RE: Gran Turismo Vs Reality On The Nordschleife

[ukzz4iroc]

g3org3y said:

MattjK said:

Rubbish sound effects or not, you have to admire that Japanese dedication to perfection. I hear that the depth of rendering work that goes into each car is just mind-blowing. Maybe they'd blown the budget when it came to the sounds...?

From understanding (i.e. reading the GT5 Thread on here when it came out), only the 'premium' cars and the 'premium' tracks are rendered in such detail. The common or garden stuff that you start off in (do they still have squillions of slightly different Japanese hatchbacks?) and the generic GT tracks aren't that much different from GT4.

I may be wrong however.

No you are correct. Majority of cars are ported from earlier and PSP versions. So in reality it is 150 or so cars. Less than Forza, whcih all have dashboards btw.

[vz-r_dave]

If your not playing racing sims with racing wheels then you should not be comparing differences between the likes of Forza and GT5 imo. Playing these games with a pad is not what they where designed for. Forza perhaps but GT5 was made for a wheel. I wouldnt make any judgement until I have used a wheel tbh.

It is right about te feeling of being high up though i think.

[michaelfenton]

MattjK said:

Rubbish sound effects or not, you have to admire that Japanese dedication to perfection. I hear that the depth of rendering work that goes into each car is just mind-blowing. Maybe they'd blown the budget when it came to the sounds...?

For GT5, the recorded all the sounds of the cars meticulously. Problem is, they recorded the wrong kind of sounds. They spend ages putting microphones in all the right places in the engine bay to achieve the "real" sound of the car (i.e. the engine). They seem to have neglected exhausts and induction and whatnot, plus the standard turbo blow-off valve on all turbo cars is really annoying! Forza have car sounds down to a T.

[RobM77]

vz-r_dave said:

If your not playing racing sims with racing wheels then you should not be comparing differences between the likes of Forza and GT5 imo. Playing these games with a pad is not what they where designed for. Forza perhaps but GT5 was made for a wheel. I wouldnt make any judgement until I have used a wheel tbh.

It is right about te feeling of being high up though i think.

Agreed, although I'd struggle to call Forza or any previous version of GT a sim, in the same way Flight Sim X is, or iRacing/RFactor. I've yet to try GT5, but I expect it's also just an arcade game like Forza is.

[TAS1981]

The comparison is purely academic. Anyone who has driven the Nurburgring knows what that is like and its not the same as the game. Its digitally replicated very well but unless they make it 3D and stick you in one of the simulation G-force sensation type things, its always going to "feel" like a game, not the real thing. Even if like me you have a good force feedback steering wheel. (And it is good the feedback).

I found the PS2 GT nurburgring ok for learning the odd corner but only for the first half of the track and then I lose where I am...and I played it a lot. (Driven the ring only for 4 laps though).

GT5 is very realistic to look at so I recognise the real track in it much more. Also the corner names are displayed now which is really helpful to learn them because its a bit of an @rse to learn them otherwise.

As for unrealistic times, how many times did people go on the grass whilst trying to get that time?...or even nearly go on the grass. If even once, in real life you might have died, where as you just lose a few seconds on GT5. That rather affects your lap times.

[ZeroSum]

Having driven both I am impressed with the Nordschleife on GT5 - it is a great way to get the basics of the track and best experienced with a decent wheel and pedal setup like the G27. Still nothing like heading out there for real though.

[vladman]

zebedee said:

dirty boy said:

Impressive, but I still can't get over how souless the GT5 car sounds are.

All that attention to detail, and it still sounds like Outrun on the C64

sounds are the best they have been, far far better than prologue even, let alone what went before. Have you tried the Mazda 787B or a race tuned Pagani? Any V12 tuned really does howl. I agree that more noise would be good, but you are limited by what you play it through. Does anyone play it through a surround sound system and if so, does that make much difference?

The audio is AWESOME! Yes, I play it in its full 5.1 surround sound glory. Couldn't disagree more that the sound is inadequate. Having said that, perhaps it is (inadequate) in stereo, coming out of some weedy TV speakers. There is a section with audio settings, where you can change a lot of parameters, individual volumes, and the kind of system you have, so perhaps worth playing with those settings.

[Crow555]

g3org3y said:

MattjK said:

Rubbish sound effects or not, you have to admire that Japanese dedication to perfection. I hear that the depth of rendering work that goes into each car is just mind-blowing. Maybe they'd blown the budget when it came to the sounds...?

From understanding (i.e. reading the GT5 Thread on here when it came out), only the 'premium' cars and the 'premium' tracks are rendered in such detail. The common or garden stuff that you start off in (do they still have squillions of slightly different Japanese hatchbacks?) and the generic GT tracks aren't that much different from GT4.

I may be wrong however.

Yes, still plenty of Daihatsu Cuores and the like. Anyway, standard cars, yes. They look awful at times. I got a C5 Corvette the other evening and it looks pants. Even the wheel arches are rough and blocky. The premium cars look nice but I still think Forza 3 has more detail. I tried to compare a DC5 on both games and it's close but I think Forza 3 has it, just.

[Mr Whippy]

Nice...

Not particularly hard with their time/budget and modern GPS recording capabilities though.

GT5 hasn't blown me away like GT2 did when it came out.

Still nice to have, but it did look much the same in GT4 almost 6 years ago, just not in high resolution

Dave

[MrTappets]

Having played this and Forza 3 a bit recently, I have to admit that i've gone to the Forza camp. Admittedly the GT5 physics engine is absolutely brilliant and the graphics are (for the most part) excellent, the electric toothbrush sound effects, vast number of rubbish useless cars and limited options for personalisation of cars left me feeling far less involved, although I don't doubt that it's the most technically advanced driving sim out at the moment.

[Benjman]

TAS1981 said:

The comparison is purely academic. Anyone who has driven the Nurburgring knows what that is like and its not the same as the game. Its digitally replicated very well but unless they make it 3D and stick you in one of the simulation G-force sensation type things, its always going to "feel" like a game, not the real thing. Even if like me you have a good force feedback steering wheel. (And it is good the feedback).

I found the PS2 GT nurburgring ok for learning the odd corner but only for the first half of the track and then I lose where I am...and I played it a lot. (Driven the ring only for 4 laps though).

GT5 is very realistic to look at so I recognise the real track in it much more. Also the corner names are displayed now which is really helpful to learn them because its a bit of an @rse to learn them otherwise.

As for unrealistic times, how many times did people go on the grass whilst trying to get that time?...or even nearly go on the grass. If even once, in real life you might have died, where as you just lose a few seconds on GT5. That rather affects your lap times.

It is already in 3D available. I think you just need an update for the PS3 and a TV, of course. I tried it in a shop. But spending 4...5K for GT5 is way too much.

[mackie1]

Some cars sound immense ('69 Camaro Z28 for example - sounds like God) and others a bit poo (SL55 - should sound like God). It is random and annoying since it's clear they can do good sounds but most cars are lacking.

[rfactor9k]

rFactor!

[Contaminated]

ukzz4iroc said:

zebedee said:

dirty boy said:

Impressive, but I still can't get over how souless the GT5 car sounds are.

All that attention to detail, and it still sounds like Outrun on the C64

sounds are the best they have been, far far better than prologue even, let alone what went before. Have you tried the Mazda 787B or a race tuned Pagani? Any V12 tuned really does howl. I agree that more noise would be good, but you are limited by what you play it through. Does anyone play it through a surround sound system and if so, does that make much difference?

The sounds are utterly useless. Totally ruins the whole experience for me. Forza has far better sounds, better cars and the physics are better.

I don't agree with that. I have both games and I think Forza is way more polished as a game in most areas, but GT5 clinches it for me based on the physics. A lot of people are slating the sound but I can't say I've noticed TBH. Overall I would say Forza is prettier but GT5 is better. Funnily enough my third favourite is NFS Shift. In particular, and it being the only track I've actually driven so far, I like Brands Hatch on NFS.

[vz-r_dave]

Benjman said:

TAS1981 said:

The comparison is purely academic. Anyone who has driven the Nurburgring knows what that is like and its not the same as the game. Its digitally replicated very well but unless they make it 3D and stick you in one of the simulation G-force sensation type things, its always going to "feel" like a game, not the real thing. Even if like me you have a good force feedback steering wheel. (And it is good the feedback).

I found the PS2 GT nurburgring ok for learning the odd corner but only for the first half of the track and then I lose where I am...and I played it a lot. (Driven the ring only for 4 laps though).

GT5 is very realistic to look at so I recognise the real track in it much more. Also the corner names are displayed now which is really helpful to learn them because its a bit of an @rse to learn them otherwise.

As for unrealistic times, how many times did people go on the grass whilst trying to get that time?...or even nearly go on the grass. If even once, in real life you might have died, where as you just lose a few seconds on GT5. That rather affects your lap times.

It is already in 3D available. I think you just need an update for the PS3 and a TV, of course. I tried it in a shop. But spending 4...5K for GT5 is way too much.

I played it many times on the PS3 prior to my visit to the ring, although it doesnt get the environment variables right. (Its impossible to unless you use some kind of flights sim) I was able to remember every corner and it helped a lot.

[9000rpm]

michaelfenton said:

MattjK said:

Rubbish sound effects or not, you have to admire that Japanese dedication to perfection. I hear that the depth of rendering work that goes into each car is just mind-blowing. Maybe they'd blown the budget when it came to the sounds...?

For GT5, the recorded all the sounds of the cars meticulously. Problem is, they recorded the wrong kind of sounds. They spend ages putting microphones in all the right places in the engine bay to achieve the "real" sound of the car (i.e. the engine). They seem to have neglected exhausts and induction and whatnot, plus the standard turbo blow-off valve on all turbo cars is really annoying! Forza have car sounds down to a T.

The other issue with the sounds and why they dont sound correct is they recorded every engine with the car stationay so the engine wasn't really working hard and as a result sounds nothing like a car engine under full throttle :-( still if you want to know what a 430 sounds like at 8500 rpm in a car park in neutral, they have recorded it very well for you!

[RobM77]

9000rpm said:

michaelfenton said:

MattjK said:

Rubbish sound effects or not, you have to admire that Japanese dedication to perfection. I hear that the depth of rendering work that goes into each car is just mind-blowing. Maybe they'd blown the budget when it came to the sounds...?

For GT5, the recorded all the sounds of the cars meticulously. Problem is, they recorded the wrong kind of sounds. They spend ages putting microphones in all the right places in the engine bay to achieve the "real" sound of the car (i.e. the engine). They seem to have neglected exhausts and induction and whatnot, plus the standard turbo blow-off valve on all turbo cars is really annoying! Forza have car sounds down to a T.

The other issue with the sounds and why they dont sound correct is they recorded every engine with the car stationay so the engine wasn't really working hard and as a result sounds nothing like a car engine under full throttle :-( still if you want to know what a 430 sounds like at 8500 rpm in a car park in neutral, they have recorded it very well for you!

This is certainly the case with older versions of GT - I've read articles where they've described the modelling process and they don't even drive the cars... A real engine note changes dramatically through the rev range, and they just don't model that. It's an arcade game at the end of the day, not a sim. Decent sound would be good though!

[hal]

I play it on a 50" screen with about 4 grand of 7.1 surround sound gear. Image, awesome...sound, irritating....standing next to a pnuematic drill at full tilt is marginally less irritating....

zebedee said:

dirty boy said:

Impressive, but I still can't get over how souless the GT5 car sounds are.

All that attention to detail, and it still sounds like Outrun on the C64

sounds are the best they have been, far far better than prologue even, let alone what went before. Have you tried the Mazda 787B or a race tuned Pagani? Any V12 tuned really does howl. I agree that more noise would be good, but you are limited by what you play it through. Does anyone play it through a surround sound system and if so, does that make much difference?

[Mr Whippy]

doogz said:

Mr Whippy said:

Nice...

Not particularly hard with their time/budget and modern GPS recording capabilities though.

GT5 hasn't blown me away like GT2 did when it came out.

Still nice to have, but it did look much the same in GT4 almost 6 years ago, just not in high resolution

Dave

Most of the tracks haven't changed shape in the last 6 years, neither have a lot of the cars. What other differences, other than high res. were you expecting?

I think the driving dynamics are much better than they have been previously. Still not as good as LFS though.

Well, the video is kinda suggesting that this is really impressive, but it was done 6 years ago to a similar standard. The only reason it didn't look so hot was because the target system was a PS2 so textures and overall screen res were turned down, as well as some extra shading effects like cascading shadow mapping.

GT5 is good, no doubt about it, but people do seem to get a bit gushy about it.

For a studio with huge resources at their disposal making the Norschliefe look correct shouldn't be hard.

GT Legends got the olden days 'Ring pretty good well over a decade ago probably with a few old contour maps and PAL video tapes on VHS... that puts things in perspective for me, on a quality vs resource scale

Dave

[jasonpmr2]

In my opinion, you cannot comment on the feel/feedback of GT5 unless your using a decent steering wheel with force feedback.
The G25, G27 and apparently the GT make the game what it is, and give it the feel/ feedback that some people are saying it lacks.

Agreed its not the same as being out there, getting that adrenaline rush. But like was said earlier; how else are you going to get the oppurtunity to drive a Maclaren F1 round the 'ring while having a malt whisky and a smoke? (Especially as the ring will soon be shut :-( )

Edited by jasonpmr2 on Wednesday 12th January 14:55