Company car dilema, what to get?
Discussion
Legacywr said:
This will be MY car, but bought with company money. Don't we all drive the best car we can?
If you won't be happy with a diesel hack then you get what you want, don't listen to the PH experts it's your money after all. (Tax)I have just done the same thing but I opted for a boring diesel, after 1200 miles though I'm quite liking it!
VeeFour said:
Legacywr said:
This will be MY car, but bought with company money. Don't we all drive the best car we can?
If you're worried about BIK charges, then it belongs to the company. So you're paying £400 / month for something you don't own.
My philosophy with company cars it to pay as little in tax as possible - so when the CC goes back in October, I'm getting a hybrid.
Wills2 said:
Incorrect, I've just taken delivery of a company car paid for in cash £37.5k and have just ordered another again this will be paid for in cash.
But you only pay benefit in kind tax on an asset your using as a perk from the company. The govt do not bik tax you on your own car. If you opt out of comp car you will be taxed under paye. Does the company pay for the car insurance and for anyone inthe company able to drive your car, do they tax service and replace tyres and breakdown cover and if you leave the comp do you just hand the keys to them that's it?
Welshbeef said:
Wills2 said:
Incorrect, I've just taken delivery of a company car paid for in cash £37.5k and have just ordered another again this will be paid for in cash.
But you only pay benefit in kind tax on an asset your using as a perk from the company. The govt do not bik tax you on your own car. If you opt out of comp car you will be taxed under paye. Does the company pay for the car insurance and for anyone inthe company able to drive your car, do they tax service and replace tyres and breakdown cover and if you leave the comp do you just hand the keys to them that's it?
Of course I pay tax on it.
My point was you seem to think all company cars are leased, well they aren't.
Legacywr said:
My philosophy is, within reason, have the best car you can. Surely you see what I'm getting at?
Not really - it's a business tool, not your car, and you're just handing over £400+ per month over to the government so you can have use of a flash car for a while.That's £200 more than you need to hand over for a more than decent company car.
I understand paying money for something you own, not for something that doesn't belong to you.
With the car issues I've had over the last four years in hindsight I should have opted in I would have been better off and far less hassle for me.
I did look the other day at the co car options and I thought what's the cheapest car possible to run for company hacking. A vw polo bluemotion - so so cheap and nice enough interior 86mpg combined. Then I could have a second fun car whereas I've a 330d which is a great one car option fast enough and great economy for the pace BUT it's not oh my god 400-500bhp fast.
I did look the other day at the co car options and I thought what's the cheapest car possible to run for company hacking. A vw polo bluemotion - so so cheap and nice enough interior 86mpg combined. Then I could have a second fun car whereas I've a 330d which is a great one car option fast enough and great economy for the pace BUT it's not oh my god 400-500bhp fast.
I think the point people are making is say the sti you mention that's what a 7-10 year old car and your paying £400pcm to run it.
Buying it privatly outright would be far far cheaper so I guess people are at odds with the logic. We clearly understand the desire to run a high powered petrol car however you clearly know the co car tax rules hammer the employee for making that choice and the gentle financial encouragement to run hybrids or diesels is blatant.
You should choose say something like an e type jag db5/4 really as that makes a lot of sense and would be very cheap to do and to be running lovely cars, sti suburu just isn't in the same league
Buying it privatly outright would be far far cheaper so I guess people are at odds with the logic. We clearly understand the desire to run a high powered petrol car however you clearly know the co car tax rules hammer the employee for making that choice and the gentle financial encouragement to run hybrids or diesels is blatant.
You should choose say something like an e type jag db5/4 really as that makes a lot of sense and would be very cheap to do and to be running lovely cars, sti suburu just isn't in the same league
So.. another customer and I are both at Litchfield Imports picking up our new, exactly the same, WRX STI Spec C's, and we both drive off.
Over the following year the other customer has to pay out for insurance, £1000. Fuel, £50 p/w, £2600 p/y. 2 tyres, £300. Service, £200. DEPRICIATION, £4000!
The above figures are quite conserative, but that's at least £8100 in a year. That same car has cost me £5000!
Over the following year the other customer has to pay out for insurance, £1000. Fuel, £50 p/w, £2600 p/y. 2 tyres, £300. Service, £200. DEPRICIATION, £4000!
The above figures are quite conserative, but that's at least £8100 in a year. That same car has cost me £5000!
Welshbeef said:
You should choose say something like an db5/4 really as that makes a lot of sense and would be very cheap to do and to be running lovely cars, sti suburu just isn't in the same league
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2558664.htm
I hope he works for Goldman Sachs, Got anymore practical suggestions?
On the other hand, if you can swap the car for a cash allowance, and claim back 40p / mile for business use, you could well be much better off - especially if you buy something a year or two old.
I've done this in the past - and ended up with a paid for car, that was only 5 years old, which I could hand over to Mrs VeeFour when it was time to change.
I've done this in the past - and ended up with a paid for car, that was only 5 years old, which I could hand over to Mrs VeeFour when it was time to change.
VeeFour said:
On the other hand, if you can swap the car for a cash allowance, and claim back 40p / mile for business use, you could well be much better off - especially if you buy something a year or two old.
I've done this in the past - and ended up with a paid for car, that was only 5 years old, which I could hand over to Mrs VeeFour when it was time to change.
But the OP can't get a cash allowance. I've done this in the past - and ended up with a paid for car, that was only 5 years old, which I could hand over to Mrs VeeFour when it was time to change.
OP, I entirely see your point.
You can have a nice Eco BMW cost *TO YOU* is £50/week or get the car you want for £100/week. You have clearly stated that in your opinion the Subaru is worth the extra £50 a week.
I don't understand most of the responses here either.
What most of the posters are saying is: "You are mad to get the car you want, it will cost you £50 a week more than some other choice." Well if that's the case then we all need to drive about in 1 litre Pandas
FFS.
EFA
I suspect the reason people don't get it is because they are in a different situation to the op i.e.
Either
A
They can either trade out and get something nicer i.e. even with a half decent allowance and .40p per miles / no tax on similar kind of figures you could get a good Porsche 911 ( last 996 early 997)
B
People would prefer to have a second car, that they would own after a couple of years i.e. for the difference between an average company car and say a subaru
Lastly I guess to the op's comments " don't we all aspire to having the est car we can" if many others had 30k (mentally or in reality) to spend the best they could get would not be a golf or a small citroen.
For me if I had to have a company car it would be either a 15 year old 911
or a M3 and hang the cost on Tax, I would have to have thee best I could !!!
Or I would just find a way of opting out come hell or high water !! and then get something fun
Phib
Either
A
They can either trade out and get something nicer i.e. even with a half decent allowance and .40p per miles / no tax on similar kind of figures you could get a good Porsche 911 ( last 996 early 997)
B
People would prefer to have a second car, that they would own after a couple of years i.e. for the difference between an average company car and say a subaru
Lastly I guess to the op's comments " don't we all aspire to having the est car we can" if many others had 30k (mentally or in reality) to spend the best they could get would not be a golf or a small citroen.
For me if I had to have a company car it would be either a 15 year old 911
or a M3 and hang the cost on Tax, I would have to have thee best I could !!!
Or I would just find a way of opting out come hell or high water !! and then get something fun
Phib
I think the point is it's £400pcm in bik tax plus if you opted out say gross you might get £500pcm say net pf tax £300pcm.
Therefore that sti is costing you a real taxed income outgoing of £700pcm. Which is quite a lot. I'm sure £8,400pa over the three years you would keep the co car would mean you have equity in the car vs if it was a co car you'd have zero. Therefore financially you would be better off.
And given you are high up director etc of your comp there is no reason why the comp wouldn't allow opting out you win financially and the company makes no difference.
You could contract hire an M3 for the amount your happy on spending on an sti and that's a brand new m3 so you could make further savings but even new it totally stacks up
Where it doesn't is if you lose your job you are still liable for the cost whereas co car hand those keys back.
I really should have doe the numbers first then this thread would have died quickly as it's very expensive to run say an sti on co car scheme to the point privatly you could have a car worth notably more and a much better and more desirable car
Therefore that sti is costing you a real taxed income outgoing of £700pcm. Which is quite a lot. I'm sure £8,400pa over the three years you would keep the co car would mean you have equity in the car vs if it was a co car you'd have zero. Therefore financially you would be better off.
And given you are high up director etc of your comp there is no reason why the comp wouldn't allow opting out you win financially and the company makes no difference.
You could contract hire an M3 for the amount your happy on spending on an sti and that's a brand new m3 so you could make further savings but even new it totally stacks up
Where it doesn't is if you lose your job you are still liable for the cost whereas co car hand those keys back.
I really should have doe the numbers first then this thread would have died quickly as it's very expensive to run say an sti on co car scheme to the point privatly you could have a car worth notably more and a much better and more desirable car
I've run some quick company cars and also had some time opted out.
I'm completely with the OP on this one - if you're used to paying out big bucks running your own (fast) car, why the problem paying a big tax bill if it means you get to drive something you like?
My previous Co car was a Mk5 Golf GTI, current Co car is an Octavia VRS petrol.
Parked up in our corporate car park I'm surrounded by diesel vws, audis, minis and hybrids. For most people the BIK is the main driver. For me, its performance. I really don't care that my petrol vrs costs £30 a month more than a diesel.
Just a further consideration for the OP - the cars you list all have very high c02 which means big tax. If you get something with lower c02 but then add some mods you'd get similar performance for a lot less cash.
.. I'm thinking: Focus ST + moutune instead of RS, Golf GTI + remap etc. Just a thought.
I'm completely with the OP on this one - if you're used to paying out big bucks running your own (fast) car, why the problem paying a big tax bill if it means you get to drive something you like?
My previous Co car was a Mk5 Golf GTI, current Co car is an Octavia VRS petrol.
Parked up in our corporate car park I'm surrounded by diesel vws, audis, minis and hybrids. For most people the BIK is the main driver. For me, its performance. I really don't care that my petrol vrs costs £30 a month more than a diesel.
Just a further consideration for the OP - the cars you list all have very high c02 which means big tax. If you get something with lower c02 but then add some mods you'd get similar performance for a lot less cash.
.. I'm thinking: Focus ST + moutune instead of RS, Golf GTI + remap etc. Just a thought.
Welshbeef said:
I think the point is it's £400pcm in bik tax plus if you opted out say gross you might get £500pcm say net pf tax £300pcm.
Therefore that sti is costing you a real taxed income outgoing of £700pcm. Which is quite a lot. I'm sure £8,400pa over the three years you would keep the co car would mean you have equity in the car vs if it was a co car you'd have zero. Therefore financially you would be better off.
And given you are high up director etc of your comp there is no reason why the comp wouldn't allow opting out you win financially and the company makes no difference.
You could contract hire an M3 for the amount your happy on spending on an sti and that's a brand new m3 so you could make further savings but even new it totally stacks up
Where it doesn't is if you lose your job you are still liable for the cost whereas co car hand those keys back.
I really should have doe the numbers first then this thread would have died quickly as it's very expensive to run say an sti on co car scheme to the point privatly you could have a car worth notably more and a much better and more desirable car
Only if the OP can opt out. I thought the OP could not opt out.Therefore that sti is costing you a real taxed income outgoing of £700pcm. Which is quite a lot. I'm sure £8,400pa over the three years you would keep the co car would mean you have equity in the car vs if it was a co car you'd have zero. Therefore financially you would be better off.
And given you are high up director etc of your comp there is no reason why the comp wouldn't allow opting out you win financially and the company makes no difference.
You could contract hire an M3 for the amount your happy on spending on an sti and that's a brand new m3 so you could make further savings but even new it totally stacks up
Where it doesn't is if you lose your job you are still liable for the cost whereas co car hand those keys back.
I really should have doe the numbers first then this thread would have died quickly as it's very expensive to run say an sti on co car scheme to the point privatly you could have a car worth notably more and a much better and more desirable car
OP: Can you opt out of the scheme and get gross salary equivalent?
OP,
I'm in exactly the same position.
My last 3 company cars have been:
Seat Leon Cupra R (2003) (£18k list)
Subaru Impreza GB270 Wagon, PPP etc (2007) (£23k list)
Alfa Romeo 159 ti Wagon (2008) (£28k list)
I try to avoid too higher tax bill by choosing something with lowish list, and as I'm a PH'er, sod the emissions.
This went wonky when i bought the Alfa, as after driving the impreza for a year i needed something more comfortable. (It was just awful)
The Alfa is a very well equipped 2.4 diesel, so better on emissions but offset by higher list. Tax is lower on the £28k alfa then on the fuel sucking cheaper cars. I put up with the diesel daily as i have an Elise and a race car.
Recently i looked at changing, and I always consider year old cars too as you get the value for the company. (it's our company after all, so it's out money to look after)
I've considered a Golf R or Audi S3, but i just don't do German. (see car history above, i like value for money which rules out germans).
S4 just gets a bit too pricey.
So i think it's going to come down to buying a Honda CR-Z and paying practically no tax, and waiting a year for a C63 AMG estate i'll buy privately. (look at the tax on them if you need sobering up)
Practically no useful statements in this post i know, but i'll try one:
instead of Golf R, look at Octavia VRS or Leon Cupra R.
I'm in exactly the same position.
My last 3 company cars have been:
Seat Leon Cupra R (2003) (£18k list)
Subaru Impreza GB270 Wagon, PPP etc (2007) (£23k list)
Alfa Romeo 159 ti Wagon (2008) (£28k list)
I try to avoid too higher tax bill by choosing something with lowish list, and as I'm a PH'er, sod the emissions.
This went wonky when i bought the Alfa, as after driving the impreza for a year i needed something more comfortable. (It was just awful)
The Alfa is a very well equipped 2.4 diesel, so better on emissions but offset by higher list. Tax is lower on the £28k alfa then on the fuel sucking cheaper cars. I put up with the diesel daily as i have an Elise and a race car.
Recently i looked at changing, and I always consider year old cars too as you get the value for the company. (it's our company after all, so it's out money to look after)
I've considered a Golf R or Audi S3, but i just don't do German. (see car history above, i like value for money which rules out germans).
S4 just gets a bit too pricey.
So i think it's going to come down to buying a Honda CR-Z and paying practically no tax, and waiting a year for a C63 AMG estate i'll buy privately. (look at the tax on them if you need sobering up)
Practically no useful statements in this post i know, but i'll try one:
instead of Golf R, look at Octavia VRS or Leon Cupra R.
I don't know of any co car scheme which allows modification of a car. Remember the comp will have a STD fleet INS policy they will not accept the hassle of sorting out modified car INS plus some the the younger drivers who nay have tp drive this car makes it unviable. And as it is a co car your car has to be availabel to all other co car drivers as and when required. Look at your t&c's.
I'm struggling with the you want value from a year old car, why you don't own it you pay tax on the list price so you may as well get the comp to buy you a new one why go old?
Plus will your comp accept you running a co car which will end up being two years out of warranty over the usual one? Plus the higher miles could mean they have to change it sooner plus higher maintence costs for the comp.
You really need to look at the t&c's in detail carefully.
I'm struggling with the you want value from a year old car, why you don't own it you pay tax on the list price so you may as well get the comp to buy you a new one why go old?
Plus will your comp accept you running a co car which will end up being two years out of warranty over the usual one? Plus the higher miles could mean they have to change it sooner plus higher maintence costs for the comp.
You really need to look at the t&c's in detail carefully.
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