weighing 2500kg or so versus your 650kg. Plus the average speed of traffic has gone up a lot too, for me it's nice to know what you're driving is fairly substantial, more so that I know the missus' car is.
A lot of people will have seen the various head-on crash tests that Fifth Gear have done, the 2004 Modus v 1992 Volvo 940 is interesting, despite the Volvo being an absolute tank of an estate car, massive bonnet area, the small (5 star NCAP) hatchback Modus comes out much better off. What it would be like in say a 205/AX/Saxo versus an Espace - not somewhere I'd want to be.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBDyeWofcLY&NR=...
A lot of people will have seen the various head-on crash tests that Fifth Gear have done, the 2004 Modus v 1992 Volvo 940 is interesting, despite the Volvo being an absolute tank of an estate car, massive bonnet area, the small (5 star NCAP) hatchback Modus comes out much better off. What it would be like in say a 205/AX/Saxo versus an Espace - not somewhere I'd want to be.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBDyeWofcLY&NR=...
terzo said:
I think nowadays safety is more of a concern than it used to be, as the average weight of cars has gone up so much. Go back 20 years and you didnt see a lot of off-roaders and the ones you did see tended to be a farmer in his Defender going 45mph! If you were still driving around in a classic Mini now, it's a worry that you can be smashed into by a Q7/X5/RR etc weighing 2500kg or so versus your 650kg. Plus the average speed of traffic has gone up a lot too, for me it's nice to know what you're driving is fairly substantial, more so that I know the missus' car is.
A lot of people will have seen the various head-on crash tests that Fifth Gear have done, the 2004 Modus v 1992 Volvo 940 is interesting, despite the Volvo being an absolute tank of an estate car, massive bonnet area, the small (5 star NCAP) hatchback Modus comes out much better off. What it would be like in say a 205/AX/Saxo versus an Espace - not somewhere I'd want to be.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBDyeWofcLY&NR=...
This is a good point. Pretty soon though there will be no Austin 7's, Mini's or anything small as we have to upsize to survive. That is why we are seeing more and more 4x4's. Don't ever want to be in the smaller car syndrome.A lot of people will have seen the various head-on crash tests that Fifth Gear have done, the 2004 Modus v 1992 Volvo 940 is interesting, despite the Volvo being an absolute tank of an estate car, massive bonnet area, the small (5 star NCAP) hatchback Modus comes out much better off. What it would be like in say a 205/AX/Saxo versus an Espace - not somewhere I'd want to be.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBDyeWofcLY&NR=...
Balanced arguments so far.
Being in a major RTA concentrates the mind on this one.
Mine was being hit from behind, I was stationary and a 206 went into the back of me doing around 50 pushing me into the car in front. After a situation like that I was very grateful to be in a well designed car with airbags, crumple zones etc.
So yes, being in a safe car bothers me a lot these days.
Mine was being hit from behind, I was stationary and a 206 went into the back of me doing around 50 pushing me into the car in front. After a situation like that I was very grateful to be in a well designed car with airbags, crumple zones etc.
So yes, being in a safe car bothers me a lot these days.
Yes, I want a very safe car that's going to keep me alive when I hit something.
It means I can drive like a cretin knowing I'll be fine, I don't have to slow down for bad weather, loads of traffic, anywhere with pedestrians nearby.... See those traffic calming chicanes where oncoming traffic has to stop? I don't need to, the other guy in the unsafe car will give way.
Even if I crash, I'm insured, there's a courtesy car, the car probably isn't even bought by me. As long as I don't speed in front of cameras I can drive with absolute impunity.
I'm the average driver. Fear me.
It means I can drive like a cretin knowing I'll be fine, I don't have to slow down for bad weather, loads of traffic, anywhere with pedestrians nearby.... See those traffic calming chicanes where oncoming traffic has to stop? I don't need to, the other guy in the unsafe car will give way.
Even if I crash, I'm insured, there's a courtesy car, the car probably isn't even bought by me. As long as I don't speed in front of cameras I can drive with absolute impunity.
I'm the average driver. Fear me.
Edited by garethj on Friday 7th January 19:39
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