Pre accident value - am i getting ripped off
Discussion
hello everyone, ill give a brief outline of the situation first.
I was involved in an accident about 3 weeks ago. I was stationary and someone went into the o/s/r of my car and then slid down the side of it (he was behind me approaching). The car got recovered to the bodyshop and after a few days i got a call to say that the car was a total loss. The estimate was around £10,000. The car is a BMW M3 52plate 2002 car coupe, 49000miles in black, hardtop. I was also aware when i bought the car it was a write off that had been rectified althoug there was no evidence of this. The car drove perfectly and looked amazing.
Now, i bought the car for what i knew was above the value (taking into account the previous writeoff). However after viewing lots of crap this one drove lovely and with no signs of the writeoff i thought it would be ok. I paid £13000 7 months ago. The prices have gone down a little since but not too much i think.
Now, heres my problem. I spokt to the assessor and he said he was offering me £6500 with £780 salvage. I knew a first offer would be low but after a second phone call he said he wasnt willing to raise that figure. I gave him 11 examples of cars with the same age from private buyers with higher milage as i couldnt find any that low. They were around the 11-13000 mark. I alse explained that the only cars around the figure he was offering was one i found on ebay with a blown engine! He then told me that the car had been involved in 2 writeoffs before and that the repair was sub standard because of the amount of filler used (i wasnt aware of this when i bought the car but the panels and gaps looked very straight). He also said there was a power issue that was there before the accident. I was adimant that the pre accident condition was A1 and disputed this but he stuck to his word. He would not offer me any more than the figure.
I told him i couldnt buy any equivalent car with the money he was offering and he said my car was in such a bad way before the accident with a chequered history that there was no equivalent model to my car. I was shocked at this because of how well it drove beforehand, which reflected its low milage. I was also a little annoyed at his attitude as he was so sure the car was in a bad condition beforehand. When i dug further i realised he wasnt the assessor who looked at the car, but rather an inhouse one (whatever that is) who had pictures and a report from the guy who looked at the car.
I then tried to go down a different route. I had previously discussed with the bodyshop the repairs and they agreed to do them for £7350 (contract price). I asked him that instead of writing the car off can i have it repaired at the fixed price of £850 more than he was offering. TO substitute this i would happily give up my £260 a day hire car. He wasnt interested in the hire car price being an independant assessor and still said no to the repairs!
Finally, i have emailed the actual assessor after finding his email address and have shown him that aswell as the private market going for around 11-13K for cars like this there are also examples of damaged unrepaired m3s with higher milage going for around the £6000 mark. THis is without repairs done. I found these on ebays history, and aswell as this there is a cat D repaired car on there at the moment for 7.5K with 3 days left.
All my evidence suggests that the car is worth more than whats offered but i dont know where to go from here really if they come back with the same answer of no more than 6.5K. I would ideally like the £7350 to repair the car and not have this hassle as i would like to keep the car i have. I didnt realise i would be so far out of pocket from someone elses driving mistakes.
any help or comments would be appreciated
rich
I was involved in an accident about 3 weeks ago. I was stationary and someone went into the o/s/r of my car and then slid down the side of it (he was behind me approaching). The car got recovered to the bodyshop and after a few days i got a call to say that the car was a total loss. The estimate was around £10,000. The car is a BMW M3 52plate 2002 car coupe, 49000miles in black, hardtop. I was also aware when i bought the car it was a write off that had been rectified althoug there was no evidence of this. The car drove perfectly and looked amazing.
Now, i bought the car for what i knew was above the value (taking into account the previous writeoff). However after viewing lots of crap this one drove lovely and with no signs of the writeoff i thought it would be ok. I paid £13000 7 months ago. The prices have gone down a little since but not too much i think.
Now, heres my problem. I spokt to the assessor and he said he was offering me £6500 with £780 salvage. I knew a first offer would be low but after a second phone call he said he wasnt willing to raise that figure. I gave him 11 examples of cars with the same age from private buyers with higher milage as i couldnt find any that low. They were around the 11-13000 mark. I alse explained that the only cars around the figure he was offering was one i found on ebay with a blown engine! He then told me that the car had been involved in 2 writeoffs before and that the repair was sub standard because of the amount of filler used (i wasnt aware of this when i bought the car but the panels and gaps looked very straight). He also said there was a power issue that was there before the accident. I was adimant that the pre accident condition was A1 and disputed this but he stuck to his word. He would not offer me any more than the figure.
I told him i couldnt buy any equivalent car with the money he was offering and he said my car was in such a bad way before the accident with a chequered history that there was no equivalent model to my car. I was shocked at this because of how well it drove beforehand, which reflected its low milage. I was also a little annoyed at his attitude as he was so sure the car was in a bad condition beforehand. When i dug further i realised he wasnt the assessor who looked at the car, but rather an inhouse one (whatever that is) who had pictures and a report from the guy who looked at the car.
I then tried to go down a different route. I had previously discussed with the bodyshop the repairs and they agreed to do them for £7350 (contract price). I asked him that instead of writing the car off can i have it repaired at the fixed price of £850 more than he was offering. TO substitute this i would happily give up my £260 a day hire car. He wasnt interested in the hire car price being an independant assessor and still said no to the repairs!
Finally, i have emailed the actual assessor after finding his email address and have shown him that aswell as the private market going for around 11-13K for cars like this there are also examples of damaged unrepaired m3s with higher milage going for around the £6000 mark. THis is without repairs done. I found these on ebays history, and aswell as this there is a cat D repaired car on there at the moment for 7.5K with 3 days left.
All my evidence suggests that the car is worth more than whats offered but i dont know where to go from here really if they come back with the same answer of no more than 6.5K. I would ideally like the £7350 to repair the car and not have this hassle as i would like to keep the car i have. I didnt realise i would be so far out of pocket from someone elses driving mistakes.
any help or comments would be appreciated
rich
Hi there.
This route will ONLY work if you are 100% certain that ALL of the blame lies with the other party.
IF IT DOES
Get onto one of the accident management co.s (not your own insurer) and let them know the details. Odds on they will have a company who will be only too happy to supply you with a car equivalent to the one you were driving. They will bill this to the third party's insurer.
As an example, I was hit from behind when I had a five year old BMW523i.
The company ( I think they were called swift hire) supplied me with a brand new 530d whilst the third party's insurer hmmed and haaed about my car and its value. During one conversation with one of their reps I let it slip that they were paying £130 a day to swift hire whilst we argued over the value of my car. I kid you not within half an hour their senior loss adjustor or something like that was on the phone and asked me what I wanted!!!
I had given £7500 for my BM 4 months and 6000 miles previous.I said that I would take £7250 to allow for depreciation and he agreed without hesitation.
My advice ring one of the no win no fee solictor crowds and you'll get near enough full book for your motor.
This route will ONLY work if you are 100% certain that ALL of the blame lies with the other party.
IF IT DOES
Get onto one of the accident management co.s (not your own insurer) and let them know the details. Odds on they will have a company who will be only too happy to supply you with a car equivalent to the one you were driving. They will bill this to the third party's insurer.
As an example, I was hit from behind when I had a five year old BMW523i.
The company ( I think they were called swift hire) supplied me with a brand new 530d whilst the third party's insurer hmmed and haaed about my car and its value. During one conversation with one of their reps I let it slip that they were paying £130 a day to swift hire whilst we argued over the value of my car. I kid you not within half an hour their senior loss adjustor or something like that was on the phone and asked me what I wanted!!!
I had given £7500 for my BM 4 months and 6000 miles previous.I said that I would take £7250 to allow for depreciation and he agreed without hesitation.
My advice ring one of the no win no fee solictor crowds and you'll get near enough full book for your motor.
As above anniesdad is highly recommended always here.
This seems relevant http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/about/helped...
As the other party is fault they have to put you back in the situation there you were in prior to the accident, or settle financially. I would send them a copy of the receipt for the vehicle, and the many comparisons you have found.
If they don't agree to settle closer to your figure go the the ombudsman, but speak to anniesdad for advice first.
This seems relevant http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/about/helped...
As the other party is fault they have to put you back in the situation there you were in prior to the accident, or settle financially. I would send them a copy of the receipt for the vehicle, and the many comparisons you have found.
If they don't agree to settle closer to your figure go the the ombudsman, but speak to anniesdad for advice first.
You bought a previously written off car that had been badly repaired for top money by the sounds of things.
Not sure how you stand in terms of getting money back from the 3rd party - but I suspect it'll be a very hard fight trying to prove your car is worth anywhere near top book money.
Not sure how you stand in terms of getting money back from the 3rd party - but I suspect it'll be a very hard fight trying to prove your car is worth anywhere near top book money.
I am using a accident management company. Its the first time ive used one but it seems a little more trouble than its worth.
I spoke to Accident advice helpline but the chain to get to the assessor who looked at my car is crazy.
The chain is Me- AAH-Kindertons-JPmorris Assessors-AIA assessors.
I havent really spoke to AAH much to be honest. Kindertons seem like they want to listen, and relay some infomation to the assessors, but dont really "fight my corner". It is them i sent the infomation to and then they sent it to JPmorris. Apparently JP morris have subbed it out to AIA and its this company that have sent an assessor out. The assessor i spoke to for half an hr was from JP morris and he was the one who wouldnt increase the price. He said he couldnt justify it.
Its kindertons who put me in a hire car. They couldnt give me an equivalent because it was over 6yrs but gave me a merc CLS. TO be honest i dont drive enough to be bothered by it and would have happily not bothered with a hire car if it meant i could get a realistic price for my vehicle but kindertons almost forced it on me, so i didnt say no.
I spoke to Accident advice helpline but the chain to get to the assessor who looked at my car is crazy.
The chain is Me- AAH-Kindertons-JPmorris Assessors-AIA assessors.
I havent really spoke to AAH much to be honest. Kindertons seem like they want to listen, and relay some infomation to the assessors, but dont really "fight my corner". It is them i sent the infomation to and then they sent it to JPmorris. Apparently JP morris have subbed it out to AIA and its this company that have sent an assessor out. The assessor i spoke to for half an hr was from JP morris and he was the one who wouldnt increase the price. He said he couldnt justify it.
Its kindertons who put me in a hire car. They couldnt give me an equivalent because it was over 6yrs but gave me a merc CLS. TO be honest i dont drive enough to be bothered by it and would have happily not bothered with a hire car if it meant i could get a realistic price for my vehicle but kindertons almost forced it on me, so i didnt say no.
VeeFour said:
You bought a previously written off car that had been badly repaired for top money by the sounds of things.
Not sure how you stand in terms of getting money back from the 3rd party - but I suspect it'll be a very hard fight trying to prove your car is worth anywhere near top book money.
Im not trying to get book value back, i know i paid over the odds when i bought it but wanted this car for its low milage and the fact nothing was wrong with it at all. TBH i would be happy with the £7350 plus salvage value. I could then just get the bodyshop to repair it myself.Not sure how you stand in terms of getting money back from the 3rd party - but I suspect it'll be a very hard fight trying to prove your car is worth anywhere near top book money.
edo said:
Another tack is to ask them to find you a car, since you cant.
Did your car have a condition check once the last repair was done - cant recall the name, but it says its been repaired to a good standard?
before i managed to ask him that he came out with that. Did your car have a condition check once the last repair was done - cant recall the name, but it says its been repaired to a good standard?
his words were along the lines of: "so you want me to find you a car that has been written off twice before with a sub standard repair, and an electrical fault. Isnt going to happen is it". (This was before i verified from the bodyshop that there was no electrical issue.)
I never had a post accident report done as my main thought was if it drives looks and feels good and solid then im happy. His argument is that these are enthusiasts cars and history is everything therefore with a "chequered" history its not worth anything.
I told him that he is valuing my pre-accident car as the cheapest and therefore worst in the country. That he is putting my car between an m3 i found on ebay with a blown engine (for£6000) and ones that are auctioned as salvage (with damage still present and higher milage, which were around £7-7500). He then just repeated his points.
Sound like the assessors being a complete a
hole and thinks he's doing the insurance company some sort of favor.
At £260 a day for the hire car they must want it sorted quickly, is there any limit to the time you can hold on to the hire car?
Have you tried speaking to someone higher up who's looking at the whole picture. If you bought the car 7 months ago and it's a non fault claim I'd be wanting very close to what you paid for it
hole and thinks he's doing the insurance company some sort of favor. At £260 a day for the hire car they must want it sorted quickly, is there any limit to the time you can hold on to the hire car?
Have you tried speaking to someone higher up who's looking at the whole picture. If you bought the car 7 months ago and it's a non fault claim I'd be wanting very close to what you paid for it
Can you confirm that you are driving about in a Merc at their expense?
if so just tell the assessor that you will leave it with your solicitor to sort out.Drive away at the Merc at their expense.trust me someone will see sense.Even if the merc is "only" a hundred quid a day it wont take long til they see sense.
if so just tell the assessor that you will leave it with your solicitor to sort out.Drive away at the Merc at their expense.trust me someone will see sense.Even if the merc is "only" a hundred quid a day it wont take long til they see sense.
You'll find more information here http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/publications...
However, it might not be the information you want to find, here are some of the salient points:
However, it might not be the information you want to find, here are some of the salient points:
The Financial Ombudsman Service said:
14. vehicles previously "written-off" and then repaired
Most buyers are (rightly or wrongly) put off by the knowledge that a vehicle was previously "written-off", no matter how well it was later repaired – and this can affect its value.
If the policyholder knew the vehicle was a repaired write-off, he/she is likely to have paid less for it. So we are likely to decide that it is not unfair for the insurer to make an appropriate deduction – not more than 20%, unless the insurer can provide good independent evidence for a higher deduction.
But if we are satisfied that the policyholder innocently bought (and insured) the vehicle in complete ignorance of its history, and the repairs were not obviously noticeable, he/she is likely to have paid full price (and a full insurance premium) for it. So we are likely to decide that it would be unfair for the insurer to pay less than the full market value.
Most buyers are (rightly or wrongly) put off by the knowledge that a vehicle was previously "written-off", no matter how well it was later repaired – and this can affect its value.
If the policyholder knew the vehicle was a repaired write-off, he/she is likely to have paid less for it. So we are likely to decide that it is not unfair for the insurer to make an appropriate deduction – not more than 20%, unless the insurer can provide good independent evidence for a higher deduction.
But if we are satisfied that the policyholder innocently bought (and insured) the vehicle in complete ignorance of its history, and the repairs were not obviously noticeable, he/she is likely to have paid full price (and a full insurance premium) for it. So we are likely to decide that it would be unfair for the insurer to pay less than the full market value.
The Financial Ombudsman Service said:
We do not usually find advertisements for similar vehicles very persuasive. A vehicle may often be sold for less than the advertised price. And small differences in mileage, year of registration, model type etc - can significantly affect the value.
richierex said:
He also said there was a power issue that was there before the accident. I was adimant that the pre accident condition was A1 and disputed this but he stuck to his word.
Why do they keep saying it's got a fault - what's making them think that?The Accident Management company is supposed to be helping you here - that's the whole point of them.
Watch you don't get stiffed for the hire car charges - you'll have signed something when they dropped off the car to say you'll pay if they can't recover from the 3rd party.
edo said:
Reading the post above may help a little ie the FOS don't find adverts particularly convincing, so why should an assessor?The main reason is that there is a built in margin, so the price on the windscreen is unlikely to be the price you actually pay.
He won't find you another car, there is no compulsion on him to do so, nor is it part of the contract you agreed to in your purchase of insurance.
an update:
After speaking to kindertons this evening i have been told that i may ask for a "payment in lieu" from the third party. The assessor is going to work out this figure tommorow and pass it to them. Apparently if they see the payment is say 7000-7500 then they may consider paying that as it means the hire car charges will stop fron the day i receive the cheque. I was told by them that if i didnt agree with the assessors total loss value then i could go straight to the third party and ask them. However, if their assessor values it less then i wont be able to go to the original figure of 6500.
Seems like a complete waste of time using an accident help specialist as they just seem to be out for what they can get and not interseted in helping me.
After speaking to kindertons this evening i have been told that i may ask for a "payment in lieu" from the third party. The assessor is going to work out this figure tommorow and pass it to them. Apparently if they see the payment is say 7000-7500 then they may consider paying that as it means the hire car charges will stop fron the day i receive the cheque. I was told by them that if i didnt agree with the assessors total loss value then i could go straight to the third party and ask them. However, if their assessor values it less then i wont be able to go to the original figure of 6500.
Seems like a complete waste of time using an accident help specialist as they just seem to be out for what they can get and not interseted in helping me.
should i be allowed to discuss matters with the third party myself? If i could explain to the third party insurance that i would happily stop the hire car costs for the extra 850 (so a cheque for £7350 in lieu) then that will save them possibly thousands in the mean time. Im not sure if this breaks any contract with kindertons or AAH though.
I feel as though i shouldnt have to fight my corner and make this call anyway, but when i speak to kindertons they really dont seem that bothered in phoning the third party and speaking to them anyway :s
I feel as though i shouldnt have to fight my corner and make this call anyway, but when i speak to kindertons they really dont seem that bothered in phoning the third party and speaking to them anyway :s
richierex said:
should i be allowed to discuss matters with the third party myself? If i could explain to the third party insurance that i would happily stop the hire car costs for the extra 850 (so a cheque for £7350 in lieu) then that will save them possibly thousands in the mean time. Im not sure if this breaks any contract with kindertons or AAH though.
I feel as though i shouldnt have to fight my corner and make this call anyway, but when i speak to kindertons they really dont seem that bothered in phoning the third party and speaking to them anyway :s
Of course they're not bothered. They earn off the hire car and the longer you're in it the better off they are. Who instructed the assessor?I feel as though i shouldnt have to fight my corner and make this call anyway, but when i speak to kindertons they really dont seem that bothered in phoning the third party and speaking to them anyway :s
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