Overtaking - Do you stay out...
Discussion
RSGulp said:
If it's on the way to Le Mans with drivers who I trust and we have discussed the protocol beforehand then yes. If it's someone I don't know and therefore cannot trust, get the f
k out of my line of sight. 
I should add to my comment to clarify...k out of my line of sight. When driving with trusted mates, if it's clear the protocol is to overtake with indicator on, then keep the indicator on for as long as you can see the road ahead is clear. The minute the indicator goes off it means there is a car approaching.
I understand you are trying to help the drivers behind you. But, because they don't know (or trust) you, I think unfortunately you're making overtaking more difficult for following drivers.
I think the fact that new drivers are forced to work out how to overtake for themselves makes it a vastly more dangerous manouevre than it ought to be.
ETA: I should quantify this; RSGulp's post made me think that there should be a communication protocol for drivers overtaking. However, having one would no doubt end up with complex (and probably unenforcable) insurance claims where driver of car 1 says "well driver of car 2 said it was OK and I crashed in to the oncoming car when he pulled back in".
The fact that the thought of this means we've ended up with a "we won't teach anything about it" is in my opinion, really quite poor given the vast performance gap in todays vehicles.
ETA: I should quantify this; RSGulp's post made me think that there should be a communication protocol for drivers overtaking. However, having one would no doubt end up with complex (and probably unenforcable) insurance claims where driver of car 1 says "well driver of car 2 said it was OK and I crashed in to the oncoming car when he pulled back in".
The fact that the thought of this means we've ended up with a "we won't teach anything about it" is in my opinion, really quite poor given the vast performance gap in todays vehicles.
Edited by LandingSpot on Friday 4th February 22:46
Back in the day, when being on the mobile at the wheel wasn't quite illegal, out on a drive with a friend I got stuck behind a dawdler on a very windy road with poor visibility. My friend rang me and said he was 200 yds ahead and the road was clear for me to overtake, even though I couldn't see more than 2 car lengths beyond the car I was following. It was a nice idea but I still didn't take the risk.
The 'leave the indicator on' idea sounds a bit better but still isn't idiot proof. A couple of times I've overtaken a car, been making good progress and then noticed 20 seconds later my indicator is still on. In the mean time several oncoming vehicles might have passed. I would hate someone to mis-read that as me saying 'it's safe to overtake'.
The 'leave the indicator on' idea sounds a bit better but still isn't idiot proof. A couple of times I've overtaken a car, been making good progress and then noticed 20 seconds later my indicator is still on. In the mean time several oncoming vehicles might have passed. I would hate someone to mis-read that as me saying 'it's safe to overtake'.
busta said:
Back in the day, when being on the mobile at the wheel wasn't quite illegal, out on a drive with a friend I got stuck behind a dawdler on a very windy road with poor visibility. My friend rang me and said he was 200 yds ahead and the road was clear for me to overtake, even though I couldn't see more than 2 car lengths beyond the car I was following. It was a nice idea but I still didn't take the risk.
The 'leave the indicator on' idea sounds a bit better but still isn't idiot proof. A couple of times I've overtaken a car, been making good progress and then noticed 20 seconds later my indicator is still on. In the mean time several oncoming vehicles might have passed. I would hate someone to mis-read that as me saying 'it's safe to overtake'.
I appreciate that in general driving there's no way it would work. When driving with friends (to Le Mans for example) who are actively trying to help each other make progress then it works, because all drivers are concentrating on the task and are acutely aware that their indicators are 'the agreed signal'. The 'leave the indicator on' idea sounds a bit better but still isn't idiot proof. A couple of times I've overtaken a car, been making good progress and then noticed 20 seconds later my indicator is still on. In the mean time several oncoming vehicles might have passed. I would hate someone to mis-read that as me saying 'it's safe to overtake'.
In normal day-to-day driving the safest way to overtake is to think about number one - you overtake in your own time and let the people behind you make their own decisions.
RSGulp said:
I appreciate that in general driving there's no way it would work. When driving with friends (to Le Mans for example) who are actively trying to help each other make progress then it works, because all drivers are concentrating on the task and are acutely aware that their indicators are 'the agreed signal'.
But should every driver be concentrating on the task at hand?? 
OK we know that most do not and that's why it would never work.Therefore...
RSGulp said:
In normal day-to-day driving the safest way to overtake is to think about number one - you overtake in your own time and let the people behind you make their own decisions.
I guess the common denominator principle unfortunately applies.Only with my father on motorbikes, indicate a couple of flashes to pull out then cancel indicator. Once passed vehicle then front bike will flash indicator again to show nothing coming.
If no indicator then ride in accordance with visibility.
Anyone else then only I'll decide if ok to overtake.
If no indicator then ride in accordance with visibility.
Anyone else then only I'll decide if ok to overtake.
Always.
If the way is clear, I will always delay my appointment with my own lane for a second or so, telegraphing that the coast is clear for further overtakes. Obviously, there are few people capable of "receiving" such a blatant telegraph.
When driving with a few friends, the lead car will always "hang out" briefly to show the way is clear.
Sometimes it's done when not overtaking anything - when straight lining curves on country roads, the lead car will stay out for a few moments to telegraph to followers that the way is clear and it is OK to straighten up the line (and, often, firm up the drive to match acceleration with the lead car).
Makes for an interesting drive, especially as you have to try to "read" the lead car's intentions and gauge their potential actions into your plans.
If the way is clear, I will always delay my appointment with my own lane for a second or so, telegraphing that the coast is clear for further overtakes. Obviously, there are few people capable of "receiving" such a blatant telegraph.
When driving with a few friends, the lead car will always "hang out" briefly to show the way is clear.
Sometimes it's done when not overtaking anything - when straight lining curves on country roads, the lead car will stay out for a few moments to telegraph to followers that the way is clear and it is OK to straighten up the line (and, often, firm up the drive to match acceleration with the lead car).
Makes for an interesting drive, especially as you have to try to "read" the lead car's intentions and gauge their potential actions into your plans.
Dangerous Dan said:
Always.
If the way is clear, I will always delay my appointment with my own lane for a second or so, telegraphing that the coast is clear for further overtakes. Obviously, there are few people capable of "receiving" such a blatant telegraph.
The thing is Dan, I don't know you. What's seems like a blatant telegraph to you isn't to me.If the way is clear, I will always delay my appointment with my own lane for a second or so, telegraphing that the coast is clear for further overtakes. Obviously, there are few people capable of "receiving" such a blatant telegraph.
You seem like a very nice chap on here, perfectly capable of making decent progress and trying to be friendly. The thing is, if I'm in the car behind you then I have no idea you're DangerousDan from PH. You could be someone about to swerve hard to avoid an oncoming car. You could be a drunk driver. Or you could be avoiding an obstacle/accident in your own lane that I can't see, making it unsafe for me to overtake.
It's a judgement call on my part- I make a risk assessment that I don't think I want to make a manoeuvre without seeing that the road is clear for myself.
If you're driving with friends, I can see the logic and wouldn't say you're in the wrong even though I wouldn't do that myself. Again, it's a judgement call- yours is different to mine.
I don't move over or flash people out at all. People are too unpredictable so I never alter my course for anyone. Only time I let people out is when I'm safely at a complete stop.
And why would I risk driving into the dirty line at the side of the road, in some cases risking a puncture.
Only exception being an extra wide road and some one clearly wanted to overtake.
But I do stay out to be helpful to those behind, I reckon 99% get pissed off because they can't see. Most people won't compute what I'm doing.
And why would I risk driving into the dirty line at the side of the road, in some cases risking a puncture.
Only exception being an extra wide road and some one clearly wanted to overtake.
But I do stay out to be helpful to those behind, I reckon 99% get pissed off because they can't see. Most people won't compute what I'm doing.
Edited by briers on Saturday 5th February 00:40
No I don't. Out and back in, in the least amount of time possible exposed to danger.;)
But what does grind my goat, is people who overtake me (yes, im more of an overtakee than a overtaker) who when going for the overtake are inches off my rear bumper and flies nipple from clipping the rear corner of my car - especially the ones who do it at high end closing speeds but don't pull out until the last minute again nearly clipping the back end of me if hadn't judged it right - like the dhead Astra VXr last night who with me doing 55mph, must have been doing 120mph, rocketed past a nats cock from my car.
But what does grind my goat, is people who overtake me (yes, im more of an overtakee than a overtaker) who when going for the overtake are inches off my rear bumper and flies nipple from clipping the rear corner of my car - especially the ones who do it at high end closing speeds but don't pull out until the last minute again nearly clipping the back end of me if hadn't judged it right - like the d
head Astra VXr last night who with me doing 55mph, must have been doing 120mph, rocketed past a nats cock from my car.Used to do this all the time, when out on the m/bikes, lead bike, indicator on until on coming traffic spotted, then back into correct lane. Also pointing things out on the road surface for following bikers to be aware of.
Wouldn't consider it one bit if I didn't know the other driver, because as we all know, assume every other driver on the road is an idiot.
When most drivers now,
don't give way to cars coming up a hill.
don't wait to pass a row of parked cars on their side, and just barge through on the other side of the white line.
when turning right at a crossroads, turn in front of the car opposite, also turning right, instead of going to the rear of the car, then turning, so you can see any on coming traffic.
I understand some instructors are telling learner drivers to not use the cars gears to slow the car when approaching junctions etc. Explains why alot of cars now seem to barrel up to junctions then slam on.
And don't even get me started on the dozzy twonks, who seem to be using "racing lines" through corners.
Wouldn't consider it one bit if I didn't know the other driver, because as we all know, assume every other driver on the road is an idiot.
When most drivers now,
don't give way to cars coming up a hill.
don't wait to pass a row of parked cars on their side, and just barge through on the other side of the white line.
when turning right at a crossroads, turn in front of the car opposite, also turning right, instead of going to the rear of the car, then turning, so you can see any on coming traffic.
I understand some instructors are telling learner drivers to not use the cars gears to slow the car when approaching junctions etc. Explains why alot of cars now seem to barrel up to junctions then slam on.
And don't even get me started on the dozzy twonks, who seem to be using "racing lines" through corners.
Spot on, there was a motors show on TV, that used to do a "Time Exposed to Danger" feature, for cars on test, where a car had to overtake a lorry which was travelling at a set speed. The car had to get out, overtake, and get in as soon as possible, time taken was listed as "TED". Proper real world test. They then spoilt it by doing a test which checked how far away you could hear the cars music system. Seem to remember it was an "up north" production, and contained a "Reverand" character, and more importantly a certain Louise Bradey, mmmhhhhhh.
RSGulp said:
When driving with trusted mates, if it's clear the protocol is to overtake with indicator on, then keep the indicator on for as long as you can see the road ahead is clear. The minute the indicator goes off it means there is a car approaching.
Fair enough with trusted mates but when I'm driving abroad (outside of Europe) I tend to find that locals indicate to offside if something is coming and nearside if it's clear for you to move out and take a look/go. Just thought I'd mention it as it's opposite to your protocol.Aside from that, I agree with the majority. If you are finished with your overtake then GTF out my way. I, personally, will not make the move till I can see with my own eyes.
The flaw with the "keeping the indicator on" move is that it risks someone pulling out in front of you from the left because they were in a hurry and thought you were going to turn right before you reached their position.
Overtaking is a manoever which you should do only when you can see it is safe. Having completed this you should get back into your lane and let those behind make their own judgement.
This is a bit like flashing your headlights (see many threads on PH) as it can be misunderstood because others cannot read your mind or even know if you are "of sound mind".
If you want to help others on the road then get a flourscent jacket, nice peaked hat and a school crossing lollipop. (Being a car-hating tree hugger is optional).
Overtaking is a manoever which you should do only when you can see it is safe. Having completed this you should get back into your lane and let those behind make their own judgement.
This is a bit like flashing your headlights (see many threads on PH) as it can be misunderstood because others cannot read your mind or even know if you are "of sound mind".
If you want to help others on the road then get a flourscent jacket, nice peaked hat and a school crossing lollipop. (Being a car-hating tree hugger is optional).
cptsideways said:
Yes frequently but only with other drivers "in the know"
I can only count a couple of times where a random driver has done it for me, for which they get a
For the everage driver they would'nt have a clue
+1I can only count a couple of times where a random driver has done it for me, for which they get a
For the everage driver they would'nt have a clue
Do it a lot on motorbike runs with friends and occassionally on PH runs. But then, as a few have mentioned, with a car you're blocking the view up ahead...
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