RE: New Toyota FT-86 Concept Set For Geneva
Discussion
kambites said:
Guvernator said:
I doubt any modern car with all the safety crap which HAS to be included these days could get anywhere near that weight, even Lotus who were the kings of lightweight don't seem to be able to manage it anymore. I'd be very pleasantly surprised if it was lighter than 1300kgs.
Most of the weight doesn't come from things which have to be included, just from thing that NCAP have told people that they want. You're probably right though, and 1300kg and 160bhp would be a bit pathetic if that's the only model. ive been reading on this car since it was anounced and all the info about it as it's released..
This isnt gospel, but from what I understand:
- It will have subarus version of vtec/mivec valve contol in the flat 4 (i understand they have connections to yamaha for engine design?)
- 2.0 litre (some yanks think itll be 2.5 but i doubt that)
- RWD only, subaru and toyota
- both companies may do a turbo version (toyo has the gazoo / G' sport version)
- only toyo will do an NA I assume
- In gt5 (i know, not reliable) it has 220 brake, which isnt unreasonable from a 2.0 (s2000, integra dc5), i guess it'll be around 180 max, toyo has stated they want to go for an efficient engine
- this redesign was to help with safety, raising the bonnet height by 50mm for pedestrian protection or something
- in an interview with autocar, the ED2 european designers (of the concept) stated the price to be sub £20k gbp probably pushing it over with the tax man's greed lately
there is much more available to read though on forums, and most of it is speculation. This is pretty much just a level-headed guess at what i predict!
This isnt gospel, but from what I understand:
- It will have subarus version of vtec/mivec valve contol in the flat 4 (i understand they have connections to yamaha for engine design?)
- 2.0 litre (some yanks think itll be 2.5 but i doubt that)
- RWD only, subaru and toyota
- both companies may do a turbo version (toyo has the gazoo / G' sport version)
- only toyo will do an NA I assume
- In gt5 (i know, not reliable) it has 220 brake, which isnt unreasonable from a 2.0 (s2000, integra dc5), i guess it'll be around 180 max, toyo has stated they want to go for an efficient engine
- this redesign was to help with safety, raising the bonnet height by 50mm for pedestrian protection or something
- in an interview with autocar, the ED2 european designers (of the concept) stated the price to be sub £20k gbp probably pushing it over with the tax man's greed lately
there is much more available to read though on forums, and most of it is speculation. This is pretty much just a level-headed guess at what i predict!
Guvernator said:
I think all this safety stuff should be on the options list rather than in by default so for example if you have two kids and thinks it's absolutely essential that your car has a 5 star NCAP to keep your loved ones safe then you tick the "safety pack" option.
Unfortunately, I don't think the safety measures which really add weight are the ones you could remove - they're decisions taken when designing the structure of the car. Things like airbags and seatbelt pre-tensioners aren't heavy. Edited by otolith on Thursday 27th January 12:14
Andrew[MG] said:
I'd like this to be my first brand new car but it would need to be a bit more than 160 bhp I think.
I've never considered a new car as a viable option, but if they can get these onto the road for £20k ish, with 200bhp ish, and less than 1200kg ish, with a standard LSD, then I think I could be pursuaded too.Keep it small, light, and revvy. The MX5 sized coupe market is one which has been lacking a good value rear drive contender for far far too long.
In a car of this size I'de prefer it to be turbocharged. Although I'd love to be proven wrong, I really doubt they are going to be able to keep the weight down to any of the figures been thrown about in this thread, therefore a 180bhp NA just isn't going to cut it. Put in a decent turbo engine with around 250bhp and you'd be onto a winner. More efficient in terms of fuel economy and easy to tune for those who like that sort of thing. The Japs were brilliant at this type of car a couple of decades ago and I think they can do it again.
nickfrog said:
mat205125 said:
with 200bhp ish, and less than 1200kg ish, with a standard LSD,
Do you foresee traction being an issue on those modest figures ?The RX8 has also similar power/weight figures and it's never been an issue.
Benjman said:
nickfrog said:
mat205125 said:
with 200bhp ish, and less than 1200kg ish, with a standard LSD,
Do you foresee traction being an issue on those modest figures ?The RX8 has also similar power/weight figures and it's never been an issue.
hornetrider said:
I think he's referring to why is an LSD required. To address Nick's point - it's a great thing to have on an MX5 which only has 160bhp.
I've never felt that it would have added much to the Elise though, which also has 160bhp. Depends on how the car is set up, I guess. hornetrider said:
Benjman said:
nickfrog said:
mat205125 said:
with 200bhp ish, and less than 1200kg ish, with a standard LSD,
Do you foresee traction being an issue on those modest figures ?The RX8 has also similar power/weight figures and it's never been an issue.
...and a limited slip diff would also be nice as standard
I dont see why Subaru wont drop the 2.5 STI motor in there and AWD. The Subaru will likely cost more then the Toyota so they will be throwing money away by not appealing to their demographic.
I see toyota running a RWD 2.0 n/a and a 2.0 turbo
I see Subaru running a AWD 2.5 n/a and the STI plant
I see toyota running a RWD 2.0 n/a and a 2.0 turbo
I see Subaru running a AWD 2.5 n/a and the STI plant
An MX-5 with poorer power to weight than that is still more fun with a limited slip differential. You have to look at the cultural context of the car; you can see why it must have a limited slip diff if you look at this comment from the chief engineer on the programme:
MotorTrend Interview said:
When asked about the actual balance, chief engineer Tetsuya Tada replied: “Many people think it should be 50:50, but we did lots of tests and that isn’t the best for drifting. That’s why the gearbox is at the front not the rear. Drifting and sliding the tail is the most important thing, and this car will be the best in the world for that.”
otolith said:
An MX-5 with poorer power to weight than that is still more fun with a limited slip differential. You have to look at the cultural context of the car; you can see why it must have a limited slip diff if you look at this comment from the chief engineer on the programme:
OK, if the chief designer said that, I no longer have any faith in it being any good. MotorTrend Interview said:
When asked about the actual balance, chief engineer Tetsuya Tada replied: “Many people think it should be 50:50, but we did lots of tests and that isn’t the best for drifting. That’s why the gearbox is at the front not the rear. Drifting and sliding the tail is the most important thing, and this car will be the best in the world for that.”
scotstuscan said:
IF it as reliable as thier current offerings, all of these will be recalled for an indefinite period of time !!!!!
Don't Toyota have one of the lowest recall rates and best reliability records of any major manufacturer?Edited by kambites on Thursday 27th January 14:24
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