RE: Toyota Shows Off FT-86 'II'
Discussion
FT-86 G Sports Concept in single colour but minus the spoiler for me I think.
Maybe I'm not the target audience but having done the MR2 and Supra I'd be really happy to move back to the brand with something like this - perhaps they will offer a range of them with different looks to please the masses? A mini-Aston with none of the wings and whistles or an angular tuner car with all the stickers and trinkets?
Perhaps this is their Mini, a number of blank canvas cars with a full wardrobe of options?
Maybe I'm not the target audience but having done the MR2 and Supra I'd be really happy to move back to the brand with something like this - perhaps they will offer a range of them with different looks to please the masses? A mini-Aston with none of the wings and whistles or an angular tuner car with all the stickers and trinkets?
Perhaps this is their Mini, a number of blank canvas cars with a full wardrobe of options?
briers said:
993 T said:
Wolf in sheeps clothing comes to mind, which is a shame because I'm sure toyota can make an efficient and cheap enough car with 250-300BHP, I doubt this one will top 200, it will be Golf GTi Quick
It better not be. It should be lighter, 250bhp minimum and well balanced for superb handling. If it doesn't hit that spot there is no way I would buy it. And I really want toyota to get this right because I'm a 6 or 8 cylinder guy.
The performance expectations for this car that many people have seem way to high.
Edited by Fittster on Wednesday 2nd March 21:08
otolith said:
They do - it's called a Mazda 6 MPS...In order to still be a proper four seater it has to be a more conventional saloon shape
So you're saying that it's impossible to make a conventionally-engined RWD coupé? the 6 MPS isn't even RWD - it's really not the same kind of thing at all.Fittster said:
The performance expectations for this car that many people have seem way to high.
Not really... The game has moved on so much, I really doubt this will have over 200bhp, and it wont be as light as people want it to be. It just cant be, it will have bags of safety features, solid Toyota build quality, 4 seats etc etc. A Cayman 2.9 with Aluminium doors and bonnet, only 2 seats and 260bhp is about 1350kgs. That does 60 in 6. The Toyota wont be lighter.Edited by Fittster on Wednesday 2nd March 21:08
Now of course, I don't expect this to be a Cayman alternative, What this car does have is the potential for a great fun tail happy drive.
I would love for Toyota to build a new Supra, They were planning one a few years ago:
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_vGT0PWLIYhA/TEEdpF-3n7I/...
If the base model is much over 200bhp with a price to match, I think they will have lost the plot with this. To my mind, what the market needs is a nice RWD coupe with roughly Golf GTi performance and a Golf GTi price tag. Basically, an RX8 with reasonable economy and an engine that people trust the reliability of.
0-60 in around six and a half seconds would be fine. If you want to go faster and have the money to pay for it, there are plenty of other options out there.
0-60 in around six and a half seconds would be fine. If you want to go faster and have the money to pay for it, there are plenty of other options out there.
Clivey said:
So you're saying that it's impossible to make a conventionally-engined RWD coupé? the 6 MPS isn't even RWD - it's really not the same kind of thing at all.
No, I'm saying that it wouldn't be like an RX-8, because the whole architecture of the car hinges on the dimensions of the engine. You could make something different, with a different set of compromises, like having token rear seats or poorer handling or a coarser engine or some combination of those compromises.Why don't you just buy a 3-series coupe, since that's pretty much as good as you're going to get with that layout?
Edited by otolith on Wednesday 2nd March 23:26
otolith said:
Clivey said:
So you're saying that it's impossible to make a conventionally-engined RWD coupé? the 6 MPS isn't even RWD - it's really not the same kind of thing at all.
No, I'm saying that it wouldn't be like an RX-8, because the whole architecture of the car hinges on the dimensions of the engine. You could make something different, with a different set of compromises, like having token rear seats or poorer handling or a coarser engine or some combination of those compromises.There is a nice shape under there Perhaps the after-market boys can turn from adding bling to removing it.
The running lights are truly hideous...
We've plenty of cars that are quick, if you want a old-school cheap(ish) sports car there isn't much about - manual, small engine, RWD, light, small, reliable and involving to drive.
The running lights are truly hideous...
We've plenty of cars that are quick, if you want a old-school cheap(ish) sports car there isn't much about - manual, small engine, RWD, light, small, reliable and involving to drive.
otolith said:
hornetrider said:
How about everything else the same only with a slightly higher bonnet line? Doesn't seem like rocket science to me.
Have you ever looked under an RX-8 bonnet?Olivera said:
I think the FT-86 looks fantastic, but can't help feeling the UK will end up with a 23 grand 160bhp version... Could be great, but needs at least 200bhp and a competative price.
We will. An 2.0 MX5 with a metal roof is £20,000, I can't see this being cheaper. Rumours are that the Subaru version is going to have a CVT gearbox, which fits with their business plan of building cars nobody wants.hornetrider said:
Why would I need to? The 8 and 6 aren't vastly different in size. The 6 has staid styling, the 8 looks great. I see no reason why as a design concept that an 8 could be slightly redesigned to have enough room under the front for a 6 engine. Or, to take the example more extreme, why a 6 could not look like an 8 from the A-pillar back.
It's not a slight redesign, you'd have to completely change the proportions of the car. The best you could do is to carry over the styling cues, which Mazda have already done to everything they build.The RX-8 does what it does and is what it is because the tiny engine allows it to be. If you redesigned it around a conventional engine, you'd get something very much like a BMW 3-series coupe in architecture. Which is a fine thing, but you want one of those, BMW already make one.
It's like thinking that the 535D is brilliant, but would be better with a naturally aspirated petrol engine so you could have the fuel economy and torque and a nice noise - you can't have everything.
My standpoint is this. Firstly, I love the idea. It's a MX-5 coupe, not a RWD Impreza, so I really hope it doesn't have more than 200bhp otherwise it will make ownership costs expensive, and there are plenty of options already for that segment.
Also, if they sell a low powered version with excellent emissions figures as standard, then sell all the go faster bits afterwards as factory upgrades, can everyone build the car how they want afterwithout the EU sticking their nose in?
They sell a car with 150g/km which pleases the eco-Nazis, but then if the buyers tune them up to produce 300g/km, well thats not Toyotas fault is it?
Given that this is marketed at my age group, who usually like tinkering with their cars anyway, it doesn't seem like an unrealistic gameplan.
Also, if they sell a low powered version with excellent emissions figures as standard, then sell all the go faster bits afterwards as factory upgrades, can everyone build the car how they want afterwithout the EU sticking their nose in?
They sell a car with 150g/km which pleases the eco-Nazis, but then if the buyers tune them up to produce 300g/km, well thats not Toyotas fault is it?
Given that this is marketed at my age group, who usually like tinkering with their cars anyway, it doesn't seem like an unrealistic gameplan.
otolith said:
No, I'm saying that it wouldn't be like an RX-8, because the whole architecture of the car hinges on the dimensions of the engine. You could make something different, with a different set of compromises, like having token rear seats or poorer handling or a coarser engine or some combination of those compromises.
I think we're talking cross purposes here. I don't care about rear seats - I just want a conventionally-engined (petrol) RWD coupé, with a boot that can take the weekly shopping, that weighs less than 1,500Kg. This would enable to to have decent performance from a 200BHP 2.0 (or thereabouts) engine.otolith said:
Why don't you just buy a 3-series coupe, since that's pretty much as good as you're going to get with that layout?
I'm tempted...but if Toyota could make a lighter car without the rear seats, it would probably offer better performance relative to the costs.Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff