RE: Driven: Aston Martin V8 Vantage S
Discussion
TomTVR500 said:
Yep it was just a little rant about paddle shifts. As a petrolhead i love all cars no matter the badge or type. An exciting car is an exciting car there are no two ways about it.
This is why it upsets me that most new cars are paddle shifts because the car itself is FANTASTIC (like this one) and i would love to be able to fantasise about buying one, one day, or as i so often do with cars, imagine what they feel like to drive.
Yet all i can think of when i try to visualise driving a car with paddles down my favourite bit of b-road is wanting for a manual, to blip the incredible engine myself perfect my footwork and laugh out loud as i do it all myself and get it right.
It's strange how the difference between using a stick and pedal combo over using the tips of your fingers evokes such debate as to which is the better drivers experience. On paper the paddles (Sportshift for this forum) are the superior option as the changes are quicker thus provoking the argument that they allow for a superior level of performance and yet the argument still remains that a stick and pedal manual is real driving.This is why it upsets me that most new cars are paddle shifts because the car itself is FANTASTIC (like this one) and i would love to be able to fantasise about buying one, one day, or as i so often do with cars, imagine what they feel like to drive.
Yet all i can think of when i try to visualise driving a car with paddles down my favourite bit of b-road is wanting for a manual, to blip the incredible engine myself perfect my footwork and laugh out loud as i do it all myself and get it right.
Vantagefan said:
It's strange how the difference between using a stick and pedal combo over using the tips of your fingers evokes such debate as to which is the better drivers experience. On paper the paddles (Sportshift for this forum) are the superior option as the changes are quicker thus provoking the argument that they allow for a superior level of performance and yet the argument still remains that a stick and pedal manual is real driving.
I accept that there are many advantages that come with a paddle shift, the main one being speed and smoothness of shift. However the reason i say stick and pedal manuals are still "proper" driving is because to me, speed doesnt come into it and the smoothness should be accounted for by the driver. Driving to me means everything that is exciting about driving, the thrill of driving (excuse the unintentional evo magazine reference) and to me the thrill of driving is largely down to the skill of the drivers inputs making a difference to how the car behaves, goes and reacts.
This requires the driver to acquire and hone certain skills over their lifetime behind the wheel. There is very little skill in pulling paddles towards you at the appropriate moment. Thus taking away a large chunk of the connection between driver inputs and car.
Im not saying paddles dont have a place in modern cars or that they are rubish i just think drivers cars and paddle shifts should be kept appart.
For example i could very much see the attraction of a paddle shift box in a car like an Audi RS6 Avant for example because the whole car is designed for very fast but easy, effortless mile crunching, but then this isnt a "drivers" car its just a perfectly capable comfy and rapid way of getting from a-b.
But please not in an AMV8 or the latest range of Porsche's when they come out next year. PLEASE!
TomTVR500 said:
I accept that there are many advantages that come with a paddle shift, the main one being speed and smoothness of shift. However the reason i say stick and pedal manuals are still "proper" driving is because to me, speed doesnt come into it and the smoothness should be accounted for by the driver.
Driving to me means everything that is exciting about driving, the thrill of driving (excuse the unintentional evo magazine reference) and to me the thrill of driving is largely down to the skill of the drivers inputs making a difference to how the car behaves, goes and reacts.
This requires the driver to acquire and hone certain skills over their lifetime behind the wheel. There is very little skill in pulling paddles towards you at the appropriate moment. Thus taking away a large chunk of the connection between driver inputs and car.
Im not saying paddles dont have a place in modern cars or that they are rubish i just think drivers cars and paddle shifts should be kept appart.
For example i could very much see the attraction of a paddle shift box in a car like an Audi RS6 Avant for example because the whole car is designed for very fast but easy, effortless mile crunching, but then this isnt a "drivers" car its just a perfectly capable comfy and rapid way of getting from a-b.
But please not in an AMV8 or the latest range of Porsche's when they come out next year. PLEASE!
I certainly wasn't attacking the view I just find it interested. Surely the RS6 would suit an automatic gearbox more (which is why it has it) as the feel of the shifts is far smoother when going from a-b. The Sportshift system still thuds the gears into place (in relation) leaving you to concentrate on achieving a good line Driving to me means everything that is exciting about driving, the thrill of driving (excuse the unintentional evo magazine reference) and to me the thrill of driving is largely down to the skill of the drivers inputs making a difference to how the car behaves, goes and reacts.
This requires the driver to acquire and hone certain skills over their lifetime behind the wheel. There is very little skill in pulling paddles towards you at the appropriate moment. Thus taking away a large chunk of the connection between driver inputs and car.
Im not saying paddles dont have a place in modern cars or that they are rubish i just think drivers cars and paddle shifts should be kept appart.
For example i could very much see the attraction of a paddle shift box in a car like an Audi RS6 Avant for example because the whole car is designed for very fast but easy, effortless mile crunching, but then this isnt a "drivers" car its just a perfectly capable comfy and rapid way of getting from a-b.
But please not in an AMV8 or the latest range of Porsche's when they come out next year. PLEASE!
I agree there is a place, on some cars, for both versions of the manual but I can't see 'stick and pedal' lasting much longer to be honest but only because of the versatility of the rival. Having the ability to opt in and out of driver involvement appeases those that want to 'drive' the car on occasions and for when they just want to drive.
TomTVR500 said:
I accept that there are many advantages that come with a paddle shift, the main one being speed and smoothness of shift. However the reason i say stick and pedal manuals are still "proper" driving is because to me, speed doesnt come into it and the smoothness should be accounted for by the driver.
Driving to me means everything that is exciting about driving, the thrill of driving (excuse the unintentional evo magazine reference) and to me the thrill of driving is largely down to the skill of the drivers inputs making a difference to how the car behaves, goes and reacts.
This requires the driver to acquire and hone certain skills over their lifetime behind the wheel. There is very little skill in pulling paddles towards you at the appropriate moment. Thus taking away a large chunk of the connection between driver inputs and car.
Im not saying paddles dont have a place in modern cars or that they are rubish i just think drivers cars and paddle shifts should be kept appart.
For example i could very much see the attraction of a paddle shift box in a car like an Audi RS6 Avant for example because the whole car is designed for very fast but easy, effortless mile crunching, but then this isnt a "drivers" car its just a perfectly capable comfy and rapid way of getting from a-b.
But please not in an AMV8 or the latest range of Porsche's when they come out next year. PLEASE!
Probably the best explanation of my feelings regarding paddle shift that I've read... certainly better than I could write myself.Driving to me means everything that is exciting about driving, the thrill of driving (excuse the unintentional evo magazine reference) and to me the thrill of driving is largely down to the skill of the drivers inputs making a difference to how the car behaves, goes and reacts.
This requires the driver to acquire and hone certain skills over their lifetime behind the wheel. There is very little skill in pulling paddles towards you at the appropriate moment. Thus taking away a large chunk of the connection between driver inputs and car.
Im not saying paddles dont have a place in modern cars or that they are rubish i just think drivers cars and paddle shifts should be kept appart.
For example i could very much see the attraction of a paddle shift box in a car like an Audi RS6 Avant for example because the whole car is designed for very fast but easy, effortless mile crunching, but then this isnt a "drivers" car its just a perfectly capable comfy and rapid way of getting from a-b.
But please not in an AMV8 or the latest range of Porsche's when they come out next year. PLEASE!
K50 DEL said:
TomTVR500 said:
I accept that there are many advantages that come with a paddle shift, the main one being speed and smoothness of shift. However the reason i say stick and pedal manuals are still "proper" driving is because to me, speed doesnt come into it and the smoothness should be accounted for by the driver.
Driving to me means everything that is exciting about driving, the thrill of driving (excuse the unintentional evo magazine reference) and to me the thrill of driving is largely down to the skill of the drivers inputs making a difference to how the car behaves, goes and reacts.
This requires the driver to acquire and hone certain skills over their lifetime behind the wheel. There is very little skill in pulling paddles towards you at the appropriate moment. Thus taking away a large chunk of the connection between driver inputs and car.
Im not saying paddles dont have a place in modern cars or that they are rubish i just think drivers cars and paddle shifts should be kept appart.
For example i could very much see the attraction of a paddle shift box in a car like an Audi RS6 Avant for example because the whole car is designed for very fast but easy, effortless mile crunching, but then this isnt a "drivers" car its just a perfectly capable comfy and rapid way of getting from a-b.
But please not in an AMV8 or the latest range of Porsche's when they come out next year. PLEASE!
Probably the best explanation of my feelings regarding paddle shift that I've read... certainly better than I could write myself.Driving to me means everything that is exciting about driving, the thrill of driving (excuse the unintentional evo magazine reference) and to me the thrill of driving is largely down to the skill of the drivers inputs making a difference to how the car behaves, goes and reacts.
This requires the driver to acquire and hone certain skills over their lifetime behind the wheel. There is very little skill in pulling paddles towards you at the appropriate moment. Thus taking away a large chunk of the connection between driver inputs and car.
Im not saying paddles dont have a place in modern cars or that they are rubish i just think drivers cars and paddle shifts should be kept appart.
For example i could very much see the attraction of a paddle shift box in a car like an Audi RS6 Avant for example because the whole car is designed for very fast but easy, effortless mile crunching, but then this isnt a "drivers" car its just a perfectly capable comfy and rapid way of getting from a-b.
But please not in an AMV8 or the latest range of Porsche's when they come out next year. PLEASE!
My previous car was an Audi S5 S-Tronic, powerful but featuring VAG's awesome double-clutch gearbox, an almost perfect example of effortless and perfectly smooth gear changes with almost no driver input. While that was fantastic in its style, the V8V gearbox is a whole different kettle of fish. I'm not going to claim to be the smoothest driver, I try my best but it's not a case of pulling the paddle and it's done; you have to get the timing right, do it in an appropriate place, working the accelerator correctly on changes. Every now and then I do a bad change and the whole car jumps and cue the instinctive apology to the passenger - something that's impossible to make happen in a double-clutch car these days.
In conclusion, I really like this gearbox, a lot. It's the fun of manual without destroying your ankles in city or traffic jams.
Shmee said:
K50 DEL said:
TomTVR500 said:
There is very little skill in pulling paddles towards you at the appropriate moment.
Probably the best explanation of my feelings regarding paddle shift that I've read... certainly better than I could write myself.My previous car was an Audi S5 S-Tronic, powerful but featuring VAG's awesome double-clutch gearbox, an almost perfect example of effortless and perfectly smooth gear changes with almost no driver input. While that was fantastic in its style, the V8V gearbox is a whole different kettle of fish. I'm not going to claim to be the smoothest driver, I try my best but it's not a case of pulling the paddle and it's done; you have to get the timing right, do it in an appropriate place, working the accelerator correctly on changes. Every now and then I do a bad change and the whole car jumps and cue the instinctive apology to the passenger - something that's impossible to make happen in a double-clutch car these days.
That being the case my conclusions are different from Shmee's: I prefer any of a regular manual, a torque-converter auto or a dual-clutch box to the Sportshift style. But as mentioned earlier I would like to know what the box in the V8VS is like, since others have said it is a major improvement on previous Sportshifts.
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