BMW M3 Coupe e92 Ex-Demo - To buy or Not to Buy?!?

[waterwonder]

volvoforlife said:

If a car has had 1 previous private owner from new, I can almost guarantee that the person looked after the car and didn't rag it from cold. They had so much money invested in it, it would be against all common sense to treat it like crap.

Salesman DO NOT EVER follow the run-in procedure. They will receive a new car and rag it while its only done a few miles and cold.

"DO NOT EVER" is a bit strong. Your other statement isr dubious at best, i know/see a significant amount of people who rag their car from new/cold.

In December most people I saw were bouncing of the rev limiter for a whole week (it was snowing).

[VeeFour]

volvoforlife said:

If a car has had 1 previous private owner from new, I can almost guarantee that the person looked after the car and didn't rag it from cold. They had so much money invested in it, it would be against all common sense to treat it like crap.

Absolute rubbish - if someone trades their car in before the warranty is up, then they can trash it like a rental without any concerns at all.

[bakes]

Stop being a pussy and just buy the thing Tom! You can't red line an M3 from cold anyway as it has a rev limiter, you have a main dealer warranty for peace of mind and it's an engine that's made to be pushed to the limits!
Plus, it's a beautiful thing and will go down a treat with " the ladies"

[tomw25]

bakes said:

Stop being a pussy and just buy the thing Tom! You can't red line an M3 from cold anyway as it has a rev limiter, you have a main dealer warranty for peace of mind and it's an engine that's made to be pushed to the limits!
Plus, it's a beautiful thing and will go down a treat with " the ladies"

Thanks Bakes, I'm just being thorough !

[MrLou]

Buy it.

[RobM77]

Not sure about the E90, as I've only ever driven one that had a warm engine when I got in it, but when I test drove an E46 M3 I was very surprised at how fast the rpm limiter lights went out. I reckon within about 3 or 4 minutes I had full revs available - was it truly cold? Does the oil and water in the engine really heat up that fast?

Besides, it's not just ragging from cold that you need to worry about, it's general maltreatment of the car. Even a warm engine will wear significantly faster at high revs than low revs - for example the wear on track for a road engine is usually assumed to be around 10 times that of on the road (i.e. 1,000 track miles equals 10,000 road miles). Plus you've got suspension crashing over speed bumps, damage caused by dry steering to the steering mechanism, fat people clambering in and out over the side bolsters of the seats etc etc. It just seems like a lot of money to spend on the "town bike" to me...

Great cars though, they really are, I absolutely adore them.

[SteveS Cup]

markmullen said:

SteveS Cup said:

I push a car on a test drive further than I'd push my own car.

So you rag a car that you don't know with someone who has no idea about your driving talent (or lack of) sitting next to you? You'd be walking home from a demo if you put me in danger.

No, I'd judge how the Salesman had driven it initially, then I'd get comfortable in it, but yes, I'd give it some and as I say, I'd probably give it more from a relatively cold engine than I would my own car.

I've never had a Salesman say to me "I need to change may pants"... I'm not an idiot.

But who in their right mind would go and test drive a "performance" car and not test the performance?

If the car is a good car, 9 times out of 10 the salesman has encouraged me to give it some etc. The Lotus dealer told me not to brake so early and to get on the power sooner.

So no, I wouldn't put someone in danger and I wouldn't rag a car completely un-known to me. I said I'd "push" the car a bit further than I would my own. But as you have no idea how I drive my own car that statement means nothing to you.

[wolves_wanderer]

RobM77 said:

Not sure about the E90, as I've only ever driven one that had a warm engine when I got in it, but when I test drove an E46 M3 I was very surprised at how fast the rpm limiter lights went out. I reckon within about 3 or 4 minutes I had full revs available - was it truly cold? Does the oil and water in the engine really heat up that fast?

On mine there is a rev limit at about 4k for literally a few seconds after a cold start which then disappears and gives access to the full range. A friend had an E46 M3 and the lights went out quickly on that as you say, but surely there is a reason why the limits move as quickly as they do - the engineers must know more about it than us?

[MarJay]

volvoforlife said:

If a car has had 1 previous private owner from new, I can almost guarantee that the person looked after the car and didn't rag it from cold. They had so much money invested in it, it would be against all common sense to treat it like crap.

Salesman DO NOT EVER follow the run-in procedure. They will receive a new car and rag it while its only done a few miles and cold.

If you buy an ex-demo car then you've got more balls than me. Frankly I don't care what everyone does. You buy what you want. But don't ask for an opinion and then flame me for having one.

Do cars have run in procedures these days? I know motorcycles do, but I thought most cars don't bother these days, or they are run in at the factory?

[RobM77]

wolves_wanderer said:

RobM77 said:

Not sure about the E90, as I've only ever driven one that had a warm engine when I got in it, but when I test drove an E46 M3 I was very surprised at how fast the rpm limiter lights went out. I reckon within about 3 or 4 minutes I had full revs available - was it truly cold? Does the oil and water in the engine really heat up that fast?

On mine there is a rev limit at about 4k for literally a few seconds after a cold start which then disappears and gives access to the full range. A friend had an E46 M3 and the lights went out quickly on that as you say, but surely there is a reason why the limits move as quickly as they do - the engineers must know more about it than us?

Thanks, so the one I test drove was probably cold when I arrived at the dealership... I was always told that it took around 10-15 minutes for the average engine to reach operating temperature (note that the oil temp lags behind the water), which is very different to the lights on the M3. If the lights are indeed optimistic, then there's even the argument that it's encouraging people to thrash their cars when the temperatures aren't really high enough.

[marcosgt]

I always think of "Ex Demo" as a positive thing, personally.

It's another owner, but probably less miles than the average owner puts on a car, better care (usually kept scrupuliously clean inside and out) and serviced (if needed) on the button. Any faults that arise will have been put right, whereas a private owner might just live with them.

As others have said, demo cars are often extras loaded to encourage buyers to invest in those extras when they buy.

M.

[volvoforlife]

When I was at Audi, the salesmen used to boast how they can rag the cars even with a couple of miles on and they're 'fine'. It clearly says in the manual to take it easy in the first 1000 miles. How do they know its fine? They get sold before a problem comes up.

When has a salesman ever told you anything different than "this car has been properly looked after". They don't know st about the previous owners or the people who took the car out for 'track day style' test drives.

When I took my car to the Porsche Centre for a service they were letting people out in the new Boxster Spyder and ragging the nuts off it. You could hear how hard it was being driven from miles away. The next week it was for sale as an ex-demo

[RobM77]

marcosgt said:

I always think of "Ex Demo" as a positive thing, personally.

It's another owner, but probably less miles than the average owner puts on a car, better care (usually kept scrupuliously clean inside and out) and serviced (if needed) on the button. Any faults that arise will have been put right, whereas a private owner might just live with them.

As others have said, demo cars are often extras loaded to encourage buyers to invest in those extras when they buy.

M.

Fair point, but don't forget that a private owner from new will have a warranty, so will get important things fixed with minimum hassle, and BMW don't skimp on that. For example, I've just bought my Dad's 3 series off him when it reached 3 years old, and about halfway through ownership my Dad complained to the dealer that the gearbox was a bit sticky. The dealership replaced the gearbox and the clutch under the warranty

[jamieboy]

I wouldn't worry too much about it.

My Alfa GTV V6 was a press car when they were launched - surely likely to suffer worse abuse than a demonstrator - and it suffered no ill-effects at all.

[RobM77]

hora said:

Re private owners ragging a performance car royally.

How tiring is it to drive everywhere at 'ragging nuts speeds'?

It gets tiring after a while doesn't it? I doubt anyone (on here) can honestly say they do 12,000 HARD raging miles a year in their own performance car?

Plus think of the percentage of those miles that are spent sitting at a constant speed on the motorway, or with the girlfriend/wife in the passenger seat, clients, pets etc. Those sorts of miles are very kind to the car. Then contrast that with the sum of 48 seperate 250 mile loans where someone steps out of a 325i into the M3 for a blast....

[Wills2]

Most performance cars will have had their legs stretched, but that's OK as they are designed for it, I wouldn't really worry about it.

Regardless of what the log book says, you really have no idea how the car has been treated before you got it, and if that bothers you so much just buy a new one.

[Jobbo]

It's had the same number of owners whether or not one of them was the supplying dealer, so the same issue about number of owners when you come to sell it.

I'm not sure there's any particular reason for complaint about the dealer not revealing this info either. Didn't you check the V5 registration document?

Anyway, I'd far rather buy a car which had been a demo then had a private owner than one which had two private owners.

[Mr Whippy]

My car was a demo at first, then the second owner seemed a bit of a spaz from the state of some bits of the car when I bought it.

BUT, I've rectified spazzy issues from previous owner, and it's (touch wood), been solid as a rock.

Just make sure you give a car a good look over. If it's got something wrong with it that is a really big issue, it's not gonna be easy or possible to hide it.

Dave