RE: New Toyota FT-86 Concept Set For Geneva
Discussion
Johnnytheboy said:
One with decent bhp (Subaru version rumoured to be aiming to be 260 in Autocar some time back) might be very tempting to me.
Not bothered by 4wd and don't have any reason to believe it's on the cards.
260bhp would be perfect. No doubt they'll also bring out some sort of brilliant Spec C variant for the Japanese market which we'll all be jealous of because it won't be avaiable over here.Not bothered by 4wd and don't have any reason to believe it's on the cards.
Benjman said:
What about the Hyundai Genesis Coupe? It went on sale recently. I think the price starts at 30 k€ with a 2.0 Turbo engine (>200bhp) and RWD, so it's still not that expensive.
But I think the disapperance is due to the market. Everyone wants hot hatches *shudder* at the moment, so small coupes are a niche product. I'm still looking forward for a revival. Like in the late '80s when every manufacturer laughed at Mazda for the MX5 because the market for small roadsters was dead. The rest is history.
Agreed; I'm really anticipating this thing.But I think the disapperance is due to the market. Everyone wants hot hatches *shudder* at the moment, so small coupes are a niche product. I'm still looking forward for a revival. Like in the late '80s when every manufacturer laughed at Mazda for the MX5 because the market for small roadsters was dead. The rest is history.
I realise engine access is likely to be a complete nightmare, but the idea of being able to utilise its compacness for excellent handling and a 2+2 package in something about the sixe of an S2000/968 and without a hideous Cyrano de Bergerac conk is very appealing indeed.
Benjman said:
What about the Hyundai Genesis Coupe? It went on sale recently. I think the price starts at 30 k€ with a 2.0 Turbo engine (>200bhp) and RWD, so it's still not that expensive.
If it has gone on sale in Europe, it's obviously not coming to the UK then (which was the rumour that it wouldn't 
) as there's still nothing about it on the Hyundai website....I have been delaying my next car purchase for a year or so now, in the hope that it might come to the UK..... so seems it's finally time to strike it off the list
aeropilot said:
Benjman said:
What about the Hyundai Genesis Coupe? It went on sale recently. I think the price starts at 30 k€ with a 2.0 Turbo engine (>200bhp) and RWD, so it's still not that expensive.
If it has gone on sale in Europe, it's obviously not coming to the UK then (which was the rumour that it wouldn't ) as there's still nothing about it on the Hyundai website....I have been delaying my next car purchase for a year or so now, in the hope that it might come to the UK..... so seems it's finally time to strike it off the list
and they decide not to 'pull the trigger'.
toyota had done their work for them in terms of big picture marketing and they've blown it because if it does now get released it'll be against the toyota and the subaru. well. done. there.
not only that but generally car for car the kia equivalent has greater appeal and this would have set them apart on that score too. this could have been the car to finally put the nail in the coffin of s
te like the ice cream S-Coupe...StormLoaded said:
It was delayed for the pedestrian friendly mods, and apparently Toyo are also struggling with meeting the emission regulations.. which hopefully means they are trying to squeeze every (reliable) hp from the subarus 2ltr boxer engine.
i think 2012 is still the expected release date. (was planned late 2011?)
apparently a hybrid version is also in the pipeline a further year or so down the line (first release will be NA only, and expected to be c180bhp).
(Im just regurgitating recent Toyota dealership rumours.. but the filtering down of info is normally pretty bang on. I know some dealerships that have taken deposits down on em aswell
.. they are unlikely to be given more than 3 or 4 cars to sell per quarter year so i wouldnt expect to see too many of them around initially)
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/post.asp?h=0&f=23&t=957273&r=16821255&m=quoteReply&mid=85045i think 2012 is still the expected release date. (was planned late 2011?)
apparently a hybrid version is also in the pipeline a further year or so down the line (first release will be NA only, and expected to be c180bhp).
(Im just regurgitating recent Toyota dealership rumours.. but the filtering down of info is normally pretty bang on. I know some dealerships that have taken deposits down on em aswell
.. they are unlikely to be given more than 3 or 4 cars to sell per quarter year so i wouldnt expect to see too many of them around initially)I actually think Toyota are struggling to make the engine clean enough for them.
Why will anyone buy an NA one when Subaru have a turbo charged one?
I honestly believe this car will be a let down when it arrives in Toyota trim.
paoloh said:
Why will anyone buy an NA one when Subaru have a turbo charged one?
I honestly believe this car will be a let down when it arrives in Toyota trim.
Scooby version is suppodedly going to have a rwd biased awd system, as well as the flat 4 turbo engine, so, yes I agree, a low powered n/a, rwd Toyota version isn't going to sell IMHO.I honestly believe this car will be a let down when it arrives in Toyota trim.
However, if Toyota put a bonkers turbo 4 in their rwd only version, with a DSG/DCT type transmission and LSD, then I'd be VERY interested.
aeropilot said:
Scooby version is suppodedly going to have a rwd biased awd system, as well as the flat 4 turbo engine, so, yes I agree, a low powered n/a, rwd Toyota version isn't going to sell IMHO.
However, if Toyota put a bonkers turbo 4 in their rwd only version, with a DSG/DCT type transmission and LSD, then I'd be VERY interested.
Err, it is Toyota!!However, if Toyota put a bonkers turbo 4 in their rwd only version, with a DSG/DCT type transmission and LSD, then I'd be VERY interested.
They are obsessed with co2 and MPG.
If it comes in an auto, it will be a CVT......
Evil.soup said:
It sounds rather like Toyota may be going down the RX8 type road like Mazda and if they are it will be set to be a rather disappointing car IMHO.
The car is meant to be simple, relatively lightweight and affordable to own and run for (Japanese) young people. Given the insurance climate in the UK, don't you think that kind of car is more relevant here than if they gave the base model 300bhp and four wheel drive? A small rear drive coupe which is affordable to buy and to run seems to be exactly what most of the people who missed the point of the RX-8 were asking for.
doogz said:
aeropilot said:
Scooby version is suppodedly going to have a rwd biased awd system, as well as the flat 4 turbo engine, so, yes I agree, a low powered n/a, rwd Toyota version isn't going to sell IMHO.
Where are people reading this?http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/autoexpressnews/...
doogz said:
Auto Express, LOL, i see.
Seems they're the only people convinced it'll be 4WD. I don't think the Toyota Concept pictures we've seen lend themselves to a 4WD layout, the front wheels look too far forward to me, but it does say it's based on a Legacy chassis.
Strange.
Also, if you look at the Toyota pics in profile, again, i don't see how they'll make 4WD work.
Don't disagree with you...... except I also can't see Subaru going rwd only with this...... it would be a big departure for them from what they see as their 'heritage' so to speak....???Seems they're the only people convinced it'll be 4WD. I don't think the Toyota Concept pictures we've seen lend themselves to a 4WD layout, the front wheels look too far forward to me, but it does say it's based on a Legacy chassis.
Strange.
Also, if you look at the Toyota pics in profile, again, i don't see how they'll make 4WD work.
We will just have to wait and see.
Shame Toyota have walked away from their 'heritage' as well. After all the bad press they have had over the past few years, they could do with another 'halo' sports product again win back some of their old Celica, Supra, GT Twin Cam, MR2 type customers.
doogz said:
but i can see myself looking for a turbo 2WD one in a couple of years, i wouldn't want a 4WD. Been there, done that.
Yup, I'd not want a 4wd one either, but like you, I would be interested in a rwd one though..... depending on what transmissions are offered, as I don't want a manual, and would like a DCT type trans, as I now can't be arsed with a manual living in London.aeropilot said:
doogz said:
but i can see myself looking for a turbo 2WD one in a couple of years, i wouldn't want a 4WD. Been there, done that.
Yup, I'd not want a 4wd one either, but like you, I would be interested in a rwd one though..... depending on what transmissions are offered, as I don't want a manual, and would like a DCT type trans, as I now can't be arsed with a manual living in London.
Sounds like a good combination. I'd like it to be like a stiffer and more focused RX8 with a beefier engine, and more luggage space instead of rear seats. The new generation of double clutch gearboxes are fantastic as well (if my recent drive in an E92 M3 is representative!).otolith said:
Evil.soup said:
It sounds rather like Toyota may be going down the RX8 type road like Mazda and if they are it will be set to be a rather disappointing car IMHO.
The car is meant to be simple, relatively lightweight and affordable to own and run for (Japanese) young people. Given the insurance climate in the UK, don't you think that kind of car is more relevant here than if they gave the base model 300bhp and four wheel drive? A small rear drive coupe which is affordable to buy and to run seems to be exactly what most of the people who missed the point of the RX-8 were asking for.
No, that's the point, people who don't get the RX-8 complain that they would like one with lower running costs, because they don't appreciate the benefits of the car and think only in terms of power versus consumption. This car answers their issue, it will be a much more affordable car to run.
The real issue with cars like the RX-8 is that people who can afford the running costs are often looking further upmarket - this is going to become more the case with higher fuel and tax costs. I don't really see much future in Europe for cheap high emission cars like WRXs, for that reason and because of imminent corporate CO2 limits, and I can see why Toyota might not want to take that route.
The real issue with cars like the RX-8 is that people who can afford the running costs are often looking further upmarket - this is going to become more the case with higher fuel and tax costs. I don't really see much future in Europe for cheap high emission cars like WRXs, for that reason and because of imminent corporate CO2 limits, and I can see why Toyota might not want to take that route.
otolith said:
No, that's the point, people who don't get the RX-8 complain that they would like one with lower running costs, because they don't appreciate the benefits of the car and think only in terms of power versus consumption. This car answers their issue, it will be a much more affordable car to run.
The real issue with cars like the RX-8 is that people who can afford the running costs are often looking further upmarket - this is going to become more the case with higher fuel and tax costs. I don't really see much future in Europe for cheap high emission cars like WRXs, for that reason and because of imminent corporate CO2 limits, and I can see why Toyota might not want to take that route.
I do see what you are saying and dont want to turn this into the RX8 debate but i really dont see the point of a 1.3 that lacks grunt but drinks like a fish. I do love the concept of the car but it seems to have been more a PR stunt than anything else.The real issue with cars like the RX-8 is that people who can afford the running costs are often looking further upmarket - this is going to become more the case with higher fuel and tax costs. I don't really see much future in Europe for cheap high emission cars like WRXs, for that reason and because of imminent corporate CO2 limits, and I can see why Toyota might not want to take that route.
This Toyota thing should be better than the above but again i just see the same issues. It will be another Hyundai Coupe type car but with RWD of course.
Evil.soup said:
I do see what you are saying and dont want to turn this into the RX8 debate but i really dont see the point of a 1.3 that lacks grunt but drinks like a fish. I do love the concept of the car but it seems to have been more a PR stunt than anything else.
Dunno about that, it sold in big numbers. Too many, really, for the good of the residuals. The appeal was that it was a proper four seater that didn't drive like a saloon car. No point to it if you are happy with a four cylinder saloon car, and the power delivery won't suit you if you prefer turbocharged engines, but we all have different tastes. Evil.soup said:
This Toyota thing should be better than the above but again i just see the same issues. It will be another Hyundai Coupe type car but with RWD of course.
That doesn't sound like a bad thing to me. It will be a small coupe but with less weight, more power, a lower centre of gravity and rear wheel drive - what's not to like? So many people are completely missing the point of this car.
There's a choice of circa 300bhp RWD coupes available already, they are all expensive to buy, expensive to own and usually pretty heavy. However I can think of zero cheap to buy and run, relatively light, sub 200bhp RWD coupes currently in production.
Think 'MX5 coupe with a bit more grunt', not 'Underpowered RWD Impreza'
There's a choice of circa 300bhp RWD coupes available already, they are all expensive to buy, expensive to own and usually pretty heavy. However I can think of zero cheap to buy and run, relatively light, sub 200bhp RWD coupes currently in production.
Think 'MX5 coupe with a bit more grunt', not 'Underpowered RWD Impreza'
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